Forming a Shugden Government to Freedom?

[icy]

When true democracy exists in a government all eligible citizens remain the sovereign power to execute their rights and have active participation in the decision making of electing their representatives or political parties for a ruling government in the country.  As in the case of Tibetans in exile, this will not happen due to the present ban on Dorje Shugden which bought about continuous animosity, disassociation and segregation amongst their fellow men.   It is apparent CTA has abandoned the Shugden community in exile to stand on their own.  The ban means that Shugden practitioners will not be eligible to excercise their rights within the exile community.    Tibetans have since chosen and celebrated democracy hence, it is logically and now time inevitable for Tibetan Shugden practitioners around the world to consider forming its own coalition party to a main governing body for Tibet. 

Statistically there would be about 70% of Tibetan population who practise Dorje Shugden before the ban and after the ban was implemented, there may be a fraction of the population who wore out their allegiance to Lord Shugden.   Considering this statistic to be accurate, and Shugden practitioners are all united to this new formation, Tibetan Shugdens are on the way to a new government. 

Once this new party is formed, the ban on Shugden will automatically fall away.  Apart from gaining religious freedom, the new Shugden government can bring home its people under a friendlier and peaceful circumstance without politics known to be respected by the Chinese just like the Shugden Tibetans in the autonomous regions of Tibet who are enjoying the support of the Chinese.  Isn't this the right way to move forward? Instead of self-immolations, violence, involvement of the CIA in the politics and the like adopted by the CTA which only anger the Chinese and Tibetans will end up losers against the superpower.   Tibetans can win over the Chinese over time through peaceful co-operation.   This has been proven by Shugden Lamas over the last  2 decades.

The Chinese government under President Xi JingPing is more liberal and has indicated the Chinese would like to adopt traditional faiths to counter the moral ills of the country.  This is a positive sign for Buddhism and especially Je Tsongkhapa's teaching to spread across China under this indication.    Therefore, it is timely for  Shugden Lamas and followers to position themselves for King Shugden to swiftly sweep across China with the victory banner for the golden era of Buddhsim to flourish in China.  When this happen in future, wouldn't it be conducive and in the capacity of Tibetans to witness friendlier terms with China?  For all you know, there might be no borders and boundaries, no you and I but one in a peaceful co-existence through the world peace protector.

As I see it, this is the best way to religious freedom for Shugden practitioners and besides is a way to return to Tibet for the Tibetan community in exile around the world with or without the Dalai Lama for He will always remain in the heart of every Tibetan.  So it seems this is the way that is being paved by the Dalai Lama himself working hand in hand with Lord Shugden.  The World Peace Protector is waiting to bring home every Tibetan safely. 

[icy]

Dalai Lama: China 'softening' on Tibet

•   Published: 14 Nov 2013 at 16.12
•   Online news: Asia
The new Chinese leadership under President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Li Keqiang and the modern-day Chinese intelligentsia are more receptive to the Tibetan cause and Tibetans' demand for high-level autonomy, exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said on Thursday.

The Dalai Lama said that lately more Chinese intellectuals, retired government officials, and writers have started supporting his middle-way approach of seeing more autonomy for Tibet and therefore feels that the hardliners in China are "feeling isolated".

"I feel many Chinese people, writers are supporting our middle-way approach. In a way, the hard-liners among the Chinese officials now seem becoming more isolated," he stated in an exclusive interview with Kyodo News one day ahead of his scheduled visit to Japan.

"Many intellectuals, writers, army officials, senior officials are not supporting the hard-liner approach. They are for something practical, they feel the hard-liner approach as not good for the long run, so things are changing," he added.

Asking the Chinese leadership to preserve the Tibetan language and culture in Tibet, the spiritual leader said that his time-tested middle-way approach of asking for autonomy, and not complete independence, is best suited for Tibetans.

Regarding the increasing number of self-immolations by Tibetan youths, he said that instead of blaming him for such incidents the Chinese administration must investigate the causes or reasons behind such cases. He further stated that his fellow Tibetans were living in an "unbearable situation" in Tibet, and that he felt helpless as he did not have anything to offer to them.

In a message to the people in northeastern Japan still enduring difficult conditions since the 2011 earthquake and tsunami disaster, he said that the Japanese are determined and hard-working people, and that he was confident they would rebuild their homes with strong determination.



The Dalai Lama said China is becoming more receptive to Tibetans' demand for autonomy.  Does this mean this is the sign for Tibetans returning to Tibet is near?  What will happen to Tibetan Shugden practitioners since they have been ostracised? It would be smart for CTA to lift the ban now and join forces to negotiate their terms with China on their return.  CTA will utterly be absurd and ridiculously cartoonish if they do not lift the ban but force Shugden practitioners to form their own government to negotiate for their own return to Tibet ahead of the CTA. 

[sandra]

I always believe in united theory. I think if CTA could lift the ban and make the whole Tibetans united, there will be best formation could negotiate with Chinese Government. To lift the ban is a way ahead to religious freedom for everybody. This can promote sentiment of democracy and install peace in Tibetan. Over the time, Tibetans and Chinese can also work together for peace.

[Galen]

Dalai Lama: China 'softening' on Tibet

•   Published: 14 Nov 2013 at 16.12
•   Online news: Asia
The new Chinese leadership under President Xi Jinping and Prime Minister Li Keqiang and the modern-day Chinese intelligentsia are more receptive to the Tibetan cause and Tibetans' demand for high-level autonomy, exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said on Thursday.

The Dalai Lama said that lately more Chinese intellectuals, retired government officials, and writers have started supporting his middle-way approach of seeing more autonomy for Tibet and therefore feels that the hardliners in China are "feeling isolated".

"I feel many Chinese people, writers are supporting our middle-way approach. In a way, the hard-liners among the Chinese officials now seem becoming more isolated," he stated in an exclusive interview with Kyodo News one day ahead of his scheduled visit to Japan.

"Many intellectuals, writers, army officials, senior officials are not supporting the hard-liner approach. They are for something practical, they feel the hard-liner approach as not good for the long run, so things are changing," he added.

Asking the Chinese leadership to preserve the Tibetan language and culture in Tibet, the spiritual leader said that his time-tested middle-way approach of asking for autonomy, and not complete independence, is best suited for Tibetans.

Regarding the increasing number of self-immolations by Tibetan youths, he said that instead of blaming him for such incidents the Chinese administration must investigate the causes or reasons behind such cases. He further stated that his fellow Tibetans were living in an "unbearable situation" in Tibet, and that he felt helpless as he did not have anything to offer to them.

In a message to the people in northeastern Japan still enduring difficult conditions since the 2011 earthquake and tsunami disaster, he said that the Japanese are determined and hard-working people, and that he was confident they would rebuild their homes with strong determination.



The Dalai Lama said China is becoming more receptive to Tibetans' demand for autonomy.  Does this mean this is the sign for Tibetans returning to Tibet is near?  What will happen to Tibetan Shugden practitioners since they have been ostracised? It would be smart for CTA to lift the ban now and join forces to negotiate their terms with China on their return.  CTA will utterly be absurd and ridiculously cartoonish if they do not lift the ban but force Shugden practitioners to form their own government to negotiate for their own return to Tibet ahead of the CTA. 

As of now, Tibet has already have their representative in the Chinese Government. So, what difference does it make for the Tibetans? Basically any Tibetan outside Tibet can just walk back into Tibet and lead a normal life without having to be discriminated upon. The Tibetan cause has changed and the people fighting for the independence does feel short changed because the cause is now different.

It is good news that China is more and more receptive to the CTA having the middle way, but the question remains that if China does accept the CTA for any reasons, will the Dalai Lam lift the ban???

[Matibhadra]

To lift the ban is a way ahead to religious freedom for everybody. This can promote sentiment of democracy and install peace in Tibetan. Over the time, Tibetans and Chinese can also work together for peace.

The problem is that “religious freedom for everybody”, “democracy”, “peace,” and “Tibetans and Chinese working together for peace” is precisely what the Dalai and his Western masters do not want and never wanted.

They want, and will always try their best, to install chaos, division, and social, ethnic and religious rift in the country -- the standard Western method to bring a country to its knees, thus allowing for easy Western domination. This is precisely what they are trying to do right now in Syria and Myanmar, for example.

The ban against the practice of Dorje Shugden, which is implemented by the Dalai with the full knowledge and compliance of his Western bosses and the Western press, is just one part of the general chaos aimed at by the neo-colonizers. Whenever possible, they will bring Muslims against Buddhists, Khampas against Central Tibetans, Tibetans against Han and Hui Chinese, Nyingmapas against Gelugpas, and so forth.

Did you ever ask yourself why the Western or pro-Western “free” press systematically silences about the ban, when does not outrightly attack Dorje Shugden lamas, centers and practitioners (as, by the way, The Times of India is doing right now)?

The Western imperialistic colonizer hatred against Dorje Shugden tradition and respective lamas and institutions goes down at least to the time of the foremost Dorje Shugden proponent, Pabongkha Rinpoche, who refused to participate in the wholesale delivery of his country into the hands of the British colonizers, forwarded by the previous 13th Dalai.

Thanks to the current Dalai's stubborn subservience to Western imperialistic powers and policies, he the current Dalai is not part of any solution, but only part of the problem to be solved. Only Westerners in the control of, or brainwashed by, the Western organized war propaganda machine (the so-called “free press”) still think that he has any positive contribution to offer to the Tibetan people.

[WisdomBeing]

Did you ever ask yourself why the Western or pro-Western “free” press systematically silences about the ban, when does not outrightly attack Dorje Shugden lamas, centers and practitioners (as, by the way, The Times of India is doing right now)?

Could you please let me know which Times of India article you are referring to? And yes it has been a continuous conundrum to me why the western press has been reasonably silent on this. Perhaps the western press would not like their poster boy for 'world peace' and thorn in China's side to be dethroned. I know all the western press crave a hot story and what could be more hot than the Dalai Lama imposing apartheid on his own people? Yet there is simply silence, which must be orchestrated from above. All these ridiculous shenanigans are staged purely for political and economic gain and the common people simply suffer in silence.

[dondrup]

When true democracy exists in a government all eligible citizens remain the sovereign power to execute their rights and have active participation in the decision making of electing their representatives or political parties for a ruling government in the country.  As in the case of Tibetans in exile, this will not happen due to the present ban on Dorje Shugden which bought about continuous animosity, disassociation and segregation amongst their fellow men.   It is apparent CTA has abandoned the Shugden community in exile to stand on their own.  The ban means that Shugden practitioners will not be eligible to excercise their rights within the exile community.    Tibetans have since chosen and celebrated democracy hence, it is logically and now time inevitable for Tibetan Shugden practitioners around the world to consider forming its own coalition party to a main governing body for Tibet. 

Statistically there would be about 70% of Tibetan population who practise Dorje Shugden before the ban and after the ban was implemented, there may be a fraction of the population who wore out their allegiance to Lord Shugden.   Considering this statistic to be accurate, and Shugden practitioners are all united to this new formation, Tibetan Shugdens are on the way to a new government. 

Once this new party is formed, the ban on Shugden will automatically fall away.  Apart from gaining religious freedom, the new Shugden government can bring home its people under a friendlier and peaceful circumstance without politics known to be respected by the Chinese just like the Shugden Tibetans in the autonomous regions of Tibet who are enjoying the support of the Chinese.  Isn't this the right way to move forward? Instead of self-immolations, violence, involvement of the CIA in the politics and the like adopted by the CTA which only anger the Chinese and Tibetans will end up losers against the superpower.   Tibetans can win over the Chinese over time through peaceful co-operation.   This has been proven by Shugden Lamas over the last  2 decades.

The Chinese government under President Xi JingPing is more liberal and has indicated the Chinese would like to adopt traditional faiths to counter the moral ills of the country.  This is a positive sign for Buddhism and especially Je Tsongkhapa's teaching to spread across China under this indication.    Therefore, it is timely for  Shugden Lamas and followers to position themselves for King Shugden to swiftly sweep across China with the victory banner for the golden era of Buddhsim to flourish in China.  When this happen in future, wouldn't it be conducive and in the capacity of Tibetans to witness friendlier terms with China?  For all you know, there might be no borders and boundaries, no you and I but one in a peaceful co-existence through the world peace protector.

As I see it, this is the best way to religious freedom for Shugden practitioners and besides is a way to return to Tibet for the Tibetan community in exile around the world with or without the Dalai Lama for He will always remain in the heart of every Tibetan.  So it seems this is the way that is being paved by the Dalai Lama himself working hand in hand with Lord Shugden.  The World Peace Protector is waiting to bring home every Tibetan safely.

I like the idea of forming a new political party consisting of the Tibetans in exile who practise Dorje Shugden.  Perhaps this may be the only way forward for the Tibetans who had not only lost their country but also their religious freedom?

Since the time when Tibet was lost to China, we have not seen any progress or milestone achieved by the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) for the independence of Tibet from China.  Furthermore, CTA had become worst since the ban on Dorje Shugden was instigated! CTA had discriminated against its own citizen who did nothing wrong but had chosen to practise their religion - a right enshrined in the Constitution of the Tibetans in Exile. 

If CTA had really adopted democracy, it should allow this political party to contest in the election and to form a new and fairer government for the wellbeing and future of all the Tibetans.  Also forming a "Shugden" political party is the only way to wrest back the power from the CTA who does not adopt true democracy, had abused its power and had accomplished nothing significant for the Tibetans.  CTA had not upheld and protected the right of every Tibetan in Exile especially the Tibetans who follow Dorje Shugden.

No government in the World stays in power forever!  Look at the history of China, over the last five thousand years of its history, many kingdoms and governments had collapsed! Its political system had changed and evolved many times. In the future we may never know, China may become a full democracy and abandon communism altogether.  If Tibetans are part of China now, in time, the Tibetans can work their way up to be represented in the Chinese government and ensure the voice of the Tibetans to be heard!

We know the truth shall prevail and the ban on Dorje Shugden lifted in the future.  But why do the Tibetans in exiles (especially the Dorje Shugden followers) still want to be subjected to CTA and not form a better and fairer government for their future now?  Liberation is in the palm of your hands not CTA or HH Dalai Lama!

[brian]

I always believe in united theory. I think if CTA could lift the ban and make the whole Tibetans united, there will be best formation could negotiate with Chinese Government. To lift the ban is a way ahead to religious freedom for everybody. This can promote sentiment of democracy and install peace in Tibetan. Over the time, Tibetans and Chinese can also work together for peace.

religious freedom should be promoted everywhere and should not be only applicable to some ethnics and not another ethnic. We cannot force people into believing into something they won't be able to understand or doesn't believe. Lifting the ban will be the only way i see that can benefit towards the cause of making the world a better place and the ultimate dream of every devotee gets to practice the sacred practice of Dorje Shugden.

[Manjushri]

Actually, since HHDL has resigned from active politics and Lobsang Sangey has stepped into position as Kalon Tripa, politics and religion should not mix. So what does the ban imposed by HHDL for spiritual and religious purposes have anything to do with politics since HHDL's actions to step away from politics is clearly not to incorporate them together. Therefore, there is no basis that Shugden practitioners cannot form a government by themselves or actually, to even be included into the CTA, though I doubt they'd want to do that.

If the reports are true that China is softening on Tibet, they should capitalize on that in that they should work together to regain strength and support. Shugden lamas can maybe join forces with China and perhaps China could give them authority to have Tibet rise again. Ok. I'm being delusional.

[Matibhadra]

Could you please let me know which Times of India article you are referring to?

This article: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-07-10/india/40491361_1_tibetan-community-central-tibetan-dorje-shugden, which is also the subject of this thread: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4430.0

And yes it has been a continuous conundrum to me why the western press has been reasonably silent on this. Perhaps the western press would not like their poster boy for 'world peace' and thorn in China's side to be dethroned. I know all the western press crave a hot story and what could be more hot than the Dalai Lama imposing apartheid on his own people? Yet there is simply silence, which must be orchestrated from above.  All these ridiculous shenanigans are staged purely for political and economic gain and the common people simply suffer in silence.

This somehow shows that the hostility against Dorje Shugden comes not only from the side of the Dalai and his Nyingmapa and rime medieval witch-hunting sectarianist associates, but also from their bosses, the Westerner imperialists, themselves already unhappy since the 30s of the last century with the good relationship between Pabongkha Rinpoche and the patriotic warlord Liu Wenhui, a major obstacle to the British penetration into Tibet.

The Dalai-Nyingma-Western anti-Dorje Shugden axis obviously continues unabated nowadays, as exemplified by the silence of Western press about the anti-Shugden apartheid and by the hatred shown by Western academia towards everything related to Pabongkha Rinpoche or Dorje Shugden.

[icy]

This somehow shows that the hostility against Dorje Shugden comes not only from the side of the Dalai and his Nyingmapa and rime medieval witch-hunting sectarianist associates, but also from their bosses, the Westerner imperialists, themselves already unhappy since the 30s of the last century with the good relationship between Pabongkha Rinpoche and the patriotic warlord Liu Wenhui, a major obstacle to the British penetration into Tibet.

The Dalai-Nyingma-Western anti-Dorje Shugden axis obviously continues unabated nowadays, as exemplified by the silence of Western press about the anti-Shugden apartheid and by the hatred shown by Western academia towards everything related to Pabongkha Rinpoche or Dorje Shugden.

If this is true, it is a dangerous political game played by the Westerner imperialists who uses religion for their own end.  How did you learn about this political history, jspitanga?

[Matibhadra]

Hi icy, you say

If this is true, it is a dangerous political game played by the Westerner imperialists who uses religion for their own end.

Yes, I think so. And, being so, just business as usual.

How did you learn about this political history, jspitanga?

Usually the best and most practical informants are the detractors of Pabongkha Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden themselves, as are most Western historians dealing with the topic. They give all the clues, one just has to invert the signs. It 's a bit like learning about the “pagans” from Christian sources, or about the victim from the murderer.

[WisdomBeing]

The Western alliance needs HH the Dalai Lama as their puppet figurehead against the inexorable rise of China. Hence the Nobel Prize was awarded to him for no real reason. Since the Western alliance needs the Dalai Lama, they need to support the Dalai Lama's stance on everything, ergo the anti-Shugden stance and hardly any criticism of this icon of world peace for his ridiculous and illogical apartheid-like edict on Shugden practitioners. The more the Dalai Lama is anti-Shugden, the more China is supportive of Shugden and the Western governments dancee along accordingly - and so the power play goes on.

Going to the spiritual side of things however, since it has been prophesied that Dorje Shugden will become the Protector of our Time, it is only a matter of time that the ban will be lifted or fade. I am watching avidly to see when and what will happen.

[icy]

Going to the spiritual side of things however, since it has been prophesied that Dorje Shugden will become the Protector of our Time, it is only a matter of time that the ban will be lifted or fade. I am watching avidly to see when and what will happen.

Definitely the ban will have to fade soon, there is no doubt about it.  From the point of the number of Tibetan Shugden practitioners in exile, they are the majority forming the Tibetan community in exile.  Hence how can CTA represent the Tibetans when they are the minority. 

When Shugden practitioners continually have to experience the prosecution and segregation all these years, certainly there will be a reaction to the point they have to form their own party to take the matter onto their own hands.  When this happens CTA will be powerless and regret for not lifting the ban earlier and uniting the Tibetans.