The Dalai Lama says his Gurus are WRONG!

[icy]

The Dalai Lama says his Gurus are WRONG	Small | Large

This is highly serious and dangerous statement by the Dalai Lama.  It is tantamount to saying that the Guru Tree is decaying.   Is the Dalai Lama saying that the Guru Tree has no credibility or authencity?  If so the whole gelug lineage is crumbling down like a crumble pie. 

The Dalai lama is being hilariously playful to mention that his Gurus are WRONG!  If his gurus are wrong is the Dalai Lama implying that his recognition is also mistaken and that what he is teaching is also incorrect and invalid?  Every action has a reaction and would cause a domino effect of the gelug lineage to tumble down to nothingness.   When one meditates logically on the statement by the Dalai Lama, one would achieve nothingness not emptiness.

Please read my comment in conjuction with:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/

[Rinchen]

It is just really scary to hear that. If it is really that the Dalai Lama's gurus are wrong, then who will be correct? If Dalai Lama's gurus are wrong, the knowledge that is being passed down to the Dalai Lama would also be wrong. It would not make sense to say that the Dalai Lama is correct as the knowledge that the Dalai Lama now has is being passed down to H.H from his gurus that are WRONG.

So if that is the case, who should we be learning Buddhism from? Wouldn't that make all masters wrong and what we know about Buddhism now all wrong?

[vajratruth]

Not only has the Dalai Lama said that his gurus were wrong. Recently at Sera, the Dalai Lama went as far as to say that the recognition and enthronement of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen as the reincarnation of Panchen Sonam Drakpa was due to the manipulation of Tulku Drakpa's mother [http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/27-minute-speech/ ]

Seeing that the recognition of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen was confirmed and accepted by the first Panchen Lama Lobsang Chokyi Gyaltsen, the Dalai Lama is also saying that the reincarnation line of Khedrub Je which is the Panchen Lama's line, is also wrong.

In addition, seeing that the great 16th Karmapa Rangjung Rigpe Dorje spoke in defense of the importance if Dorje Shugden (the 16th Karmapa gave the following prediction to the Nyingmas at the monastery: “You will have no choice in the future but to practice this protector; there will come a time when you need him”), it would also mean that he too was wrong by the Dalai Lama's definition.

So literally all the greatest of Tibetan Masters in history need to have made the same mistakes about Dorje Shugden in order for the Dalai Lama's own claim to have any substance. What an incredible fantasy we are being asked to believe!

[Rihanna]

No, you've gotta to be kidding! This must be a prank! HHDL says his Gurus are wrong?!?! If his Gurus are wrong , then whatever HHDL has been propagating and teaching for these last few decades must be wrong! If his Gurus are wrong, then his Guru's guru must be wrong too and so does the entire lineage all the way up to Lama Tsongkhapa. Which means Lama Tsongkhapa is wrong too! There goes the whole Gelugpa tradition then!

HHDL gave two day teaching on Tsongkhapa's "Three Principal Aspects of the Path" & "Foundation of All Good Qualities" given at the request of a group from Mongolia at the Kempinski Hotel in New Delhi, India on December 2-3, 2013. I feel sorry then for all those who attended to be thought the wrong doctrine then.

[AnneQ]

Actually I am not surprised that HHDL would come up with a statement like this, if it was true he really meant it. The way I see it, this whole exercise of banning the DS practice which all the past great lineage Gurus have practiced before, not excluding HHDL's own root Guru, really only serves to nullify the whole Gelug school lineage teachings of Tibetan Buddhism. So to say his Gurus are wrong is really consistent with advocating the DS ban. Which to say the least ironic and at best ridiculous. So I beg the question: " What really is the Dalai Lama up to???"

[pgdharma]

Is this a joke??? If his Gurus are wrong than his Guru's gurus are also wrong and the whole lineage Gurus are all wrong too. So  his recognition is wrong and all the teachings that HHDL received from his Gurus are all wrong and his teachings are invalid. This is so ridiculous!

[dsiluvu]

Yes when the Dalai Lama says this, He is literally putting the whole Guru Tree down and in retrospect the Dalai Lama was saying He is also wrong because everything He was taught came from His Gurus. We cannot be selective and say the Guru was right about this subject but wrong about the other one, in Vajrayana Buddhism, the concept on relying upon one's Guru and the "samaya" relation with one's Guru is huge and sacred, it's not like a normal Guru that teaches us in our secular world, we're talking about fully attained/enlightened masters who have achieved Bodhicitta. So in fact HHDL has severed His samaya with His Guru whom he publicly announced that is wrong. This means all the teachings HH received are false and would have no effect and if that is the case, the Dalai Lama should not be giving any teachings to anyone and should refrain from giving empowerments, because it is false and there will not be any blessings from the lineage masters due to broken samaya. This is very dangerous as we all know it can put teacher and student's life and practice at jeopardy.

Yes this is a huge joke since day one of Him saying this and this is a fact because if HH was not just making it up, then why would He wish to invite HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche to the Lamrim teachings and why would He even allowed HH Trijang Rinpoche to practice Dorje Shugden and only Trijang RInpoche is only allowed? That is all a bunch of baloney and those in Dharma will all know and those who don't know the Dharma like the common Tibetan folks. This goes to show many Tibetans have know real knowledge of Dharma... in this way Buddhism is dragged down and destroyed from common superstitious beliefs instead from real evidence and knowledge.   

[rossoneri]

This is very serious. Although HHTDL is jokingly saying it during the interview but the result is endless. If his Gurus were wrong does it mean that His reincarnation and him being The Dalai lama could be wrong as well? Does it mean the previous reincarnation of Trijang Rinpoche is a mistake as well? The whole system and all the schools of Buddhist in Tibet can be wrong too. Whatever they have been practicing for generations, all the gurus, masters and the Buddha Himself can be wrong too. Does not make sense.

[Manisha Kudo]

The Dalai Lama's claims that his Gurus were wrong are obviously interpreted as a fallacy. How could he! Please allow me to play the devil's advocate for 10 sec. If the DL is wrong, then, what makes of his other actions, his leadership, his enthronement and the great lamas who recognized his incarnation? Were they wrong too in recognizing and appointing a DL who in the future would fault his own teachers? But we can of course counter argue by stating that the DL is enlightened and we simply cannot understand fully the extent of his actions. 

[lotus1]

In Vajrayana traditions, Guru plays a very important role in our spiritual journey and we are always taught that Guru devotion is very important. Guru guides us and teaches us with all they have for us to be enlightened. HH Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader in the Tibetan Buddhism. Why would he not know about Guru devotion and why would he say all his Gurus are wrong?? Very contradicting....

[brian]

If Dalai Lama's Gurus are wrong, then what about Dalai Lama himself? Does that mean He is wrong to as he picked up all the teachings from His Gurus.... (!)

[Big Uncle]

If Dalai Lama's Gurus are wrong, then what about Dalai Lama himself? Does that mean He is wrong to as he picked up all the teachings from His Gurus.... (!)

Yes! That statement is tantamount to the Dalai Lama saying that he is wrong too especially on the matter of Dorje Shugden. If his Guru is fallible so can he be fallible. People and scholars have been speculating as to why the Dalai Lama have made such an drastic almost anti-Buddhist statement. The results almost always seem to point towards politics and his drive towards using the Dorje Shugden as a unifying factor because Dorje Shugden practitioners is seen to be sectarian. That is of course not true. There are practitioners of Dorje Shugden across all Tibetan tradition and only if we choose to receive life-entrustment initiation of Dorje Shugden from the Gelug tradition, there's a requirement to be loyal to the teachings of the tradition. This is not sectarian but only logical as it fosters samaya and practice. So what other possible reasons could the Dalai Lama be enforcing the ban for?

[fruven]

It is kind of confusing that the HH Dalai Lama can know his gurus make a mistake to practice Dorje Shugden while his guru is being unaware of it. This is no laughing matter. How would we know that his gurus make some other mistakes as well which HH Dalai Lama learn from his gurus?

[yontenjamyang]

This is very serious. If the Dalai Lama says his Gurus are wrong then all the practices of that is transmitted from his Gurus to him is invalid. They are wrong, then all the other lineage masters from his Gurus' lineage including the Dalai Lama's lineage are invalid and basically the entire Gelug lineage is in jeopardy.
If his Gurus are wrong then, there have taken refuge with a spirit and are now in the hells. So the tulkus of his Gurus are fake. But the Dalai Lama recognizes them??!! So the Dalai Lama is also wrong! So if he is wrong and he says his Gurus are wrong, can be believe him?

[icy]

The Dalai Lama says we must be kind.  We must certainly extend this kindness to all our lineage masters including Trijang Rinpoche.  By saying they are wrong about Dorje Shugden means defamation.  This would also mean that we can no longer have faith in the Buddhadharma.  What they taught can be wrong and invalid and is destructive. 

Dalai Lama has to retract on what he had said to restore faith and destruction.