The Dalai Lama blesses enormous Nyingma Lineage Thangka at Sera

[dsiluvu]

A friend of mine has been a follower of Lama Zopa for over ten years but she has recently decided that she wanted to follow the Nyingma school rather than the Gelugpa, saying that Lama Zopa also practices Guru Rinpoche etc. My question is - is it okay from a dharma perspective - to change traditions? After all, as i understand it, the Gelugpa school also has Nyingma practices within it since Gelugpa is the amalgamation of the best from the main schools of Buddhism at the time, namely Nyingma, Sakya and Kagyu, as well as the Kadampa tradition.

Second question - why does the Dalai Lama have to promote Nyingma for political reasons (which has also been cited as the reason that Dalai lama is attacking Dorje Shugden because he can't criticise any other tradition's protector) - can someone please give me a simple reply?

Hey WB, personally I do not think it is a healthy spiritual path to switch traditions especially when we cannot even master one tradition haha. What about the Guru, in this case Lama Zopa? I know in Vajrayana traditions, one is not allowed to even go to another Guru's teachings unless one's root Guru permits, let alone switch traditions all together. I wonder if your friend asked Lama Zopa's permission, and if she did and he said "Yes she can" then we don't have much to say except why is this allowed? It's like saying your tradition is not good enough or that you're so highly attained and you need some extra practices from a another school so you can be of more benefit to others??

And yes like you said if you practice Gelug tradition properly, there is no need to go for or switch to other traditions because Je Tsongkhapa who is also Guru Rinpoche has already selected the best for us, for our times.

As for your 2nd question... Yes I think I've heard of this... somehow it rings some truth! Dalai Lama can never ever dare to criticise another tradition, it would cause huge chaos amongst the Tibetans. So He can only criticise his own tradition. WHY is He even doing this? Peer pressure from the other traditions, perhaps? It just seem very unfair. 

[icy]

The thangka is well drawn and nice and blessed to view at because it has enlightened masters, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. When will the Dalai Lama bless a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden complete with the five forms and 32 main entourage? After all, Dorje Shugden is all in one: enlightened master, Buddha, and Bodhisattva.

You will see the 15th Dalai Lama blessing a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden in China not too distant future away.  This wish by all Shugdenpas will definitely come true.

[icy]

Lama Zopa being a Gelug tradition Lama actually sponsored such an enormous Guru Rinpoche thangka during the Lamrim teaching

This is not the first time Lama Zopa Rinpoche had sponsored such an enormous Guru Rinpoche.  He had sponsored a huge Guru Rinpoche statue in Sikkim previously.  It denotes his non-sectarianism practice but not necessarily practising it.  After all Guru Rinpoche and Je Tsongkhapa are of the same mind stream.

[DharmaSpace]

@WB I do think one can change tradition and even teacher. If you change teacher it means that the previous tradition and teacher is not able to fulfil one's dharma aspirations. If people are for dharma, to me that insinuates that Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition is not able to fulfil everyone's dharma aspirations is that true? 

However I would also draw the conclusion that when they first was with Lama Zopa they were not sure of what they doing and plus did Lama Zopa not teach them the dharma and given them the dharma at all. I think if they have told everyone before Lama Zopa is such a great lama, my precious guru then it kind of sounds like lacking of a better word faking it?

[Lineageholder]

From Joyful Path of Good Fortune by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, p 21:

While the great Tibetan Master Kyabje Phabongkha was living in Kham in eastern Tibet, a Geshe arrived there from one of the great Gelug monasteries and went to receive practical instructions from a Nyingma Lama. The local people concluded that the Gelugpas had no practice since such a great Geshe needed to go looking for one. When Kyabje Phabongkha heard of this he said that it was a great shame that this Geshe had wasted so many years of instruction by failing to realize that all his previous study was to be put into practice. It was possible for the Geshe to lose so much time only because he had not built the storeroom of Lamrim within his own mind.

[Big Uncle]

A friend of mine has been a follower of Lama Zopa for over ten years but she has recently decided that she wanted to follow the Nyingma school rather than the Gelugpa, saying that Lama Zopa also practices Guru Rinpoche etc. My question is - is it okay from a dharma perspective - to change traditions? After all, as i understand it, the Gelugpa school also has Nyingma practices within it since Gelugpa is the amalgamation of the best from the main schools of Buddhism at the time, namely Nyingma, Sakya and Kagyu, as well as the Kadampa tradition.

Second question - why does the Dalai Lama have to promote Nyingma for political reasons (which has also been cited as the reason that Dalai lama is attacking Dorje Shugden because he can't criticise any other tradition's protector) - can someone please give me a simple reply?

Interesting question. I think it would be wiser to follow our Guru's instructions. As far as I know, Lama Zopa has never advised any of his students to switch from Gelug to Nyingma...ever. He may maintain some Nyingma practices himself but I don't think he tells his students that they can switch camps because of some of his own practices. As far as I know, he is always telling his students to practice lamrim, training the mind and so on. The exception would be if he himself instructs his student to make that switch. It does not matter if there are Nyingma practices within Gelug because each lineage already contain all the necessary steps to achieve full enlightenment but have different focus and path. The missing of lineage would only lead to confusion especially for ordinary practitioners.

With regards to the Dalai Lama, he is a political leader (or as they call it temporal leader) and he has to appear non-bias in order to gain political support and power...  and the only way to do that is to suppress the fundamentalist faction within the Gelug which traditionally are against Nyingma practice. This fundamentalist faction is also mistakenly thought to be Dorje Shugden practitioners and lamas. Hope this is simple enough... 

[Matibhadra]

With regards to the Dalai Lama, he is a political leader (or as they call it temporal leader) and he has to appear non-bias in order to gain political support and power...

Rather, the evil dalai has effectively to be biased towards the gangsters on whose support he has chosen to depend, and also biased against those who he sees as a threat to his absolute power, which is exactly what he does.

And why? Because this is the behavior of any unscrupulous tyrant.

Therefore he is shamelessly biased towards anti-Gelugpa haters, and shamelessly biased against followers of Dorje Shugden.

and the only way to do that is to suppress the fundamentalist faction within the Gelug which traditionally are against Nyingma practice.

This sordid accusation of “fundamentalism” against holy lamas such as Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche became fashionable indeed. However, they were never “against” any Nyingma practices whatsoever; rather, they simply emphasized their own lineage, exactly in the same way that any Nyingma lama does.

Besides, this is a most idiotic accusation. “Fundamentalism” has to do with literal interpretation of scripture, while anyone who studies the teachings of those holy lamas can see how heavily reliant they were on logic and subtle, penetrating, multifaceted analysis. Gelugpas come from a culture of debate rather than blind faith or personality cult.

Also, “fundamentalism” has to do with adherence to, and imposition of, some orthodoxy. In such case, the fundamentalist is definitely the evil dalai, because he tries violently to enforce his catholic “rime” orthodoxy, according to which Gelugpas have to practice Nyingma teachings, and engage in a personality cult of Padmasambhava, rather than cultivating pure guru devotion towards Tsongkhapa.

This fundamentalist faction is also mistakenly thought to be Dorje Shugden practitioners and lamas.

Now, if even supreme lamas such as Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche, precisely those so sordidly and idiotically accused of “fundamentalism“, are “this fundamentalist faction mistakenly thought to be Dorje Shugden practitioners“, then one one might wonder who remains to be the “real” Dorje Shugden lamas and practitioners, and who remains to be a non-fundamentalist lama or practitioner in your view.

Hope this is simple enough...

A simple, but rather gross, blatant mistake.

You have apparently adopted the evil dalai's discourse of “fundamentalism” against Gelugpas, and specifically against Shugdenpas, which is a case of the victim identifying with, and introjecting, or adopting for oneself, the abusive and repulsive behavior of the perpetrator, a mechanism well known as “identification with the aggressor”.

Buddhism, Tibetan or not, Gelugpa or not, Shugdenpa or not, is about freedom, which includes the inner freedom from the subconscious fears bringing one to such immature, slavish attitudes. Tyrants such as the evil dalai, primitive as they are themselves, draw their power over and above everything from the subservience of their sycophantic adulators.

[samayakeeper]

The thangka is well drawn and nice and blessed to view at because it has enlightened masters, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. When will the Dalai Lama bless a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden complete with the five forms and 32 main entourage? After all, Dorje Shugden is all in one: enlightened master, Buddha, and Bodhisattva.

You will see the 15th Dalai Lama blessing a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden in China not too distant future away.  This wish by all Shugdenpas will definitely come true.

I like the way you put it, "You will see the 15th Dalai Lama............." It is like it will be certain. I wonder what will happen if there is no 15th? Just wondering. Maybe the Dalai Lama may not want to reincarnate since there is no Tibet nor a united people to rule.

Then I will not get to see the Dalai Lama (14th/15th) doing the blessing of the said thangka

 

[icy]

The thangka is well drawn and nice and blessed to view at because it has enlightened masters, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. When will the Dalai Lama bless a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden complete with the five forms and 32 main entourage? After all, Dorje Shugden is all in one: enlightened master, Buddha, and Bodhisattva.

You will see the 15th Dalai Lama blessing a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden in China not too distant future away.  This wish by all Shugdenpas will definitely come true.

I like the way you put it, "You will see the 15th Dalai Lama............." It is like it will be certain. I wonder what will happen if there is no 15th? Just wondering. Maybe the Dalai Lama may not want to reincarnate since there is no Tibet nor a united people to rule.

Then I will not get to see the Dalai Lama (14th/15th) doing the blessing of the said thangka

Well Samayakeeper, China is controlling the next Dalai Lama reincarnation by controlling her choice of 11th Panchen Lama.  Traditionally Panchen Lamas pick and recognise the reincarnations of Dalai Lama.  As China is controlling the "Sun and Moon" of Tibet within China, definitely you will see the incarnation of 15th Dalai Lama doing the blessing of the thangka. 

Panchen Lama is a strong Shugden holder and will tutor the 15th Dalai Lama to become a strong Shugdenpa.  Whatever ban there was in India will be totally and completely wiped out and forgotten.  There is a beginning of a Dorje Shugden Renaissance after the  present upheaval.  As you can see currently, Trijang Rinpoche and Shugden Lamas are already actively spreading the teaching around the globe.

[Freyr Aesiragnorak]

I find it sad and disheartening that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been called 'Evil' on this thread. I was always told to judge a person's actions and not label them in particular. In my personal opinion I believe Gyalwa Rinpoche to be Chenresig, there is no doubt in my mind. Yes he may have started this ban and enforced it again and again, but why has he done this? You could give me a lot of political reasoning, but as he is an enlightened being, I believe all that is happening to be part of a divine play.

Whatever the motivation behind the Dalai Lama blessing the thangka and Lama Zopa sponsoring it, I think it is a GOOD thing. Why wouldn't I? The Gelug tradition as it exists now was created by the great Lama Tsongkhapa and preserved through many great masters. But have you forgotten that Lama Tsongkhapa's guru's were Nyingma too, such as Lama Lhodrag Namkha Gyaltsen. So what do you think his Guru's were practicing?

The Dharma is fluid and changing, as per everything else in this universe. Lama Tsongkhapa elucidated the teachings at a time when they needed to be elucidated, and this tradition has been kept alive until today, for people of the karmic dispositions to be able to receive the teachings and practice it according to the tradition and the instructions of our Gurus. It's as simple as that.

I do not doubt that there is political manoeuvrings behind this, but rather than jumping on the bandwagon of fundamentalists, check your mind, have faith in your Guru and Dorje Shugden as things will definitely change and then maybe, just maybe..... if we have the merits, we will be able to understand what this whole ban has really been about.

[Lineageholder]

The Dalai Lama from the time of the 5th has always had an exaggerated importance. The 5th Dalai Lama mixed traditions and mixed religion and politics and appeared to be interested in gaining political power and influence.  I do think the destruction of a spiritual tradition is an evil action. Buddha said that his tradition would be destroyed from the inside, and who better to do it than the Dalai Lama?  For as long as people condone his actions you are giving him all the power he needs to destroy pure Buddhadharma.

I think it's quite simple - the present Dalai Lama is a false Lama who is not the incarnation of the 13th, but even if he was, he would be doing a similar thing because the 13th Dalai Lama's actions were similarly impure.

We have to use our wisdom to see what is happening. Is the Dalai Lama making Tsongkhapa's tradition stronger or weaker?  Is he continuing the tradition of his Teachers Ling and Trijang Rinpoches who in turn carried on the tradition from their Guru Je Pabongkhapa?  You can find the answers in your own heart if you look - don't follow blind faith and don't be unquestioning because that's how Buddha's teachings, and in particular, Je Tsongkhapa's teachings get destroyed.

[yontenjamyang]

A friend of mine has been a follower of Lama Zopa for over ten years but she has recently decided that she wanted to follow the Nyingma school rather than the Gelugpa, saying that Lama Zopa also practices Guru Rinpoche etc. My question is - is it okay from a dharma perspective - to change traditions? After all, as i understand it, the Gelugpa school also has Nyingma practices within it since Gelugpa is the amalgamation of the best from the main schools of Buddhism at the time, namely Nyingma, Sakya and Kagyu, as well as the Kadampa tradition.

Second question - why does the Dalai Lama have to promote Nyingma for political reasons (which has also been cited as the reason that Dalai lama is attacking Dorje Shugden because he can't criticise any other tradition's protector) - can someone please give me a simple reply?

Personally, I recited Guru Rinpoche's mantra first before I met my root Guru who is of course a Gelug Lama. I  find that in order for me to practice the teachings well, I have to have a Guru that I can have access to. Simple reason. Perhaps I have better affinity with my root Guru. I also find that switching Guru or School is wasting the years spent on the first school. It is like switching from soccer to rugby just because the soccer coach also play some rugby. The key is accessibility to the Guru's teachings (not necessarily physical access). We have to ask ourselves have we completed the tasks and practices that the Guru has given us? If not, what is the problem? Did Milarepa went to Marpa in the middle of building the house 13 times? I think not.

So, in my opinion, it has nothing to do with the School or the Buddhas. It has all to do with ourselves. One can be successful in gaining attainments in any school. But the root of this attainments is Guru Samaya. If we switches half way, what karma does it creates?  Only very exceptional people can practice different schools. Are we that exceptional? I am afraid most aren't.

On the second question. I don't think the Dalai Lama is promoting the Nyingma School over the Gelug or any other schools. As the spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism He needs to support all Schools. If the Tibetan Church ask him to open their church, I think he would oblige.

[samayakeeper]

The thangka is well drawn and nice and blessed to view at because it has enlightened masters, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. When will the Dalai Lama bless a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden complete with the five forms and 32 main entourage? After all, Dorje Shugden is all in one: enlightened master, Buddha, and Bodhisattva.

Wouldn’t it be cool if the 15th Dalai Lama is the mind emanation of Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen since you said that China is the controller?

The previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was also a strong and loyal Shugdenpa but look what happened to the 14th now.


You will see the 15th Dalai Lama blessing a 200' x 100' thangka of Dorje Shugden in China not too distant future away.  This wish by all Shugdenpas will definitely come true.

I like the way you put it, "You will see the 15th Dalai Lama............." It is like it will be certain. I wonder what will happen if there is no 15th? Just wondering. Maybe the Dalai Lama may not want to reincarnate since there is no Tibet nor a united people to rule.

Then I will not get to see the Dalai Lama (14th/15th) doing the blessing of the said thangka

Well Samayakeeper, China is controlling the next Dalai Lama reincarnation by controlling her choice of 11th Panchen Lama.  Traditionally Panchen Lamas pick and recognise the reincarnations of Dalai Lama.  As China is controlling the "Sun and Moon" of Tibet within China, definitely you will see the incarnation of 15th Dalai Lama doing the blessing of the thangka. 

Panchen Lama is a strong Shugden holder and will tutor the 15th Dalai Lama to become a strong Shugdenpa.  Whatever ban there was in India will be totally and completely wiped out and forgotten.  There is a beginning of a Dorje Shugden Renaissance after the  present upheaval.  As you can see currently, Trijang Rinpoche and Shugden Lamas are already actively spreading the teaching around the globe.

[Matibhadra]

I find it sad and disheartening that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has been called 'Evil' on this thread.

The real problem are not the adjectives attached to the evil dalai, and not even the evilness itself of the evil dalai, but rather the sycophantic attitude of legitimizing and sanctifying evil, with the anti-Buddhist, fundamentalist argument of the ”infallible authority” of the evildoer.

Anyway, your capitalized ”Evil” suggests a Christian association of ”evil” with some kind of Satan; however, ”evil” means simply ”that which is harmful”, ”that which impairs happiness”, phrases which accurately describe the evil dalai.

I was always told to judge a person's actions

Then good luck judging the evil dalai's ruthless religious intolerance, his brutal witch hunts, his encouragement of racist bloody riots, of sef-immolations, and of murdering of lamas, his defamation and derision of his own root gurus, and his schismatic actions creating deep division within the Sangha, and outcastes within Tibetan society.

and not label them in particular.

Still, you label all of the above evil as ”holiness”, right?

In my personal opinion I believe Gyalwa Rinpoche to be Chenresig, there is no doubt in my mind.

Great. But then you want to forbid others to say that your hero is a criminal, right?

In other words, you want to impose your beliefs on others, and to decide what others are allowed or not to say, which betrays an intolerant, fanatical, fundamentalist religious attitude from your side, consistent by the way with your admiration for the evil inquisitor dalai.

Yes he may have started this ban and enforced it again and again, but why has he done this?

Evil actions, according to Buddhist teachings, are produced in dependence of the so-called ”three poisons”: ignorance, attachment and hatred.

You could give me a lot of political reasoning,

The extensive list of crimes continually perpetrated by the evil dalai have hardly anything to do with politics.

but as he is an enlightened being,

This, on the other hand, is a highly political statement, a crude attempt at legitimizing the actions of a criminal.

I believe all that is happening to be part of a divine play.

You are free to believe whatever bogus story you want, just please don't try to impose your beliefs on others like a fanatical, fundamentalist priest.

Whatever the motivation behind the Dalai Lama blessing the thangka and Lama Zopa sponsoring it, I think it is a GOOD thing.

Since for you ”whatever the motivation is good”, then evil motivations are good, which explains your general accomplicity with the crimes of the evil dalai.

Why wouldn't I?

Because your identification with, and admiration for evil does not allow it.

The Gelug tradition as it exists now was created by the great Lama Tsongkhapa and preserved through many great masters. But have you forgotten that Lama Tsongkhapa's guru's were Nyingma too, such as Lama Lhodrag Namkha Gyaltsen. So what do you think his Guru's were practicing?

Probably just what he taught his ”main and most favorite disciple” Lama Tsongkhapa, namely, Lamrim and Sarma secret teachings.

The Dharma is fluid and changing, as per everything else in this universe. Lama Tsongkhapa elucidated the teachings at a time when they needed to be elucidated, and this tradition has been kept alive until today, for people of the karmic dispositions to be able to receive the teachings and practice it according to the tradition and the instructions of our Gurus. It's as simple as that.

So what. But since for you ”whatever motivation is good”, your pompous discourse is for nothing.

I do not doubt that there is political manoeuvrings behind this, but rather than jumping on the bandwagon of fundamentalists,

Thank you for your invitation, but in this bandwagon I leave you alone with the evil witch hunter, the intolerant dalai, and his perfid minions.

check your mind, have faith in your Guru and Dorje Shugden as things will definitely change and then maybe, just maybe.....

Maybe you follow your own advice, and check what brings you to believe that ”whatever motivation is good”.

if we have the merits, we will be able to understand what this whole ban has really been about.

This you can know right now: this perverse witch hunt is about a power greedy, unscrupulous witch hunter, and his sycophants trying to justify their master with the fundamentalist argument of ”infallibe authority” -- by the way the very same argument used by the Catholic Church to justify its medieval witch hunts.

[Lineageholder]

I understand that Freyr is simply trying to keep a pure view of a Teacher that she may have some samaya with and is trying to make sense of the harmful actions of the Dalai Lama, but in so doing we must not legitimize the religious persecution that is going on here.

The Dalai Lama has a very good media image - people simply believe him to be a saint, based mainly on what he says which are the words of his Teacher, the words of Dharma, which he does not act in accordance with.  He is using the position of infallibility which was started by his predecessor, the 5th Dalai Lama to impose his irrational intolerance on others.  Most Tibetans simply believe him to be Chenrezig and therefore infallible, and readily accept everything he says and everything he does, which opens them up to be abused by him.  He can use them to fight his war against Dorje Shugden practitioners and because of their attachment to him, they are willing even to harm others who do not comply with the Dalai Lama's demands. We must be careful that we do not allow our attachment to turn a blind eye to the terrible actions he is now creating and the suffering that is causing.

It's a very sad situation from which no good can come and it must be opposed by non-violent means.  We must not be afraid to speak the truth; the Dalai Lama is lying and being hypocritical in his crusade against Trijang Rinpoche's students. It's a very bizarre situation but it is appearing for us. It's unfortunately our karma for this to be appearing. It's up to us not to allow the Dalai Lama to destroy Je Tsongkhapa's tradition and so, for those who are brave enough to take on the media's darling, we need to let people know the truth by protest, by social media and by any means of communication at our disposal. People need to know that Dorje Shugden practitioners are being ostracized and persecuted for no justifiable reason by the Dalai Lama and his followers and that the Dalai Lama is therefore not what he appears to be.