Is this Good or Bad karma for FPMT?

[dsiluvu]

I can't help but to wonder if seeing these images of Lama Yeshe's incarnation Osel Hita in Maui, Hawaii is good or bad karma for the students in FPMT? I wonder how Lama Zopa must be feeling when a Tulku returns and does not continue His dharma work? When Lama Zopa passes into clear light, sorry to say this, what will happen to FPMT?

Also why is it that suddenly Osel Hita who was meant to be in the monastery, study, become a great Geshe and return to continue the legacy of his work, suddenly left? Is it because of the hypocrisy he was experiencing and the karmic repercussion of His students who basically betrayed their Guru to follow politics and ride on the temporary glory and fame of the Dalai Lama. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-broken-samayas-of-fpmt/ 

So who is their Guru? Dalai Lama or Lama Yeshe? Even when Lama Zopa 

[dsiluvu]

“When I said ‘they can change their minds and they can become more harmonious.’ Lama didn’t speak but he put up his hand strongly. Somehow he just didn’t accept. This was quite close to the time of his passing away.’”

Lama Zopa Rinpoche

 

Lama Zopa Rinpoche talked briefly to the people attending Lama Yeshe’s funeral, Wednesday March 7th,1984 at Vajrapani institute.

Lama Thubten Zopa Rinpoche I am just very numb, I can’t think of anything. But I thought I would try and say a few words regarding the recent happenings.

This year, not only our incomparably kind guru, Lama Yeshe, but also His Holiness Ling Rinpoche and his Holiness Tsenshab Serkong Rinpoche have passed away. And other lamas not common to us, other high lamas have passed away as well, this year in India. Whatever other people say, I don’t know, but my own way of thinking is that because of our karmic vision there were great obstacles in His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s forty ninth year. So, it became kind of a choice, according to our karma; either His Holiness passes away or other lamas pass away.

The main thing is: we sentient beings who receive guidance from these high lamas, these holy beings, we simply don’t have enough merit. You see, the vase, the vessel, is too small. Even if there is one very large pot of nectar, all of it cannot fit into that small vessel. I think that is the main problem. These high lamas, His Holiness and all these high lamas, including Lama Yeshe, they do not fit us, they do not fit. Because of our small merit, they just do not fit. They are like a huge burden that we cannot carry.

We need to have incredible merit for all these holy beings guiding us to have a long life. But there is a shortage of merit—even if there is no dharma contact and we do not have guru-disciple relationship. And to those with whom we have had dharma contact we have done many things to cause a shortage of their lives, for them to not stay in that aspect to guide us. We have caused it.

As it is with high lamas, so it is the same regarding Lama’s passing away. And it is not something that suddenly happened. Lama planned it some time ago; there have been many preparations. Last year when Lama was in France, for example, he told Denis Huet, the director of Vajra Yogini Institute—he is very close to Lama, in Lama’s heart—he told Denis: ‘I will leave my body at New Year.’ I said to Denis, ‘But Lama must be joking!’ He said, ‘No, Lama is serious.’ I told Denis that he should write to Lama and explain to him all the reasons why he should live long.

So, it’s not as if Lama was an ordinary person without any choice in death, not like that. And recently, just before Lama left Dharamsala, almost every day, over and over, he would be saying things like, ‘If I don’t die then I will do this; if I don’t die…’ Always death, always conversations involving death, all the time.

That morning, just before completing the past year, also Lama’s forty-ninth year, Lama asked me to do the Heruka sadhana with self-initiation with him. Even though Lama was in the aspect of heavy sickness he was able to keep straight and do the Heruka self-initiation. I know that if I had had such problems I would not even remember om mani padme hum. Even when I am healthy I cannot remember it; when I am sick— impossible! I would only have thoughts of my sickness, nothing else.

Anyway, soon after we had finished the sadhana I had some kind of hesitation in my mind, a feeling that something heavy might happen. But I couldn’t decide on the basis of Lama’s holy body whether he was going to pass away. So I said to Lama, ‘Please, you should consider recovering soon because the students understand the dharma. They’re very intelligent and they can change their minds and they can become more harmonious.’ When I said ‘they can change their minds and they can become more harmonious’ Lama didn’t speak but he put up his hand strongly. Somehow he just didn’t accept. This was quite close to the time of his passing away.

So I think we can understand from Lama’s signal, quite tough, that he could not accept. We can see from that, it is clear.

Recently, I heard that if you make a mistake with one guru, that pollution will cause you to make mistakes with other gurus, even though in the first place the mistake was only with one.

However, the main point is that Lama did not accept, he did not respond. But since our mind is not oneness with anger, not oneness with ignorance, not oneness with attachment, as everybody knows: since they are not mixed with our mind, since it is possible to separate them from our mind, then I think we should attempt to subdue the mind and develop a good heart. And in that way harmony will come. This, then, becomes pleasing to Lama—even though no longer the same aspect—and becomes the best offering and a cause for him to reincarnate quickly and guide us. Again we will be able to enjoy the continuous nectar of the profound and extensive teachings of Lama.

I think the most pleasing thing at each center, the first thing, the most important thing is to be able to develop one’s own mind, to practice bodhicitta and patience as much as possible, to develop a good heart. Then, you see, that center will really develop, it will have an incredibly good vibration, harmonious and with no confusion, and just by being there people will be able to generate realizations easily. People will want to stay there, they will want to do retreat, they will want to do things. This is the best way to develop a center.

Just to talk generally about the development of the center, about teachings, without relating it all to one’s own mind, makes the dharma something in the sky. You can’t point out the teachings somewhere in the sky. We must relate them to our own mind, our own life. That is the best offering to the Lama, that is fulfilling Lama’s wishes.

If you were to have a competition between the centers it should be in relation to dharma practice and the development of the mind, not material.

Three years ago, when Lama was in Spain, he gave some instructions to Jampa Chökyi about what we should do when he passed away. First, he requested her to translate texts to be used when he passed away, then there were ceremonies to do. The students should recite Vajrasattva mantras and do Vajrasattva practice for one year at Lama’s holy body, ‘then they can keep my body for one year.’ I have discussed this with His Holiness Song Rinpoche and he advised that we have a cremation. But I think that Rinpoche’s wishes and Lama’s wishes are the same thing, there is no problem. ‘Then, wherever my body is, all the students should come and they should do Vajrasattva. recitation for one year without interruption.’ Lama told Jampa Chökyi. This means that people can come and go, as long as there are people there continuously reciting.

Lama requested that the students receive a Vajrasattva initiation: His Holiness Song Rinpoche will give one tomorrow. ‘After my death there should be a Vajrayogini self-initiation’: that is exactly what happened already. Then, Hayagriva initiation: this is difficult to do here. Then, Yamantaka initiation: we will do a Yamantaka self-initiation this evening. Also, Lama wanted us to do Cittamani self-initiation and Guyasamaja self-initiation. And yesterday, we did Heruka self-initiation.

I think we should discuss the Vajrasattva meditation. Either everybody can come to the place and do the one-year retreat or, if that’s not manageable then I think we can make a statue of Lama at each center and the students of that country gather there to do the retreat. Otherwise I think we can do it at Kopan. According to the observations made, the choices were either Kopan, Spain or New Zealand retreat centers, but Kopan came up twice. I think it’s because it’s the place where all the centers started, you see.

Lama’s relics will be distributed to all the centers and can be put in either a stupa or a statue of Lama. We are planning to make a large statue of Lama in the form of a monk but having the Vajrasattva mudra holding bell and vajra. Also His Holiness the Dalai Lama has advised us to make one statue of Lama and a thangka of the Thirty-five Buddhas. So, everything comes to the same thing, I think it is something that the organizers can discuss.

Mainly I thought I would talk a little about how Lama is learned: about his enthusiastic perseverance, his loving, good heart. But I don’t need to say much, you have met Lama so many times, so you know. I don’t need to repeat again Lama’ qualities.

However, all the dharma knowledge that we have, all our opportunities to purify, to accumulate merit, to plant seeds of the entire path to enlightenment by practicing sutra and tantra—all this comes from Lama. Before we heard Lama’s teachings our mind didn’t have the dharma. There was no refuge no understanding of or faith in karma, no understanding of happiness and suffering. Our mind was completely dark. Now, we have some dharma knowledge, we have opportunity to practice even such profound methods as tantra every day. All this, all merit, all this dharma knowledge, came from Lama. First we listened to his lecture then inspiration came. So, we should re member the kindness of Lama all the time.

His Holiness Song Rinpoche said, even we have studied with other geshes at the centers, the centers that Lama started, it is all due to the kindness of Lama, it all cam completely from Lama.

I would like to thank everybody who sent money for Lama’s operation, all the donations. And to thank you so much for all the prayers: all the time I was sending instructions to the centers to do this and do that. So thank you for everything you did. Maybe it is because of those prayers that Lama lived even a few more months.

And I would like to say thanks from my heart to the Vajrapani people who have worked so hard, in the past and now at this time. They have worked with such dedication, doing their work so well without confusion, being so harmonious together. would like to offer thanks to the nurses who took care of Lama, they had such hardship And the doctors: thank you so much to them.

I think that’s all. If we follow Lama’ wishes, every piece of advice, if we put it all into practice, then I think it will become the quick cause for Lama to reincarnate soon. Maybe he will even come to America! I’m not sure!

When FPMT threw away what their Guru has taught them, their practice, especially Dorje Shugden practice to be "politically correct" then why would their Lama return for? It is like saying, you know better than the Lama, so why do you need a Lama? Not only did they do that, they've encouraged others to backbite, gossip, and create schism by telling others negative things about Dorje Shugden, other Lamas and centres... very heavy karma there.

It seems nothing has transformed internally. And it is sad indeed to see FPMT degenerate where Dharma has become about looking "right" and "good" for the moment. 

[shugdenpromoter]

Personally, what I feel is that the situation with Lama Osel & FPMT is still not that severe. Reasons being

1. Lama Zopa is still around
2. Lama Osel is still in contact with FPMT

The problem will start when Lama Zopa manifest more illness/sickness & Lama Osel disappears off the radar. Then FPMT is in a whole lot of trouble.

IF FPMT students do not realise that the driven force of a successful dharma organisation/monastery is the relationship between the teacher & the students. NOT all the students of Lama Yeshe has forgotten what has passed down to them. I am sure there are some who adhere strictly to the instruction but unfortunately majority don't. And some even tries to engage all sort of ritual to kill the practices like Shugden so that they will be in the good books of HH.

The teachers/lamas are inherently very kind, they came to this world purely to benefit all sentient beings. That is their nature. Lama Osel will use all sort of methods to "teach" his students, as long as he is still within the radar of FPMT, there is still a chance.

I have heard of high lamas who return in this previous life who completely disappear due to the broken relationship with their students and their centres/labrang is just an empty shell. Their attendants/students can talk all they want about the past & the lama's glory but nothing currently to show. Sad but true.

[DharmaDefender]

I actually think Lama Osel is hiding in plain sight. Because he is a lay practitioner hes not subjected to all of the political games that FPMT play. So the ban has no effect on him - he can do as he pleases and the CTA have no say in the matter. That and hes an inji so they REALLY have no control over him.

When Lama Zopa finally manifests clear light (which I hope will not be for a long long time), then Lama Osel can step up to the plate. By that time, the ban (I hope) will be over and Lama Osel can continue his work free from the shackles of politics.

I hope.

Theres a lot of hope in my message because well obvs I cant tell the future!

[dsiluvu]

Thanks Dharma Defender for your perspective which I must say looks more on the positive side of Lama Yeshe's manifestation now.

Yes indeed there is still "hope" and I too do "hope" he will return and continue his legacy and protector practice when the time is right. That would also require for the FPMT students to actually have the "good" karma and "merit" for their root Guru to return to them.

So another "hope" is... I hope the students of Lama Yeshe in FPMT would create the correct causes and conditions to have the opportunity for their Guru to return and definitely schism and negative speech about anyone should be stopped. Breaking saghas and people's faith in their Lamas is one of the biggest, heaviest heinous crimes.

So yeah I do "hope" for the best for the Lamas and hope they will continue the precious lineage teachings of what their root Guru have taught and given them... like Dorje Shugden's practice. If it wasn't for Dorje Shugden's help, Kopan will not be where it is today and that is a fact.   

[Positive Change]

I actually think Lama Osel is hiding in plain sight. Because he is a lay practitioner hes not subjected to all of the political games that FPMT play. So the ban has no effect on him - he can do as he pleases and the CTA have no say in the matter. That and hes an inji so they REALLY have no control over him.

When Lama Zopa finally manifests clear light (which I hope will not be for a long long time), then Lama Osel can step up to the plate. By that time, the ban (I hope) will be over and Lama Osel can continue his work free from the shackles of politics.

I hope.

Theres a lot of hope in my message because well obvs I cant tell the future!

Now this is a most interesting hypothesis which I can totally understand and agree with. I liken it to HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche who has taken a similar "path"... It makes their work of spreading Dorje Shugden "easier" so to speak and as such they are in prefect position to take the stage when the time is right!

I believe it is all a divine play for the good of all sentient beings and we have to be firm in our beliefs and convictions to aid in the removal of the ban some way or another!

[Big Uncle]

It is really hard to really gauge what the outcome would be. Although it seems really negative that Lama Osel is 'manifesting' in this manner but we must not forget who he is. He is a great tantric practitioner and definitely one that has realized Bodhichitta. Hence, I believe it is just a manifestation and perhaps, like some one said that he had position himself beyond the reach of CTA and the whole ban. However, there is no proof that he is practicing Dorje Shugden in this life. He has not left any clue whatsoever. But that does not mean that he is not practicing or will not practice in the future. I do hope that when the ban does come down, more of previous lives imprints of Lama Yeshe would come back.

[icy]

I would rather believe that it is only a divine play that Lama Oser has manifested in his present state and devoid himself from FPMT.  I pray that the ban on Shugden will be revoked soon and faith will be restored to all the students in FPMT for their Shugden practice to resume and their samaya can be repaired to enjoy the benefits of Guru/Disciple relationship with Lama Oser.  Thus, FPMT's work can spread and flourish forever more.

[DharmaSpace]

@ICY now I think about it yes, the only thing that has not been tried or has happened yet is that the Dorje Shugden ban has not been lifted. Yes it is true nothing is ever impossible.

The thing is, history knows that the main person who founded FPMT and was instrumental to the formation of FPMT it was Lama Yeshe true and true. And the only reason a lama cannot manifest his buddhahood could be due to vows or promises that are broken. FPMT being the anti Dorje Shugden that is have become there is no room for discussion and no room to interpret anything differently from what FPMT dictates. 

Hence when Lama Osel was training at FPMT he could not do the Dorje Shugden practices anymore, and that could have created much pressure and obstacles to arise in his mind. Mind you before Lama Yeshe came to the West his past incarnations probably also practiced Dorje Shugden. What Lama Osel had done parallels what Phara Rinpoche had done which was he went gambling, became a policeman and so forth, seemingly undharmic actions or so we are led to believe. The very people behind FPMT have some soul searching to do about Lama Osel their main founder's incarnation not willing to step up to the mantle of leadership. 
 

[fruven]

Do the disciples of Lama Yeshe see their guru as enlightened or not enlightened? It is very scary to think of how one can affect the guru life so much. From what I gathered even the disciples have broken the refuge vows when they go to so much length to discredit Dorje Shugden and the practices. They must stop blocking people from choosing what to practices ie freedom of religions.