Dalai Lama begins Lam Rim Teachings in South India

[icy]

Does anyone know if Shugden practitioners are allow to attend His Holiness the Dalai Lama Laim Rim teachings in South India?  Or any Shugden practitioners wish to attend the teachings?


DHARAMSHALA, December 26: The Tibetan spiritual leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama yesterday began a week-long teachings on the 18 Great Stages of the Path (Lam Rim) commentaries at Sera Monastery in south Indian state of Karnataka, home to some of the largest Tibetan refugee settlements in India.

The teachings have been requested by His Eminence Ling Choktrul Rinpoche and Gaden Shartse Monastery.

The Tibetan spiritual leader advised his disciples to set a proper motivation whatsoever the topic of discourse is.

“It’s not enough to take refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha only for this life, or for the good of the next life, or even to attain liberation; we need to take refuge until the attainment of complete enlightenment. The verse we recite includes the word ‘I’, when we say ‘may I attain enlightenment’. What we have to do is examine whether that I or self exists the way it appears.”

Explaining the drawbacks of having an undisciplined mind and the advantages of taming it, His Holiness reiterated that every human being wants happiness and does not want suffering.

"Taming the mind is what we need to do to fulfill our wish for happiness, not to please anyone else. The mind is clouded by a misconception that things have true existence, to overcome which we need to understand selflessness. And in order to overcome self-centeredness, loving kindness is not enough; we need to develop the awakening mind of Bodhichitta.

“Therefore, we need to make the most of our human intelligence and develop a warm heart.

His Holiness spoke about the qualities of a spiritual master and concentrations or the development of a calmly abiding mind.

“Human beings are social animals who depend on each other for survival. But perhaps because they are too intelligent, they tend to disregard the community and adopt a self-centered point of view. Curiously, children are not like this, having little sense of racial or class distinctions, which we seem to acquire as we grow up. We need to act more responsibly,” said 78-year-old Tibetan Nobel laureate.

“Life is precious, but one of our errors is clinging to it as if it’s permanent. The solution is to think about the nine point analysis with its three main headings: death is certain, when death will strike is unknown and the only thing of worth at the time of death is our experience of the Dharma. Even conditions conducive of life can change and become causes of death.”

Around 30,000 people are attending the teachings which is live webcast on the official website of the Tibetan leader with simultaneous translations in English, Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian and Mongolian.

[Lineageholder]

Why would you want to receive lamrim teachings from someone who has gone against their Spiritual Guide and even declared that he is wrong?  What virtue can there be in following someone like that?

[dsiluvu]

I don't know if Shugden practitioners were allowed or if any would want to even go if allowed... However check this out and listen to Great Stages of the Path (Lam Rim) Commentaries - Session 5 http://new.livestream.com/DalaiLama/lamrim-english from 01:01:00 onwards what HHDL is saying about His Nyingma practice, and about His Dorje Shugden practice. HH mentioned He did not simple just stop the practice based on a whim but actually did a doh ball divination in front of Avalokiteshvara statue. He also mentioned when the divination came yes to stop DS practice immediately, he got news from Trijang Rinpoche that Palden Lhamo was upset but says He will not go in to details on this! I wonder why was Palden Lhamo so upset about!

The basis of HH entire speech was we cannot be "sectarian" and cause "discrimination" on to other Vajrayana traditions, and HH felt bad He could not attend to some people who have requested Him for help because they were from other traditions.... This sounds really weird, would could he not attend to them? Did Tsongkhapa say you can only help those in Gelug tradition? I never heard of this nonsense at all! The whole thing felt like a huge excuse, or a cover up using "sectarianism" as the main point of why Dorje Shugden practice is not good when this is obvious not the case because even Dorje Shugden himself has helped many people in different traditions before. If there was a political rift and sectarianism between people in different traditions, it is the people who should be corrected and not the practice of an entire lineage. Besides what is so wrong if some of us wishes to just stick with our own lineage and master it? We can't even master 1, why do we need to study another for?

If HHDL decides He wants to study another tradition and got the approval from His teachers, then that is fine, and not a problem, why make all Dorje Shugden practitioners' issue???  As HH mentioned Je Tsongkhapa himself studied from all the other schools and condensed the essence of each tradition in to what we call Gelug, shows clearly Gelug tradition is from and hence not sectarian. So that means Dorje Shugden is literally the protector of all traditions, protecting the purest and the best teachings from all traditions which is found in the Gelug. Hence what's the PROBLEM?!

If people do not wish to learn from another teacher in another tradition, let them be. If they want to and their Guru permits, so be it... trust in one's Guru to know if you can or cannot handle it. If the Guru says NO, you cannot learn from another tradition and pollute our tradition, perhaps the Guru can see right through you that you will end up mixed up and instead of the teachings benefiting you, it may bring you harm or confuse you even more. That is why we have a Guru to guide us, no? If you do not agree with your Guru and wish to challenge His decision, then why on earth have a Guru in the first place, you are right and you know it all then. It's not that the Guru is sectarian, it's because the Guru wishes to protect your mind!

So for those so called "Gelugpas" who caused trouble and created actions that are not Dharmic or disrespectful to other traditions, we can question them, discipline them and help them stop discrimination and quietly do their practice instead of just dismissing a protector's practice of over 300 years that has brought benefit to many. That's stereotyping and banning the practice, this itself is being sectarian and discrimination! Why can't those who wish to remain "pure" in their lineage be left to do so peacefully? Why so much drama? Not everyone needs to follow HHDL decision and choices, why impose your views on to others by force? Sounds off and like a huge cover up... it's like the pot calling the kettle black!

[Rihanna]

I have just finished watching 4 video via webcast on HHDL teachings in Sera.

HH mentioned he felt bad He could not attend to some people who have requested Him for help because they were from other traditions. Does this not contravene with the 35th Boddhisattva vows: Neglect to help whoever needs assistance???

Another thing that came up to my mind is, in every teachings/assembly of sanghas, the issue of Dorje Shugden is much talked about. Dorje Shugden issue is given much attention and prominence. AND NOW they even publish a book about Dorje Shugden. I have known of simple lay people who , when disturbed by a spirit, they scream their heads off to the spirit and that is the last they see of the spirit. I wonder why after decades, Dorje Shugden the spirit, as they claim he is, is still 'the star of the show'. Just yell and scream at him and have him out of the way is he is such an evil spirit!

[lotus1]

I don't know if Shugden practitioners were allowed or if any would want to even go if allowed... However check this out and listen to Great Stages of the Path (Lam Rim) Commentaries - Session 5 http://new.livestream.com/DalaiLama/lamrim-english from 01:01:00 onwards what HHDL is saying about His Nyingma practice, and about His Dorje Shugden practice. HH mentioned He did not simple just stop the practice based on a whim but actually did a doh ball divination in front of Avalokiteshvara statue. He also mentioned when the divination came yes to stop DS practice immediately, he got news from Trijang Rinpoche that Palden Lhamo was upset but says He will not go in to details on this! I wonder why was Palden Lhamo so upset about!

The basis of HH entire speech was we cannot be "sectarian" and cause "discrimination" on to other Vajrayana traditions, and HH felt bad He could not attend to some people who have requested Him for help because they were from other traditions.... This sounds really weird, would could he not attend to them? Did Tsongkhapa say you can only help those in Gelug tradition? I never heard of this nonsense at all! The whole thing felt like a huge excuse, or a cover up using "sectarianism" as the main point of why Dorje Shugden practice is not good when this is obvious not the case because even Dorje Shugden himself has helped many people in different traditions before. If there was a political rift and sectarianism between people in different traditions, it is the people who should be corrected and not the practice of an entire lineage. Besides what is so wrong if some of us wishes to just stick with our own lineage and master it? We can't even master 1, why do we need to study another for?

If HHDL decides He wants to study another tradition and got the approval from His teachers, then that is fine, and not a problem, why make all Dorje Shugden practitioners' issue???  As HH mentioned Je Tsongkhapa himself studied from all the other schools and condensed the essence of each tradition in to what we call Gelug, shows clearly Gelug tradition is from and hence not sectarian. So that means Dorje Shugden is literally the protector of all traditions, protecting the purest and the best teachings from all traditions which is found in the Gelug. Hence what's the PROBLEM?!

If people do not wish to learn from another teacher in another tradition, let them be. If they want to and their Guru permits, so be it... trust in one's Guru to know if you can or cannot handle it. If the Guru says NO, you cannot learn from another tradition and pollute our tradition, perhaps the Guru can see right through you that you will end up mixed up and instead of the teachings benefiting you, it may bring you harm or confuse you even more. That is why we have a Guru to guide us, no? If you do not agree with your Guru and wish to challenge His decision, then why on earth have a Guru in the first place, you are right and you know it all then. It's not that the Guru is sectarian, it's because the Guru wishes to protect your mind!

So for those so called "Gelugpas" who caused trouble and created actions that are not Dharmic or disrespectful to other traditions, we can question them, discipline them and help them stop discrimination and quietly do their practice instead of just dismissing a protector's practice of over 300 years that has brought benefit to many. That's stereotyping and banning the practice, this itself is being sectarian and discrimination! Why can't those who wish to remain "pure" in their lineage be left to do so peacefully? Why so much drama? Not everyone needs to follow HHDL decision and choices, why impose your views on to others by force? Sounds off and like a huge cover up... it's like the pot calling the kettle black!

My questions is that the practices of Dorje Shugden is practiced and passed down since the 5th Dalai Lama, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, HH Trijang Rinpoche, etc. Can it be just stopped like that? If just stopped like that, does it mean it is not following the Guru’s instruction? If not following the Guru’s teaching, it would mean breaking the Samaya. So, is HH Dalai Lama’s teaching still pure?

Besides, if Dorje Shugden is an evil spirits, and praying to him is equal to praying to a spirit, which destroys the basis of our most basic Buddhist refuge vows and commitments, and creates heavy, negative karma. Then all Gelug lineage would have lost its effectiveness. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/) So, is it still valid to follow HH Dalai Lama’s teaching since he has been receiving the teachings of Tantric and Sutra under all these lineage masters?

[icy]

My questions is that the practices of Dorje Shugden is practiced and passed down since the 5th Dalai Lama, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, HH Trijang Rinpoche, etc. Can it be just stopped like that? If just stopped like that, does it mean it is not following the Guru’s instruction? If not following the Guru’s teaching, it would mean breaking the Samaya. So, is HH Dalai Lama’s teaching still pure?

Besides, if Dorje Shugden is an evil spirits, and praying to him is equal to praying to a spirit, which destroys the basis of our most basic Buddhist refuge vows and commitments, and creates heavy, negative karma. Then all Gelug lineage would have lost its effectiveness. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/) So, is it still valid to follow HH Dalai Lama’s teaching since he has been receiving the teachings of Tantric and Sutra under all these lineage masters?

Good questions lotus1!  Hence, everything is not valid accordingly.  The whole Lama Tsongkhapa lineage is built on no basis and will crumble to nothingness if you logically try to put the pieces together.  That is why what is said by the Dalai Lama does not hold water, it is illogical and not right.

When you are educated you will not just follow hearsay.  You will definitely investigate and check it out and you do not follow blindly.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Totally rejoice for the 30000 fortunate people who are there physically in South India to attend the teachings by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Also, feeling very thankful to modern technologies, the teachings are available online via live webcast to the whole wide world in so many languages.
Personally, I am not keen to be among the crowd of 30000 people on site at the teaching. I am contented to watching the webcast on the computer from my home. I am saving up to attend to teachings by HH Trijang Rinpoche, who have started turning the dharma wheel. Although I still have deep respect for HHDL, I am rather affected by the  statement HHDL made about his teacher being wrong. Watch the following video here:

The Dalai Lama says his Gurus are WRONG	Small | Large

Wonder what the rest of the world watching the teachings on webcast have on their mind regarding the Dorje Shugden ban.

[DharmaSpace]

Another thing that came up to my mind is, in every teachings/assembly of sanghas, the issue of Dorje Shugden is much talked about. Dorje Shugden issue is given much attention and prominence. AND NOW they even publish a book about Dorje Shugden. I have known of simple lay people who , when disturbed by a spirit, they scream their heads off to the spirit and that is the last they see of the spirit. I wonder why after decades, Dorje Shugden the spirit, as they claim he is, is still 'the star of the show'. Just yell and scream at him and have him out of the way is he is such an evil spirit!

@Rihanna With regards to screaming and the spirit runs, well of course if one is a vajramaster, when they scream then the spirit runs, so if we are not we can scream till the cows have come home, nothing will happen. Also the people who are anti Dorje Shugden will just say the people still have lots of karma to be harmed by Dorje Shugden or DS is a powerful powerful spirit.

For me the more powerful fact is  that Mindroling lamas had a hand in exorcising Dorje Shudgen, but Setrap kind of foiled their attempts. Now after the ban had started 30 years or so, many deluded people and practitioners may have even tried to exorcise Dorje Shugden, since now the deity is out in the 'open'. For all to see and attack. Seriously the heads of the Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya and Gelug should come together to exorcise the demon. Then no more time wasted debating, defending. If only they can exorcise a 'buddha'.......

[Lineageholder]

I don't know if Shugden practitioners were allowed or if any would want to even go if allowed... However check this out and listen to Great Stages of the Path (Lam Rim) Commentaries - Session 5 http://new.livestream.com/DalaiLama/lamrim-english from 01:01:00 onwards what HHDL is saying about His Nyingma practice, and about His Dorje Shugden practice. HH mentioned He did not simple just stop the practice based on a whim but actually did a doh ball divination in front of Avalokiteshvara statue. He also mentioned when the divination came yes to stop DS practice immediately, he got news from Trijang Rinpoche that Palden Lhamo was upset but says He will not go in to details on this! I wonder why was Palden Lhamo so upset about!

The basis of HH entire speech was we cannot be "sectarian" and cause "discrimination" on to other Vajrayana traditions, and HH felt bad He could not attend to some people who have requested Him for help because they were from other traditions.... This sounds really weird, would could he not attend to them? Did Tsongkhapa say you can only help those in Gelug tradition? I never heard of this nonsense at all! The whole thing felt like a huge excuse, or a cover up using "sectarianism" as the main point of why Dorje Shugden practice is not good when this is obvious not the case because even Dorje Shugden himself has helped many people in different traditions before. If there was a political rift and sectarianism between people in different traditions, it is the people who should be corrected and not the practice of an entire lineage. Besides what is so wrong if some of us wishes to just stick with our own lineage and master it? We can't even master 1, why do we need to study another for?

If HHDL decides He wants to study another tradition and got the approval from His teachers, then that is fine, and not a problem, why make all Dorje Shugden practitioners' issue???  As HH mentioned Je Tsongkhapa himself studied from all the other schools and condensed the essence of each tradition in to what we call Gelug, shows clearly Gelug tradition is from and hence not sectarian. So that means Dorje Shugden is literally the protector of all traditions, protecting the purest and the best teachings from all traditions which is found in the Gelug. Hence what's the PROBLEM?!

If people do not wish to learn from another teacher in another tradition, let them be. If they want to and their Guru permits, so be it... trust in one's Guru to know if you can or cannot handle it. If the Guru says NO, you cannot learn from another tradition and pollute our tradition, perhaps the Guru can see right through you that you will end up mixed up and instead of the teachings benefiting you, it may bring you harm or confuse you even more. That is why we have a Guru to guide us, no? If you do not agree with your Guru and wish to challenge His decision, then why on earth have a Guru in the first place, you are right and you know it all then. It's not that the Guru is sectarian, it's because the Guru wishes to protect your mind!

So for those so called "Gelugpas" who caused trouble and created actions that are not Dharmic or disrespectful to other traditions, we can question them, discipline them and help them stop discrimination and quietly do their practice instead of just dismissing a protector's practice of over 300 years that has brought benefit to many. That's stereotyping and banning the practice, this itself is being sectarian and discrimination! Why can't those who wish to remain "pure" in their lineage be left to do so peacefully? Why so much drama? Not everyone needs to follow HHDL decision and choices, why impose your views on to others by force? Sounds off and like a huge cover up... it's like the pot calling the kettle black!

My questions is that the practices of Dorje Shugden is practiced and passed down since the 5th Dalai Lama, HH Pabongka Rinpoche, HH Trijang Rinpoche, etc. Can it be just stopped like that? If just stopped like that, does it mean it is not following the Guru’s instruction? If not following the Guru’s teaching, it would mean breaking the Samaya. So, is HH Dalai Lama’s teaching still pure?

Besides, if Dorje Shugden is an evil spirits, and praying to him is equal to praying to a spirit, which destroys the basis of our most basic Buddhist refuge vows and commitments, and creates heavy, negative karma. Then all Gelug lineage would have lost its effectiveness. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/has-the-gelug-lineage-lost-its-effectiveness/) So, is it still valid to follow HH Dalai Lama’s teaching since he has been receiving the teachings of Tantric and Sutra under all these lineage masters?

Quite so! These are the contradictions that arise as a result of the Dalai Lama's rejection of the Gelugpa lineage. It is better to find a true Gelug Master who has integrity and who has stayed faithful to the Lineage, then there are no doubts or contradictions.

[icy]

A novice Tibetan monk gestures to the camera as the spiritual leader the Dalai Lama delivers the Jangchup Lamrim teachings on 29th December 2013 at the Sera Monastery in Bylakuppe, 135 miles west of Bangalore, India.

[icy]

Quite so! These are the contradictions that arise as a result of the Dalai Lama's rejection of the Gelugpa lineage. It is better to find a true Gelug Master who has integrity and who has stayed faithful to the Lineage, then there are no doubts or contradictions.

Lineageholder, fortunately, all is not lost as we have many Shugden Lamas upholding steadfastly and true to the practice and lineage.  One such prominent and eminent Lineage Master is course none other than Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche.  His great example is profoundly moving and the Shugdenpas are waiting for him to step out into the bigger spotlight for the benefit of numberless beings in the limitless space. 

[samayakeeper]

Personally I would not attend the teaching because I do not understand Tibetan and there was no English translation as shown in the video. Now after viewing the video shown in http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4564.0, I would not attend. Below is a copy of my comment.


'I think it would be good if high lamas from both camps meet to have an open debate, just like monks in monastery do, on why Dorje Shugden is claimed to be a demon and the ban by the anti Shugden group and why Dorje Shugden is an enlightened dharma protector and why the ban should be lifted by the pro Shugden group. Such an event should be witnessed by scholars from monasteries of each camp and a decision should be made after the debate. This would be more civilized, logical and peaceful compared to what the ban is doing to innocent people. I do not agree the issue of the ban should be brought up in a dharma teaching regardless of who was the speaker or VIP invited.'

[WisdomBeing]

Another thing that came up to my mind is, in every teachings/assembly of sanghas, the issue of Dorje Shugden is much talked about. Dorje Shugden issue is given much attention and prominence. AND NOW they even publish a book about Dorje Shugden. I have known of simple lay people who , when disturbed by a spirit, they scream their heads off to the spirit and that is the last they see of the spirit. I wonder why after decades, Dorje Shugden the spirit, as they claim he is, is still 'the star of the show'. Just yell and scream at him and have him out of the way is he is such an evil spirit!

@Rihanna With regards to screaming and the spirit runs, well of course if one is a vajramaster, when they scream then the spirit runs, so if we are not we can scream till the cows have come home, nothing will happen. Also the people who are anti Dorje Shugden will just say the people still have lots of karma to be harmed by Dorje Shugden or DS is a powerful powerful spirit.

For me the more powerful fact is  that Mindroling lamas had a hand in exorcising Dorje Shudgen, but Setrap kind of foiled their attempts. Now after the ban had started 30 years or so, many deluded people and practitioners may have even tried to exorcise Dorje Shugden, since now the deity is out in the 'open'. For all to see and attack. Seriously the heads of the Nyingma, Kagyu, Sakya and Gelug should come together to exorcise the demon. Then no more time wasted debating, defending. If only they can exorcise a 'buddha'.......

From my Dharma readings, the Lama is always superior over any spirit, so why hasn't the Dalai Lama, who is Avalokiteshvara himself, just commanded Dorje Shugden to disappear, or bind him under oath? Why appear to be so deathly afraid of this 'spirit' that people should not even utter his name? Yes Voldermort comes to mind again

There shouldn't need to be even several attempts to subdue Dorje Shugden - one word from the Dalai Lama and any spirit would be gone in a puff or smoke. Shouldn't it?

Since this has not happened, there are only two possible conclusions:
1. The Dalai Lama is not a Buddha.
2. Dorje Shugden is not a spirit.

Simple really, isn't it?

[icy]

From my Dharma readings, the Lama is always superior over any spirit, so why hasn't the Dalai Lama, who is Avalokiteshvara himself, just commanded Dorje Shugden to disappear, or bind him under oath? Why appear to be so deathly afraid of this 'spirit' that people should not even utter his name? Yes Voldermort comes to mind again

There shouldn't need to be even several attempts to subdue Dorje Shugden - one word from the Dalai Lama and any spirit would be gone in a puff or smoke. Shouldn't it?

Since this has not happened, there are only two possible conclusions:
1. The Dalai Lama is not a Buddha.
2. Dorje Shugden is not a spirit.

Simple really, isn't it?

I like this by Wisdom Being!

[gbds3jewels]

It is a precious opportunity when one gets to attend a LAMRIN teaching by The Dalai Lama himself. It was told that back in Buddha Shakyamuni days, people were instantly liberated from listening to Buddha's teachings. Nowadays we created for ourselves more and more distractions in the name of evolution and modernization. This only serves to take us further away from liberation.

While one will surely be blessed and have the seeds planted in our minds from listening directly to The Dalai Lama's teaching, if we do not transform our mind after listening to however amount of teachings, it all become useless in this lifetime. Without the mind transformation, we attend teachings but go back to exactly as we are.

We should be grateful that His Holiness out of compassion, knowing that we in this degenerated era are unworthy of any Dharma teachings, still schedule His time to give such public mass teachings. His Holiness giving teachings mean He continues to turn the wheel of Dharma and we should be ever so grateful to receive.

Personally I have always loved His Holiness teachings. His teachings use simple words, factual and to the point but extremely hard to understand...lol. What can I say, I wasn't born with wisdom. I love the logic of Buddhism but doesn't mean I have an in depth understanding of it. Still every time I read what HHTDL says, I find a surreal peace in His words, almost like a click of light bulb but not quite there yet....the light didn't exactly come on yet...