What is the Right View of The Dalai Lama

[fruven]

Can he still be considered a "Buddha" because of these negative actions?

Leaving aside the Abrahamic associations of the terms ”sin” and ”sinful”, a buddha, or even a high bodhisattva such as Chenrezig, by definition, are never sinful. Having destroyed the mental afflictions, such as anger, lust, and ignorance, it is impossible for them to engage in any iniquity or harmful action.

Meanwhile, the evil dalai himself fully recognizes that ”discriminating people on the basis of religion is sinful”. Since this is precisely what he brazenly, unapologetically, and relentlessly does for decades, it follows that the evil dalai himself fully admits to his own sinful, unholy, perverted character.

Therefore, since a buddha, or even a high bodhisattva, by definition, can never be sinful, unholy, perverted, and since the evil dalai himself fully admits to being sinful, unholy, perverted, it follows that the evil dalai, by his own admission, cannot be a buddha or a high bodhisattva such as Chenrezig.

Besides, the evil dalai being, by his own admission, a sinful, unholy, perverted character, it follows that trying to justify, glorify, and even sanctify him, calling him a ”buddha”, or a ”high bodhisattva” such as Chenrezig, is actually tantamount to defaming, degrading, and disparaging buddhas and high bodhisattvas.

The 'evil dalai' is the creation of your mind as I understand. Therefore what you say is mute because the living Dalai Lama never says such things. Even if Dalai Lama admit on such wrong doings because he is a Buddha he doesn't accrue any negative karma based on the definition as you stated. Furthermore to your definition that Buddha doesn't engage in negative and harmful action it means what you see now as negative to you but to Dalai Lama no harm is done from his side. If you don't have the negative karma to receive harm you won't see Dalai Lama actions as negative due you seeing him as the Buddha.

For lay people to lead others to wrong understanding and creating more doubts on Dalai Lama you create tremendous negative karma. That is a fact.

[fruven]

The Dalai's lama's lectures and teachings are amongst the most profound I have encountered.

You are probably under the influence of some collective hysteria. The ”teachings” and ”lectures” of the evil dalai are mainly political garbage, and even the Dharma words he mechanically repeats are utterly uninspiring, bereft as they are of any sincerity and heart feeling.

You arguments hold no water compare to the Dalai Lama because obviously he has done more for others. Without the Dalai Lama the Buddha Dharma won't have spread to the West. A beginner in English would obviously get the advice given by Dalai Lama on being a kind hearted human.

[fruven]

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Because despite what DL is doing to Dorje Shugden, there is also a lot of other positive things he has done to bring Vajrayana Buddhism to its prime in the West. That we have got to give credit for. If it was not for HHDL, Vajrayana Buddhism would not take root so easily and quickly in the West.

The very root of Vajrayana is reliance on the guru, and the evil dalai derides, defames, and discredits his own root gurus, such as Ling and Trijang Rinpoches.

Therefore, there is zero Vajrayana brought by the evil dalai to the West or anywhere else, and actually the evil entity only brought the disgrace of his own broken vows and commitments, and of instigating people to break their own vows and commitments.

Thus, as far as the evil dalai is concerned, there is nothing we have got to give credit for, except for the example of what not to do, which is a shamefully poor performance for a self-styled ”Chenrezig”.

You can see Dalai Lama broken his vows and commitments? By your logic you are equal to Dalai Lama's guru? Dalai Lama is going strong with his "broken" vows and commitments it seems.

If one is instigated and influenced by others to do negative actions it says something about how strong is their reliance and devotion to their gurus. Others can instigated us to break our vows and commitments and we don't have to follow and listen to what they say. The Dorje Shugden practitioners choose to listen to their gurus compare to those who don't. The anti-Dorje Shugden practitioners have a choice of not hurting the Dorje Shugden practitioners.

[fruven]

The is no right or wrong view about HHTDL. Only He knows what is His true motivation.

What an unwarranted statement. Samsaric beings in general, and people severely affected by Jekyll and Hyde multiple personality disorder, popularly know as schizophrenia, such as the evil dalai, in particular, are mostly unaware of their own motivations.

Actually, your statement implies that the evil dalai is a buddha, because only buddhas can be fully aware of their own motivations. But since you claim that there is no right or wrong view about the evil dalai, it follows that you are not aware of, and do contradict, your own statements.

You are aware of Dalai Lama motivations?
You contradict your statements as well.

[fruven]

Buddhism often talks about the motivation behind an act and not the act in itself. However if an action resulted in suffering then that is also a fact. But Buddha also taught that that is the nature of samsara. There will always be suffering in samsara regardless what caused the sufferings.

I don't buy any of the arguments given here. There's a lot of "blind" faith talk here and no real logical reasoning. Everything is about how one perceive Buddha and if one perceive HHTDL to be a Buddha. Perception, perception. We can argue till kingdom come but it still boils down to how one "choose" to perceive a Lama. What is the truth? As ALL of us are supposedly in samsara, we are all subject to wrong views and perceptions. So no two person can perceive the same truth. Your truth will always be different from my truth....and yet we constantly wants to argue our truth is the caoorect one. It's just your perceptions. Everything is just a matter of who's better at convincing people.

The is no right or wrong view about HHTDL. Only He knows what is His true motivation. The rest is just up to every individual to decide for themselves what view they choose to accept as most convincing or convenient to them.

The Buddha taught us to collect merits and purifies our own karma to be free of suffering. Indeed the actions that cause others more suffering is a fact. The reason why motivation is mentioned here because both motivations and actions contribute the suffering. It is not just actions alone. The lack of wisdom is the reason why we act wrongly even if we have good motivations. Therefore to accumulate more wisdom we need to gain merits by having a guru to instruct us. The guru is someone who can convey the essence of Dharma teachings and practices to us. I wish you luck and patience in learning more here. There is a General Buddhism section for you to clarify fundamental Dharma questions. Happy learning 
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?board=10.0

[Lineageholder]

Lineageholder what would you say to the passage above?

I would say that I applaud your ability to hold onto a pure view in the face of a montain of evidence to the contrary. Trijang Rinpoche is not saying that the 14th Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara, he's saying that in general the Dalai Lama is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara. Many people believe that the wrong person was chosen to be the present Dalai Lama because of the Reting Rinpoche's deception. Please read the story and make up your own mind.

http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/dalai-lama/the-false-dalai-lama/

Quoting is scripture is all very well but we also need to use our own intelligence and wisdom to come to sound conclusions. There's nothing beneficial about the Dalai Lama's actions which are against his own Teacher and lineage so I have to conclude that 'Tenzin Gyatso' is not the Dalai Lama but a falsely chosen destroyer of Buddhadharma who is more likely to be an incarnation of Ishvara than Gendundrub.

[psylotripitaka]

Regardless of your view, this shit needs to stop!

To common appearance he is a human being acting like a dictator and causing immense suffering. He lives in human society, he must follow the laws of this society or face the consequences.

I understand being protective of your karma and your pure view, but focussing on all the 'good things' this man has done to the point of defending his actions in human society is really disgusting and surprising to hear from Buddhists. In human society, normal people don't consider such things as whether or not someone's actions are those of a Buddha, nor would they agree that it is ok for someone to do what he's doing because people call him a Buddha. His actions are wrong, and they will be stopped.

[Matibhadra]

focussing on all the 'good things' this man has done to the point of defending his actions in human society is really disgusting and surprising to hear from Buddhists.

So true. This shows that these so-called ”Buddhists”, having taken refuge in a dastard criminal as opposed to the Three Jewels, are not Buddhists at all; rather, they are just dalaites, the followers of an evil, sinister personality cult.

In human society, normal people don't consider such things as whether or not someone's actions are those of a Buddha, nor would they agree that it is ok for someone to do what he's doing because people call him a Buddha.

Again so true. This shows the deeply anti-humanistic, obscurantist nature of the sinister dalaite personality cult, together with its medieval witch hunts.

Besides, those who use the name of the Buddha to justify crimes against humanity not only disgrace the Buddha and his Dharma, but also are criminals in their own right.

[Matibhadra]

There's nothing beneficial about the Dalai Lama's actions which are against his own Teacher and lineage so I have to conclude that 'Tenzin Gyatso' is not the Dalai Lama but a falsely chosen destroyer of Buddhadharma who is more likely to be an incarnation of Ishvara than Gendundrub.

So true. Surely an incarnation if evil, a despicable maniac worth being ejected from human society together with his minions.

[Matibhadra]

The 'evil dalai' is the creation of your mind as I understand.

Of course the notion evil is relative. For people like you taking delight in evil, evil is imagined as ”good”, and there is only ”good” evil dalai.

Therefore what you say is mute because the living Dalai Lama never says such things.

Of course the evil dalai will never say that he is evil. It is quite naive for you to expect that he would.

What he says is that ”discriminating people on the basis of religion is sinful”. Since however, he does discriminate on the basis of religion, it follows that he does recognizes his own sinful, evil character.

This is part of the evil dalai's Jekyll and Hyde, schizophrenic, multiple personality disorder. He has to preach goodness in order to cover his own sinful, evil actions.

Now, if you choose to rely on what the evil criminal says about himself, rather than on what he does, this is itself an evidence of your own identification with sinfulness and evil.

Even if Dalai Lama admit on such wrong doings because he is a Buddha he doesn't accrue any negative karma based on the definition as you stated.

You try to justify the dastard criminal saying that he is ”a buddha”. This only shows your own connivance with his crimes, and therefore the lack of reliability of your statement.

Furthermore to your definition that Buddha doesn't engage in negative and harmful action it means what you see now as negative to you but to Dalai Lama no harm is done from his side.

Since a criminal never sees harm in his own evil actions, then, according to your depraved logic, every criminal is necessarily a buddha.

If you don't have the negative karma to receive harm you won't see Dalai Lama actions as negative due you seeing him as the Buddha.

Then, according to your logic, since you did not receive harm from the 9/11 attacks, you won't see the terrorists' actions as negative, because you see the terrorists as the Budddha.

Coming from a dalaite as you, I'm not surprised anyway.

For lay people to lead others to wrong understanding and creating more doubts on Dalai Lama you create tremendous negative karma. That is a fact.

You are offending me. I'm not creating ”doubts” about the criminal character of the evil dalai. I'm creating certainties, based on reliable cognizers such as direct perception and inference, which thoroughly destroy any incorrect assumption or even remaining doubts about the dastard criminal, the evil dalai.

[Matibhadra]

You arguments hold no water compare to the Dalai Lama because obviously he has done more for others.

This is just in an infantile ad hominem argument. My arguments are neither better nor worse depending on my personal virtues of lack thereof.

Anyway, no matter how much I would try, I could hardly do more for the harm of others than the evil dalai.

Without the Dalai Lama the Buddha Dharma won't have spread to the West.

Whatever Dharma there is in the West or anywhere else does not come from the evil dalai, because the very foundation of Dharma is reliance on the guru, which the the evil dalai thoroughly lacks.

A beginner in English would obviously get the advice given by Dalai Lama on being a kind hearted human.

Rather, he would develop only revulsion for Dharma, being under the influence of the evil dalai, or revulsion for the evil dalai's crimes, being under the influence of Dharma.

[Matibhadra]

You can see Dalai Lama broken his vows and commitments?

Considering the evil nature of the criminal, he probably never had vows and commitments in the first place so that he could break them.

Anyway, for a dalaite like you, disgracing one's gurus and creating schism within the Sangha must be virtuous actions, which explains why you cannot see any broken vows and commitments in your fetish.

By your logic you are equal to Dalai Lama's guru?

Not yet, but eventually. This is the power of reliance on a pure guru. Feel free to try yourself instead of your fetishistic reliance on an evil criminal.

Dalai Lama is going strong with his "broken" vows and commitments it seems.

Funny, I just see weakness. For instance, his ridiculous show of lack of composure and self-respect in front of the peaceful nun in California, his persistent jealousy and fear of supposed spirits, his subservience to his Western puppet-masters, and so forth. But for a perverted dalaite these are signs of ”strength”.

If one is instigated and influenced by others to do negative actions it says something about how strong is their reliance and devotion to their gurus.

And it says a lot as well about the depravity of those instigating and influencing others to do negative actions, as the evil dalai does.

Others can instigated us to break our vows and commitments and we don't have to follow and listen to what they say.

So true. This is a good reason not to break one's vows and commitments through deifying and taking refuge in evil, as represented by the evil dalai.

The Dorje Shugden practitioners choose to listen to their gurus compare to those who don't. The anti-Dorje Shugden practitioners have a choice of not hurting the Dorje Shugden practitioners.

Anti-Dorje Shugden people, engaged as they are in creating schism with the Sangha and disparaging their own lineage gurus, do not qualify as Dharma practitioners to start with. Their only sensible choice is to give up their sinister fetish, the evil dalai, and to help putting him where he belongs, the garbage bin of history.

[Matibhadra]

You are aware of Dalai Lama motivations?

Since it is only you claiming that the evil dalai is a buddha, it follows that it is only you claiming to be a buddha yourself, because only a buddha can know whether or not someone else is a buddha.

Now, since it is only you claiming to be a buddha, it follows that it is only you claiming to know the evil dalai's motivations. Therefore, you should ask the question above only to yourself (which is quite ridiculous, since as a buddha you should know everything).

You contradict your statements as well.

The original gbds3jewel's claim was that ”there is no right or wrong view about the evil dalai”, which contradicted his other claim that ”the evil dalai is a buddha”, because the latter claim is itself a claim to a right view about the evil dalai.

Therefore, the conversation you intruded is not about just blabbering, as you did, that there are ”contradictions” in someone else's statements, but about showing why and where there are such contradictions, which you did not do.

[DharmaSpace]

Quote from: DharmaSpace on April 19, 2014, 05:52:42 AM
Lineageholder what would you say to the passage above?


I would say that I applaud your ability to hold onto a pure view in the face of a montain of evidence to the contrary. Trijang Rinpoche is not saying that the 14th Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara, he's saying that in general the Dalai Lama is an emanation of Avalokiteshvara. Many people believe that the wrong person was chosen to be the present Dalai Lama because of the Reting Rinpoche's deception. Please read the story and make up your own mind.

http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/dalai-lama/the-false-dalai-lama/

Quoting is scripture is all very well but we also need to use our own intelligence and wisdom to come to sound conclusions. There's nothing beneficial about the Dalai Lama's actions which are against his own Teacher and lineage so I have to conclude that 'Tenzin Gyatso' is not the Dalai Lama but a falsely chosen destroyer of Buddhadharma who is more likely to be an incarnation of Ishvara than Gendundrub.

The Dalai Lama is very beneficial and he puts us Buddhist in the forefront of people's minds and around the world. It is because of the Dalai Lama that Buddhism is considered modern, progressive and contemporary. Which has a lot of knock on effects it is easier for other buddhist organisations to get followers, donations and etc. From where I am standing the Dalai Lama is highly beneficial for Buddhism and not a demon of Ishvara at all.

Yes Dalai Lama said Trijang Rinpoche is incorrect but he also allowed Trijang Rinpoche to carry on practicing Dorje Shugden, isn't that something to indicate to you that all is not to be taken literally and all it seems? Could it be the 'fox' stumbled and fumbled in allowing Trijang Rinpoche to practice and become a rallying for a lot Gelug lamas and supporters around the world to rally around?  The 'fox' who can hold his own with physicists and the top minds of the world, 'fumbled'? Yeah right.   

If the Dalai Lama was indeed Ishvara as you and your organisation claim, then during the debate exams the examiners, the teachers of the 14th Dalai Lama Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche, all lamas who validated the 14th dalai lamas, monasteries are all fools made by the Tibetan 'Loki'. If such deception can be pulled on Trijang Rinpoche what does it say about the students of Trijang Rinpoche are they also of that quality as to not to be able to recognise a fraud? So where does this end if you call the Dalai Lama as fake? When you take on the personality of the Dalai Lama you have to be able to step into those shoes. It is not as easy as a picnic in Hyde Park.   




 

[Matibhadra]

The Dalai Lama is very beneficial and he puts us Buddhist in the forefront of people's minds and around the world.

Having broken his guru-disciple bonds, the evil dalai does not have Buddhism in the forefront of his own mind, and thus cannot put Buddhist in the forefront of the minds of others. For instance, what is in the forefront of your own mind is not Buddhism, but rather the sinister personality cult of dalaism.

It is because of the Dalai Lama that Buddhism is considered modern, progressive and contemporary.

Considered by whom? By Western political propaganda, according to which bloody medieval tyrannies such as Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Israel, etc. are also ”modern, progressive and contemporary”?

Now you were caught yourself red-handed accepting and promoting the brutal theocrat, the witch hunter, the evil dalai as ”modern, progressive and contemporary”. This shows where you come from.

Buddhism does not need the endorsement of Western anti-humanity war propaganda, which picked the evil dalai as their poster boy in order to promote their own evil political agenda.

Which has a lot of knock on effects it is easier for other buddhist organisations to get followers, donations and etc.

Your mind has been corrupted by the mundane concerns with followers and donations, and therefore you support the evil dalai. This shows how corruption and the sinister personality cult of dalaism go hand in hand.

Your basic idea is: ”I don't care if the evil dalai is a criminal violator of human rights, as long as he brings money to me and to my organization.” Therefore, you are not only corrupt, but an accomplice of his crimes and violations.

From where I am standing the Dalai Lama is highly beneficial for Buddhism and not a demon of Ishvara at all.

You are standing, or more exactly crawling, in the deep pit of corruption, or of the eight mundane concerns, such as money and fame at any cost, and therefore very far from any concern with what is beneficial for Buddhism.

As to the evil dalai being ”Ishvara” this is too generous. He is just an ordinary criminal and a ridiculous puppet of Western powers, not better than any Pinochet, Pahlavi, or Suharto.

Yes Dalai Lama said Trijang Rinpoche is incorrect but he also allowed Trijang Rinpoche to carry on practicing Dorje Shugden,

The evil dalai had no choice. The criminal is not as powerful as some project.

isn't that something to indicate to you that all is not to be taken literally and all it seems?

Who would care about taking literally or not the commands of a criminal? Only the criminal's minions, as exemplified by you.

Could it be the 'fox' stumbled and fumbled in allowing Trijang Rinpoche to practice and become a rallying for a lot Gelug lamas and supporters around the world to rally around?

This only shows the power of the lineage, which the evil dalai could no break, no matter how much he tried.

The 'fox' who can hold his own with physicists and the top minds of the world, 'fumbled'? Yeah right.

Your ”physicists and top minds of the world”, just like the evil dalai, are mostly mercenary academia- and media-promoted materialists, bereft of any philosophical worth.

Besides, their friendly dialoguing with the evil dictator says a lot about their own accomplicity with oppressive regimes and religious persecutions, and therefore their utter lack of any humanistic worth.

Anyway, the day you find any meaningful insight coming from such ridiculous, masturbatory, mutually self-promoting, dialogues please report here.

If the Dalai Lama was indeed Ishvara as you and your organisation claim,

I'm not aware of any organizations making such a claim. Lineagerholder made it, but he was too generous seeing Ishvara in an ordinary criminal.

then during the debate exams the examiners, the teachers of the 14th Dalai Lama Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche, all lamas who validated the 14th dalai lamas, monasteries are all fools made by the Tibetan 'Loki'.

Surely they were not fooled by the evil dalai. That's why the evil dalai repudiates them, and they repudiate the authority of the evil dalai.

If such deception can be pulled on Trijang Rinpoche what does it say about the students of Trijang Rinpoche are they also of that quality as to not to be able to recognise a fraud?

So much they do recognize the fraud that they don't accept the evil dalai's authority. You are the only one here accepting it, which says a lot about you.

So where does this end if you call the Dalai Lama as fake?

It ends in people like you, supporting the gross fakery motivaded by your confessed corruption and addiction to worldy concerns such as money and fame, and people like any pure Buddhist practitioner, rejecting the fakery and keeping with their pure vows and commitments.

When you take on the personality of the Dalai Lama you have to be able to step into those shoes. It is not as easy as a picnic in Hyde Park.

It is not easy indeed to be a Jekyll and Hyde multiple personality psychopath criminal, such as the evil dalai. But admiring him as you do, you are on the right way to soon step into similarly dirty shoes.