Author Topic: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama  (Read 12874 times)

Big Uncle

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2014, 07:30:37 AM »
The high lamas are mostly mum about the Dalai Lama so what are the common people supposed to think?

Actually, no. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche already had spoken about this in his Dorje Shugden writings - Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors. The text was written before the ban and it was probably because he foresaw the conflict and offers an advice to rise above this. Here's what he said...

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But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future. Why is this true? Because it is utterly impossible that such great beings, who are special emanations of Arya Avalokiteswara and Buddha Amitabha, could lack the power to overcome the harmful force of any sort of magical spell, harmful demon, or spirit. This is because they are both powerful Lords who have overcome external and internal maras without exception. - Page 125 of Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors

« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 07:44:29 AM by Big Uncle »

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2014, 08:21:23 AM »
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.

Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.

psylotripitaka

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2014, 06:30:17 AM »
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.

Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.

(Speaking generally, not directly to you Js)
It doesn't matter which DL Rinpoche is referring to, that is not the point. However, we must understand the need for relating to the human emanation in an appropriate way, and since according to worldly convention the present DL has tried to usurp the position of the many lineage Gurus and engaged in excessive criminal activity, he must face the consequences of his actions amongst human society that are regarded as inappropriate by such a society. As I've said elsewhere, if my Gurus were abusing human rights, I would confront them and they would need to face justice according to society's conventions, Buddha or not.

You can't just go around killing and stealing and lying and harming people and finding ways to force others to harm people and say "it's ok, they're a Buddha". That's horse shit. It may be ok in terms of that Buddhas' subjective work to tame living beings beyond ordinary understanding, but from the point of view of the worldly, that shit isn't ok and will be dealt with accordingly, and they know that, of course, that's part of the play, part of the taming, getting us to respond appropriately with compassionate action to stop the wrong actions. That is the whole point, the refinement of your consciousness, and you have to realize this subjectively and privately.

But let me give you a clear example of how such dialogue appears to the worldly. I once was explaining to a non-Buddhist how a Buddha or bodhisattvas'  compassion and skill are beyond comprehension and that they will not accumulate negativity even if they kill someone. You know what their response was? "What the fuck, so it's ok for people to kill if they say they're a Buddha, that's messed up." Exactly! 

As for accumulating negative karma, if a person has compassion for someone they regard as an ordinary sentient being, provided they are not speaking under the influence of strong delusion but rather out of compassion and an honest analysis of the situation as it appears to worldly convention, such titles as 'hypocrite', 'liar', 'dictator', 'criminal impostor', 'evil dalai' and so on are not misnomers, but accurate descriptions of actions being performed by such a person. Just because such names may be used it does not automatically follow that the namer hates the person being named. The naming as such is an effort to get people to see the situation for what it is according to human conventions. I commend Jspitanga for being forthright and spot on, and I empathize with those who have the DL as a Guru - I know it is not an easy thing to admit your Guru is doing hella bad shit to people or have people using such language about your Guru. In this paragraph, my aim is to give you a perspective on where people are coming from when they use such names. I don't have great wisdom or clairvoyance, but I do have a good heart and try to share what I feel may be helpful. Sorry if I sometimes preach to the choir or come off as arrogant, I'm just trying to help dispel tension in this awkward circumstance we find ourselves in.



Big Uncle

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2014, 04:32:05 PM »
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or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama.

Trijang Rinpoche is surely referring to actual Dalai Lamas, not to just any evil, criminal impostor soiling this name.

But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...

Rihanna

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2014, 11:49:25 PM »
Dear Wisdom Being,

Thank you for this post, once again, pointing to great contradictions in the statements of His Holiness. On one hand, His Holiness is strongly against discrimination base on religion, on the other hand, he has single handedly created one of the biggest discrimination in the history of Tibetan Buddhism through enforcing the ban on the practise of Dorje Shugden. Imagine the karma accumulated in causing the suffering towards others...the monks, the lay people, high lamas...etc. But then again, His Holiness comes from a direct line of recognized incarnations and therefore, his actions must be based on something we cannot ordinarily perceive. His Holiness's recognition is official, and has been since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama. Therefore, if there is doubt on His Holiness's attainments and realizations, then the high lamas including Panchen Lama, who performed divination to recognize the current Dalai Lama would all be wrong too. And that would shake the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition. So that cannot be the case.

Therefore, since His Holiness is who he is, then whatever he is doing should arise from an enlightened mind. His works throughout his life has been benefiting mankind in more ways than one can describe so we cannot undermine or insult His Holiness through anger and hatred. However, we can appeal to His Holiness to stop the ban on Dorje Shugden, for if he is to practise what he preaches, then the ban on Dorje Shugden is invalid.

[I agree with you that there is a lot of contradictions on statements that the Dalai Lama makes. It is almost like an indecisive person saying "on one hand it is ..... but on the other hand..... "
According to the Dalai Lama’s web page, he frequently states that his life is guided by three major commitments: the promotion of basic human values or secular ethics in the interest of human happiness, the fostering of inter-religious harmony and the welfare of the Tibetan people, focusing on the survival of their identity, culture and religion. BUT ON THE OTHER HAND he is not lifting the ban which continues to presecute his own people (Buddhists/Tibetans who practice Dorje Shugden) as they are continuosly being oppressed, abused, victimized, ill-treated and mistreated.  ]

icy

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2014, 05:19:11 AM »
Quote from: jspitanga

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A free ticket to the hell.

When jspitanga stated it is a free ticket to the hell,  I absolutely agree with him for HHDL is Avalokestivara with thousand arms and eyes when he travel forth to hell, he will liberate many beings in hell.  These beings will have the opportunity to migrate toPure Land to learn and practice Dharma.  How wonderful!

Tenzin Malgyur

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2014, 11:28:44 AM »
"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.

I wonder how unenlightened beings like myself is going to interpret this statement. How His Holiness have been preaching all these messages of compassion, peace, harmony and non discrimination. Is His Holiness aware of the plights of Shugden practitioners being ostracized by the CTA? Oo...wait a minute, the CTA is merely carrying out their duty under the instructions of the government led by His Holiness. So what is the definition of discrimination on basis of religion?

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2014, 01:31:40 AM »
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"All human beings are equal and capable. Discrimination on the basis of caste, religion or any other condition is a sinful act," the Dalai Lama said.

And since the evil dalai furiously engages in such sinful acts, he is not only a sinner according to his own definition, but also an hypocrite, defined by Merrian-Webster as ”a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.”

Now those who claim that a shameless sinner and cowardly hypocrite is a practitioner of the Buddhist path, and someone worth emulation and veneration, are not only bringing disgrace and disrepute to Buddhadharma, but also showing their own accomplicity with evil.

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2014, 02:06:51 AM »
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When jspitanga stated it is a free ticket to the hell,  I absolutely agree with him for HHDL is Avalokestivara with thousand arms and eyes when he travel forth to hell, he will liberate many beings in hell.  These beings will have the opportunity to migrate toPure Land to learn and practice Dharma.  How wonderful!

If the evil dalai where Chenrezig, he would not send people to the hells in the first place, through instigating them to create schism within the Sangha, to break their commitments with their gurus, to self-immolate, and so forth.

This shows how immoral and anti-Buddhistic is the personality cult around the evil dalai, let's call it dalaism, the novel ideology many people have adopted as a replacement for, and as weapon against, the pure Dharma of the Buddha.

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2014, 02:51:07 AM »
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But then again, His Holiness comes from a direct line of recognized incarnations and therefore, his actions must be based on something we cannot ordinarily perceive.

Rather, since we can directly perceive that the evil dalai is nothing but an ordinary criminal, it follows that he, together with some of his recognized predecessors, is nothing but an impostor.

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His Holiness's recognition is official, and has been since the time of the 5th Dalai Lama.

If it is official, it is most likely an imposture, otherwise there would be no need to be official to start with. Our teacher, the Buddha, was never officially recognized, let alone by a bunch of greedy theocratic slave-owners.

The problem is that your mind is not turned towards Dharma, but rather towards political power and recognition, that is, towards the so-called eight mundane concerns the Buddha warned against.

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Therefore, if there is doubt on His Holiness's attainments and realizations, then the high lamas including Panchen Lama, who performed divination to recognize the current Dalai Lama would all be wrong too.

This is a blatant lie of your own invention. The current, evil dalai was never recognized by any divination performed by any Panchen Lama. The current, evil dalai, was born in 1935 and ”recognized” only by the debauched regent Reting in 1937, the very year when the 9th Panchen Lama died in far away Yushu, fleeing the relentless persecution by the same, debauched Reting.

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And that would shake the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

Funny, I thought that the foundation of the entire Tibetan Buddhist tradition was the Sutras and Tantras of the Buddha.

Anyway, since political recognitions seem to be the basis of your religion, it follows that your religion are just the eight mundane concerns, the straight path to hell according to the Buddha.

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So that cannot be the case.

Since all of your reasonings are based on lies and wrong motivations, your conclusion could not be different.

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2014, 04:39:08 AM »
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But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...

Surely, whence his prophetic warning about the evil dalai's jealous behavior.

DharmaSpace

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2014, 06:22:29 AM »
Whatever label we wish to call Dalai Lama that is up to our own individual choice of this matter for me it is quite simple, the Dalai Lama is a highly intelligent person and he has studied the scripture and Lamrim possibly many rounds and meditated on them. If he is unenlightened, he will create negative karma, if he is enlightened he will not create any karma thats my simplistic way of looking at things. So despite the ban looking very worldly in nature and political it might not be due to the Dalai lama's motivations.

Karma is infallible, if he has indeed harmed others and that was his motive, not even he can escape karma if he does any action with the 8 worldly concerns and the 3 poisons within his mindstream. Let karma be the judge. 

A lama spoke about judging lamas, especially that if we start saying this lama is incorrect or has a flaw or is not the correct one, then doubt can be thrown in not to only lamas, but teachings of the past, dharma texts written by certain lamas etc. If we can say Dalai Lama is the fake one, which I doubt it, if he is the fake dalai lama he has certainly captivated the world and many of the top minds of the world. How many fake people can do that to such a level, sleep little, no indulgence teach, talk and rationalise. What evil being will give so much relief and inspire so many to do dharma practice? Can a negative and evil mind bring benefit to so many? Though probable but highly unlikely.

If we can call the Dalai Lama fake, then the same accusations can be hurled on to Karmapa, Sakya Trinzin, Dilgo Khyentse etc etc,so where does the buck stop?  Then we can go on is this dharma text composed by so and so is it authentic and dharma, where does this end? Not to forget the Dalai Lama in previous incarnation was the lineage holder of the Lamrim from Je Atisha. If we go with such a thinking we won't be practicing dharma we will just be seeing the faults of others and checking which Lama is incorrect now? How beneficial will this be? 

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2014, 06:47:44 PM »
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A lama spoke about judging lamas, especially that if we start saying this lama is incorrect or has a flaw or is not the correct one, then doubt can be thrown in not to only lamas, but teachings of the past, dharma texts written by certain lamas etc.

This is a sordid attempt to transfer to the student the faults of the supposed lama. If the self-styled lama spoils and corrupts the teachings, as the evil dalai does, the fault belongs to corrupting teacher, not to the student. Why don't you name the corrupt ”lama” proclaiming such an anti-Buddhist absurdity?

Besides, Maitreya's Ornament of the Mahayana Sutras insists on the need of carefully judging of the proposed lama, before even accepting him as such. And the very first quality required from a teacher is a disciplined mind, which the evil dalai obviously lacks.

The evil dalai, possessed by his power greed, encourages self-immolation, promotes witch hunts, and like a mad dog infected with rabies spreads hatred and dissension among the people, and causes the severance of sacred guru-disciple bonds. He reacts angrily, fully out of control, even to a simple, peaceful nun.

Therefore, according to Maitreya, the self-styled Chenrezig impostor does not qualify as a teacher. Your unnamed ”lama”, who contradicted the teachings and wanted to forbid judging of lamas, obviously motivated by the eight mundane concerns, just wanted to give himself some immunity and infallibility status.

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If we can say Dalai Lama is the fake one, which I doubt it, if he is the fake dalai lama he has certainly captivated the world and many of the top minds of the world.

So what. Many criminals did. This only shows the power of human stupidity. That's why the advice of the Buddha was to rely on yourself, on your own judging powers, on reason and direct perception, not on the opinions of others, not even of the Buddha himself.

But for you what counts is what the media says. You gave up your human dignity, you accepted to become a remote-controlled zombie, repeating the commonly accepted, media induced opinion, just because it is commonly accepted. You are not interested in liberation, but in only complying with commonly accepted opinion.

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How many fake people can do that to such a level, sleep little, no indulgence teach, talk and rationalise.

Many maniacs do the same. But, just like with the evil dalai, only evil comes from this maniac behavior.

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What evil being will give so much relief

Which relief? The relief of the self-immolator burning in flames? The relief of the divided families? The relief of the student separated fro him guru? The relief of being treated like a pariah and refused medical assistance, education, documents, and every basic human right? The relief of being beaten and stoned by witch hunters?

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and inspire so many to do dharma practice?

Which ”dharma practice”? The sordid personality cult you obviously engage in?

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Can a negative and evil mind bring benefit to so many?

Which benefit, apart from the miseries above? Maybe the benefit of being a useful puppet for Western anti-humanity geopolitical interests, those controlling the media, the same media telling you to venerate the evil criminal.

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If we can call the Dalai Lama fake, then the same accusations can be hurled on to Karmapa, Sakya Trinzin, Dilgo Khyentse etc etc,so where does the buck stop?

Wherever fakeness stops. Samsara is where fakeness prevail. Instead of carefully checking for yourself, you obviously rely on big names and titles. Therefore, you are possessed by the eight mundane concerns, and are just a fake Dharma practitioner yourself.

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Then we can go on is this dharma text composed by so and so is it authentic and dharma, where does this end?

Use your own reason, this is the advice of the Buddha. Do not accept just any garbage just because it labels itself ”Dharma”.

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Not to forget the Dalai Lama in previous incarnation was the lineage holder of the Lamrim from Je Atisha.

This is the story the evildoer and his minions tell you. It is intended to deceive people wanting to be deceived, like you.

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If we go with such a thinking we won't be practicing dharma we will just be seeing the faults of others and checking which Lama is incorrect now? How beneficial will this be?

The benefit of properly checking the proposed lama, and of resolutely rejecting a fake, is that one is able to start practicing Dharma, as opposed to just faking it, as you do.

dsiluvu

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2014, 06:27:44 AM »
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But... but... but Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche taught this Dalai Lama and wouldn't he know his student through and through and that he is an impostor and one that is evil? Wouldn't Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have some sort of clairvoyance to see something in him to decide on this? For many years, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had been transmitting the teachings to him. He must know something or have a clue about this...

Surely, whence his prophetic warning about the evil dalai's jealous behavior.

I do think BIG UNCLE has a point there which I do think so!

YES YES YES Surely HH Trijang Rinpoche could see through and beyond if this Dalai Lama was a fake evil being. Why confer him all the initiations for? So he could harm and bring more being to hell? That sounds a bit silly. Now we cannot go on the route to say HH Trijang could have been wrong, cos my my that would mean we're no different from Dalai Lama... then we're all in the same boat!

And even if we take on the "ass-u me-ption" that this Dalai Lama is a fake... wow... His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche sure is showing us the right example of attitude we also need to have ---- FORGIVENESS and TRUE COMPASSION especially to those that harm us. Of course it doesn't mean that we allow them to slap us over and step all over us... but to use wise, peaceful and logical methods like what ds.com and ISC has been doing which is inspiring. Though some of us may not agree with harsh words, tone and manner they use, but when you actually see them chant, you realise they are not harsh haters of the Dalai Lama... just trying to make their point in action that was created by the Dalai Lama.

And if the Dalai Lama was really Chenrezig... I also see how crazily compassionate the Dalai Lama is to allow this to happen to him. He too would have seen this all coming with His clairvoyance. Such is the illusory play of the divine... I can never imagine!

Sadhu sadhu sadhu 

Matibhadra

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Re: Sinful to discriminate on basis of religion, says Dalai lama
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2014, 08:41:31 PM »
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YES YES YES Surely HH Trijang Rinpoche could see through and beyond if this Dalai Lama was a fake evil being.

Indeed, that's why he made it very clear that the evil dalai is just driven by his sick jealousy of Dorje Shugden.

And even if he had not made it clear, it is still anyone's personal responsibility to deify or not the evil criminal, and to use or not the name of the Buddha or Chenrezig to justify such a criminal and his crimes, thus becoming or not an accomplice criminal oneself.

In your case, you have chosen to deify the criminal, to use the name of the Buddha or Chenrezg to justify the criminal and his crimes, and to become an accomplice criminal yourself, but you infantilely try to shift to Trijang Rinpoche the responsibility for your own depravity.

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Why confer him all the initiations for?

This was Trijang Rinpoche's duty as the tutor of the evil dalai. That the evil dalai did not improve his character is only his own fault.

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So he could harm and bring more being to hell?

You are just trying to blame Trijang Rinpoche for the faults of the evil dalai. Then you should blame the Buddha, who gave the teachings which eventually were handed down to the evil dalai.

We are responsible for our own choices. If you choose to deify an evil criminal, you should grow up and accept the responsibility for your choice, instead of trying to blame Trijang Rinpoche or the Buddha.

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That sounds a bit silly.

Agreed. The funny thing is that you keep saying silly things even while being aware of their silliness.

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Now we cannot go on the route to say HH Trijang could have been wrong, cos my my that would mean we're no different from Dalai Lama... then we're all in the same boat!

Again, you try to blame Trijang Rinpoche for your own accomplicity with a criminal and his crimes. Trijang Rinpoche told us what does it mean to be a Buddhist and to take refuge in the Three Jewels. Now if instead you want to be a proselyte of the sinister personality cult of the evil dalai, go ahead, but at least have the balls to assume the responsibility for your own choices instead of blaming Trijang Rinpoche.