What is the Right View of The Dalai Lama

[Matibhadra]

Your angle strongly focusses on the appearance of worldly conventions and I couldn't agree more, but it isn't that easy for a disciple of the DL.

There is no such thing as Buddhist disciple without a Buddhist guru. Since the evil dalai, having spurned his own root gurus, lacks any Buddhist lineage, he is not a Buddhist, let alone a Buddhist guru.

Therefore, there is no such thing as a Buddhist disciple of the evil dalai.

[psylotripitaka]

I completey agree with you, but because his disciples, some of whom write on this site, don't see it that way, they are left trying to resolve their inner conflict, which is a complex spiritual labyrinth. Not easy to read about Guru devotion and the dangers mentioned in the lamrim, to then denounce and abandon that Guru callin him a non-Buddhist.

Lama Tsongkhapa does say in such situations it is permissible to respectfully distance ourself from the Guru. There's a subtle karmic dance going on so people need to take care. Your points though are very sound indeed.

[DharmaSpace]

The Dalai's lama's lectures and teachings are amongst the most profound I have encountered.

And he just does not teach to wide eyed Buddhist born again types who gasps at his every word that he speaks. He speaks to world leaders, captains of industry, scientists and quantum physicists and from the debate that is going on here is that, Dalai Lama is con artist and he can fool all such people or pull a cloth around people's heads. Really now? 

If he is so clever and devious (the cunning fox that he is the Chinese love to call him ), why did he say publicly that it was alright Trijang Rinpoche to practice Dorje Shugden? Do we think the Dalai Lama cannot see without magical powers that Dorje Shugden practitioners will rally behind Trijang Rinpoche at some point in the future. People who hate the evil dalai, thinks he is foolish old man, not a Buddha. Think again. The Dalai Lama did not put Buddhism at the centre stage of the world by fumbling and being silly or
deception.   

[dondrup]

Due to our impure mind, we have ordinary views and ordinary conception of all phenomena. Ordinary conception is any mind that conceive objects as ordinary.

Hence unless we have pure minds like the Buddhas, all appearances to us are ordinary. All the actions by His Holiness Dalai Lama (DL) in relation to the ban appeared to us as wrong because they are against the worldly conventions. This is an example of an ordinary view.  At the conventional level, it is wrong for DL to break the samaya with His guru by saying his gurus and all the Gelug lineage masters were wrong about Dorje Shugden.  It is wrong to abandon Dorje Shugden who is an emanation of Buddha Manjushri. It is wrong to discriminate against Dorje Shugden practitioners who are also sentient beings. It is wrong to remove the basic human rights of the Tibetans who practise Dorje Shugden. It is wrong to create schism and to cause harm to Dorje Shugden practitioners. The list is not exhaustive.

Since we are not at the level to comprehend the higher motivation of DL in imposing the ban, we should refrain from condemning DL. Since DL is recognised as Chenrezig, His actions will definitely be for the overall  well-being of everyone.

It is the collective karma of all Dorje Shugden practitioners to experience the effects arising from this ban.  Once the karma to experience the ban is exhausted, the ban shall come to an end.

[WisdomBeing]

It is also interesting to me that the supposed great nemesis of the Dalai Lama - Geshe Kelsang Gyatso - who is singlehandedly responsible for the largest growth in Dorje Shugden practice in the Western hemisphere, has not publicly condemned the Dalai Lama. Perhaps his minions have gone out to say Dalai Lama stop lying, and Give Religious Freedom, but he himself has not said anything.

Likewise with HH Trijang Rinpoche, HE Gangchen Rinpoche, HE Gonsar Rinpoche and many other Dorje Shugden lamas. They have not said that the Dalai Lama is a fake. At least not that i have heard of.

So perhaps we should follow the example of the higher minds who can see more than any of us lay people?

[psylotripitaka]

I applaud the practitioners here who maintain a strong stance of Pure View, much like Pema Chodron, but this does not alter the fact that the DL is in human form in human society and needs to face the consequences of his criminal behavior.

Also, Dharmaspace, as I've shared, I don't believe there is a contradiction between pure view and dealing in a practical way with things according to common worldly conventions. Also, people keep talking about this permission to Trijang Rinpoche and Trijang Dorjechang giving transmissions having some clairvoyance to know who the DL really is. We need to also understand that due to certain conventions, certain actions must be taken in order to maintain harmony. For example, due to their relationship with the Tibetan community, someone who has deep respect for Dorje Shugden and Trijang Dorjechang has to alter their outer relationship with the Protector, through relying upon him through Yamantaka and Guhyasamaja practice or in complete inner secrecy, not because they agree with the DL, but because of how it would affect their many students and relationships if they didn't alter their outer aspect.

And WisdomBeing, the Venerable Yogi Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche has spoken out publicly against the DL. The condemnation is not of the DL, but his criminal actions against humanity and Je Tsongkhapa's lineage. Just because someone may be an emanation of a holy being does not exempt them from the laws of the human world in which they are operating, Period!

[samayakeeper]

The great leaders of the world have to know more about what the Dalai Lama is doing to the Tibetan people and also non Tibetans who are followers of Dorje Shugden. These great leaders may not be Buddhists and they could not care less if the Dalai Lama is a Bodhisattva or not. What they would care of is why would a man who preaches love and compassion, while wearing one mask, then changes to another mask, and condemns another person’s spiritual belief. All it takes is just one Head of State to notice and say, “Hey, something is not right with this man, the Dalai Lama, is he a wolf in sheep’s clothing?”  Hence the continuous efforts of the people behind this wonderful website and also thanks to the many voices of its viewers will bring to light to the world, the plight of those people suffering and being unjustly condemned just because of their spiritual belief.

@WisdomBeing
Even though other great masters who are continuing with the spread and initiation of Dorje Shugden’s practice have not publicly spoken out against the Dalai Lama, they also did not stop their students and benefactors from protesting either. I wonder why.

[Lineageholder]

What is the valid basis for believing that the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara? Because, shockingly, he said so in Washington recently? These days anyone who says they are a Buddha probably isn't. It is just blind faith that believes that the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara when his actions are not compassionate. This is from a Tricycle interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso from 1998:

Lopez: Do you believe that the Dalai Lama is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara?

GKG: If he is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara why he is causing so many people suffering? Why is he causing the spiritual life of so many people to be destroyed? Now there is big confusion. Since His Holiness the Dalai Lama removed Shugden statues from Gelugpa monasteries and temples and claimed that Shugden is a worldly, harmful spirit, people throughout the Buddhist world have begun to have doubts about the general dharma of the Gelugpa tradition, and in particular the dharma of Je Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoche. Now you can see the belief pervading everywhere that these lamas and their tradition are invalid and impure. How can His Holiness the Dalai Lama do this, unless he thinks that the dharma taught by Trijang Rinpoche is not the real dharma? What he is doing now is putting great effort to destroy the Dharma taught by his own spiritual guide. This is a very horrible example, because every Buddhist practitioner believes that relying on the spiritual guide is the root of the path and the very essence of the practice. He is showing that the lama or spiritual guide doesn’t matter. How can Avalokiteshvara do this?

Check the Dalai Lama's actions, they are not those of Avalokiteshvara.

[psylotripitaka]

Excellent Lineageholder, thank you.

[dsiluvu]

What is the valid basis for believing that the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara? Because, shockingly, he said so in Washington recently? These days anyone who says they are a Buddha probably isn't. It is just blind faith that believes that the Dalai Lama is Avalokiteshvara when his actions are not compassionate. This is from a Tricycle interview with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso from 1998:

Lopez: Do you believe that the Dalai Lama is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara?

GKG: If he is an incarnation of Avalokiteshvara why he is causing so many people suffering? Why is he causing the spiritual life of so many people to be destroyed? Now there is big confusion. Since His Holiness the Dalai Lama removed Shugden statues from Gelugpa monasteries and temples and claimed that Shugden is a worldly, harmful spirit, people throughout the Buddhist world have begun to have doubts about the general dharma of the Gelugpa tradition, and in particular the dharma of Je Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoche. Now you can see the belief pervading everywhere that these lamas and their tradition are invalid and impure. How can His Holiness the Dalai Lama do this, unless he thinks that the dharma taught by Trijang Rinpoche is not the real dharma? What he is doing now is putting great effort to destroy the Dharma taught by his own spiritual guide. This is a very horrible example, because every Buddhist practitioner believes that relying on the spiritual guide is the root of the path and the very essence of the practice. He is showing that the lama or spiritual guide doesn’t matter. How can Avalokiteshvara do this?

Check the Dalai Lama's actions, they are not those of Avalokiteshvara.

Good points from Geshela however, I could also hypothetically say that the Dalai Lama may be causing all this to cleanse out all the weak, hypocritical disciples of the pure Gelugpa lineage. Only those who are stong, devoted, sincere and with pure Guru Devotion intact would continue loyally with their Guru? I'm not saying that this is what DL is doing... I am just trying to see another possible angle to all this. Because despite what DL is doing to Dorje Shugden, there is also a lot of other positive things he has done to bring Vajrayana Buddhism to its prime in the West. That we have got to give credit for. If it was not for HHDL, Vajrayana Buddhism would not take root so easily and quickly in the West. This includes Geshela's work and many others like Lama Yeshe for FPMT. BUT That does not mean what He is doing, banning Dorje Shugden is right, that is for sure... yet if it was not because of the ban, do you think we would be working this hard to promote the TRUTH?

I stand on Trijang Rinpoche's advice to watch my speech and to be aware of my thoughts regarding these divine illusory play of these Highly attained Lamas.

[dsiluvu]

I applaud the practitioners here who maintain a strong stance of Pure View, much like Pema Chodron, but this does not alter the fact that the DL is in human form in human society and needs to face the consequences of his criminal behavior.

Also, Dharmaspace, as I've shared, I don't believe there is a contradiction between pure view and dealing in a practical way with things according to common worldly conventions. Also, people keep talking about this permission to Trijang Rinpoche and Trijang Dorjechang giving transmissions having some clairvoyance to know who the DL really is. We need to also understand that due to certain conventions, certain actions must be taken in order to maintain harmony. For example, due to their relationship with the Tibetan community, someone who has deep respect for Dorje Shugden and Trijang Dorjechang has to alter their outer relationship with the Protector, through relying upon him through Yamantaka and Guhyasamaja practice or in complete inner secrecy, not because they agree with the DL, but because of how it would affect their many students and relationships if they didn't alter their outer aspect.

And WisdomBeing, the Venerable Yogi Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche has spoken out publicly against the DL. The condemnation is not of the DL, but his criminal actions against humanity and Je Tsongkhapa's lineage. Just because someone may be an emanation of a holy being does not exempt them from the laws of the human world in which they are operating, Period!

Psylo I see where your views are coming from... yet we are all still very much tainted and can only like you said "deal in a practical way with things according to common worldly conventions". YES wordly conventions which also says we ourselves do not have the ability to truly really judge anyone for that matter.

Yes the actions created and caused by HHDL is definitely wrong and well, what happened to the democratic temporal central administration that is suppose to abide by the laws of democracy. Aren't they the ones that is suppose to implement or disband anything that is not right in the democratic constitution? HHDL also has retired from the political aspects, so what happened to CTA? Why do they execute, implement such horrible discrimination? They are the ones posting up a hit list of Shugdenpa High Lamas and people all around the city. Now you are probably going to say well they have no backbone and they execute whatever HHDL says, but isn't this not right?

I mean the Queen of England does not dictate the laws and policies of Great Britain's democratic parliament and the PM does his job accordingly. So if CTA has no backbone, then the CTA is a really like a fake government that is not doing their job, hence that should be renewed. Besides DL has also said that this life may probably be the last of the Dalai Lamas and if there is no need for a 15th, then this will be it. So, isn't it more important to polish up better leaders?

All I am saying is that while we can agree to disagree in the view of the Dalai Lama, we should not let the CTA get away scotch free and perhaps look in to a better temporal govt. for the Tibetan exile community too.

If the government is Buddhist as it claims, then they should be banning the Bon (this is hypothetical and I am not suggesting that the TGIE ban the Bon religion at all). Bon is clearly identified as non Buddhist, but they are allowed to attend the Dalai Lama’s teachings and their children allowed to attend schools etc. Banning Gelug monks who propitiate Dorje Shugden seems like favoring outsiders over one’s family.

I think the Tibetan Youth Congress is also being giving the heat... http://www.dorjeshugden.com/controversy/articles-controversy/point-7-resolution-passed-by-the-tibetan-youth-congress-1997/

[psylotripitaka]

Dsiluvu,

All the 'Dharma-training-karma-creating-so and so Lama said-elaborate discussions aside, the bottom line is

The DL is in a human body living in human society and him along with the CTA (which he still runs though not by title) have broken the laws of Dharma and International Human Rights and it is entirely appropriate that they be held accountable.

Whether we maintain pure view of the DL, or have compassion for the DL as a sentient being, we are training our mind in Sutra or Tantra. This is our own personal decision. But, according to common appearance, the DL is a human being and his actions require practical human intervention to stop the harmful behavior.

[Matibhadra]

the DL is a human being and his actions require practical human intervention to stop the harmful behavior.

So true. A poisonous snake might be a buddha, but still has to be treated as a poisonous snake. The same applies to Jack the Ripper, Osama bin Laden, or the evil dalai. We cannot know whether or not they are buddhas, but we can know that they are criminals, and as such they should be treated.

Now, why those propounding a ”pure view” of the evil dalai do not build shrines to and prostrate themselves to Jack the Ripper or Osama bin Laden, calling them ”His Holiness” as well? Where is their ”pure view”?
   

[Matibhadra]

The Dalai's lama's lectures and teachings are amongst the most profound I have encountered.

You are probably under the influence of some collective hysteria. The ”teachings” and ”lectures” of the evil dalai are mainly political garbage, and even the Dharma words he mechanically repeats are utterly uninspiring, bereft as they are of any sincerity and heart feeling.

[Matibhadra]

So perhaps we should follow the example of the higher minds who can see more than any of us lay people?

Why not to follow the teaching of the Buddha and judge for ourselves, according to direct perception and inference?