How Do You Think The Ban Would Come To An End?

[Big Uncle]

The Dorje Shugden ban is now already 34 years old since its first mention in 1980s by the Dalai Lama. It has gone through stages where the ban has brought about a frenzied witch hunt, persecution, segregation between practitioners and non-practitioners, expulsion of monks and the eventual split of great monasteries like Gaden and Sera into Shar Gaden and Serpom monasteries respectively. Now, there is talk that the Dorje Shugden ban is coming to an end. I am just wonder how this all going to pan out... I have thought of a few scenarios. Let me know what you think about these scenarios and if you have another theory...

The ban is going to come down...

1.When the Dalai Lama enters clear light. The process is more gradual and may take decades before it dies out when no lama dares to go against the Dalai Lama's ban.

2 The Dalai Lama suddenly announces that the ban is over and gives whatever reasons for it and allows the practice to resume and orders the Serpom and Shar Gaden to join back with Gaden and Sera. 

3. CTA takes matters into their own hands and order that the Tibetan state be governed secularly and fairly. No religious is allowed to be in place. They respectively tell the Dalai Lama that the ban to be left within the jurisdiction of the monasteries and the governing bodies with the monastic tradition.

4. The Panchen Lama, Karmapa or Trijang Rinpoche takes the helm after the Dalai Lama enters clear light and stops the ban.

What do you guys think?

[gbds3jewels]

The definition of ban itself means is has to be legally or officially prohibited. So in a way since HHTDL has no official politically power, he cannot really impose any ban per say. For example, is DS practice banned in Australia? Technically I would say no, it's not. The ban is not officially and legally endorsed by the Australian government. So similarly I would say DS ban is not and could not have been imposed legally in any country per say. So I say the ban has absolutely no clout over anyone anywhere around the world. I haven't studied the CTA authority so I guess perhaps the only implications are on Tibetan refugees still under the political governance of CTA. For those Tibetans who hold other nationality since their exile from Tibet, the ban doesn't hold unless it is imposed legally by their country of nationality.

I don't think the ban would wait for HHTDL to enter clear light to come down. I would like to see the ban come down during HHTDL reign, reason being HHTDL is not the enemy or culprit of the ban and it is not fair for history to mistakenly remember him as such. I would like to see HHTDL finally revealing the true reason behind the ban and the whole world in awe and gob smacked at the brilliance and sheer compassion of Buddha.

[Galen]

Let's hope that the pressure from the international community will make the CTA decide to lift the ban. The ban affects all Tibetans and it is rightful that the government itself restore the freedom for its people. Then, at least the CTA's reputation of being the Dalai Lama's puppet can be removed. This is at least a government can do for it's people. Then maybe, there will be more support for them to negotiate with China for the autonomy they wanted.

[bonfire]

BAN LIFTED BY TDL:
For the lifting to be definite and without discussion, it would have to be lifted by the person who installed it.

BAN LIFTED BY OTHERS:
The ban being lifted by any other person would not be as clear and without discussion and the debate would continue.

Now, I ask, in the second scenario above, the lifting would also require a stronger faith, more resilience, more determination, more intelligence, more clarity, and therefore perhaps more results and more merits and thus be preferable?
Well, maybe, but I guess it also depends whether we have created enough merit for us to be reaching the conditions to create even more...
My 2 cents worth...

[icy]

May the Dalai Lama live long! 

As I see it, the day when the l4th Dalai Lama enters clear light the ban will naturally die a natural death.  Tibetans cannot find another Lama of this caliber to take over the place of l4th Dalai Lama.  Every Tibetan knows this well enough including the Dalai Lama.

China and Panchen Lama will pick the l5th Dalai Lama and the Dalai Lama will resume in the Shugden practice.  The time and place will be China the world super power in economy and populace.  Hence, Dorje Shugden practice will spread by leaps and bounds.  It will cross borders because of China's influence.  China  will be looked upon as the world leader and trend setter. 

Meanwhile, all Shugden Lamas whether secretly or openly are already poised to conqueror the world with Shugden practice.  There will come the Dorje Shugden Renaissance.  Nothing can silence this Great Protector nor stop its practice to spread like wild fire for his time has come.

[shugdenpromoter]

Tibetan Buddhism ever since it has "left" Tibet has been so scattered all over the world. The tibetans has in a way lost control of the development of its "religion" for the better and also the worst. On top of this from losing their country, the Tibetan government from being TGIE (Tibetan Government In Exile) has been demoted to just CTA (Central Tibetan Administration) today and I am not surprise if they continue to be demoted to just an office. It does speak volume about the people behind the Tibetans.

With regards to the ban, I feel it is important that HH brings the ban down himself as CTA themselves as for the reasons above will not be in a right position to do so. The ban has to come down by hook or by crook, I always believed that what HH is doing with all the other Gelug lama around the world is like a chess game, a game or stage to make Shugden main stream for the benefit of all.

I do hope HH live to 100yrs of years, and I sincerely pray that HH himself lift the ban down himself soon.

[Dondrup Shugden]

The most effective manner for the BAN to be lifted would be for the Dalai Lama to announce it.  The person to impose the BAN should also be the person to remove it.

As anyone not within the jurisdiction of CTA can without fear practise the worship of Dorje Shugden, the Ban is in effect not encompassing.  However to make it ok for Tibetans to practise openly, it is just as important. The reason being Lamas who teaches the lay practitioners need to be giving guidance for this powerful practices.

As I see it, the Ban would be lifted by the Dalai Lama, the CTA will stop the persecution of Tibetans who worship, the Lamas with knowledge will surface. 

The Dalai Lama is one of the most respected Buddhist Lama of the world and being as attained as he is he will know the time to lift the Ban.

My wish is to it to be now.

[maricisun]

With the amount pressure put to the Dalai Lama and the CTA, the ban should be lifted by the Dalai Lama who imposes the ban.
The Dalai Lama should lift the ban after so many years as we can see after so many years there are still so many strong supporters and DS practitioners who wanted the ban to be lifted.
Let's hope the time will come soon for the Dalai Lama to finally realise it and call for the lifting of the ban soon.

[AnneQ]

My first instinct was to choose option 4.
The Panchen Lama, Karmapa or Trijang Rinpoche takes the helm after the Dalai Lama enters clear light and stops the ban.
Because ideally that would be the easiest way for the ban to be lifted and to start a fresh new era free of persecution and violence.

But then I also like and agree with what gbds3jewels said below.

I don't think the ban would wait for HHTDL to enter clear light to come down. I would like to see the ban come down during HHTDL reign, reason being HHTDL is not the enemy or culprit of the ban and it is not fair for history to mistakenly remember him as such. I would like to see HHTDL finally revealing the true reason behind the ban and the whole world in awe and gob smacked at the brilliance and sheer compassion of Buddha.

Despite the prejudices I feel towards HHDL and the imposition of the ban, I must agree that the Dalai Lama is still and must continue to be a respected Buddhist leader and spiritual voice in our modern world. And like most of you who have posted your comments here, the best man to remove the ban is the one who started it in the first place.

[DharmaSpace]

I feel the CTA is the weakest link for this ban, and they are just doing their 'job' because it is orders from the top. We must give lots of knowledge and information to the CTA and the people around them about the lies they have been fed so they can no longer implement the ban and no one else wants such a job.

I mean why would anyone do something and enforce something when the very basis for the ban changes from time to time, is illogical, hurts people brings no benefit for the Tibetan cause, in fact as news about this ban gets more coverage in international media, CTA has nothing to hide behind. The Dorje Shugden ban is not good publicity for the political or spiritual side of Tibet. Not one benefit for the Tibetan people or their cause for freedom. Why do something that has no 'profit' and benefit?

[psylotripitaka]

I just saw a video someone shared of two people who were late to recent protests so protested on their own. A messenger from the DL comes up and says 'this is not about religion it is spirit worship.

So, why keep asking him to give religious freedom when he doesn't view it as religion. I still have yet to see anything conveying the impact of human rights abuse. Why?

The DL is never going to lift the ban just because of people protesting or giving him something with names on it. He will only do so when he is pressured or forced by people with power who see it as a human rights issue. Continually making it about religion and Buddha vs Spirit dialogue is in my opinion the main reason we're not getting anywhere with him. His hand must be forced, and the necessary people will not take such action as long as its always presented principally as a religious issue. If the ISC were out there saying 'Dalai Lama Stop Abusing Human Rights' instead of yelling insults and emphasizing religious freedom, guarantee people would pay alot more attention, and his own followers might even consider it more deeply.

[Rihanna]

I read with much interest all the possible scenarios and thoughts published here. They are all valid and very possible. The most distinct of all the reasons would be CTA restores the freedom of it's people by lifting the ban so that they are in a stronger position to negotiate with China for the autonomy they wanted, in short, freedom for Tibet. Unless there is something in it for CTA that is to their benefit, only will they do something about lifting the ban. Or CTA is being pressured to remove the ban by countries that they receive aid from otherwise any form of support or aid will be pulled back. Under such scenarios only will CTA budge because they are personally affected.

Another thought I have is: one morning we wake up and the ban is lifted and it came from the horse's mouth. Just as how ridiculous the ban was imposed suddenly, refuting all logic and history, the lifting of the ban can also happen the same way. Why would we be even surprise then judging from how illogical this ban was imposed even to begin with?

[psylotripitaka]

I've been going mainly off what I see in public news. Well, I just spoke with a friend from the ISC and have to say Wow! The multi-pronged approach taking place is very thorough and absolutely unbelievable. Here are a couple things that were pointed out to me that I found encouraged by.

- Today at the Rotterdam protests there were over 400 people including 150 Tibetans from various regions
- Extensive video footage showing different responses to the ban and protests
- Special human rights abuse packets to the press, rights groups, government officials etc
- Embarrassing the venues that invite the DL getting them to look more carefully at who they're paying so much money to bring out
- Encouraging many Tibetans especially those who have immigrated to democratic countries
- Various other amazing things I won't mention

[Aurore]

This has crossed my mind numerous times. I have no such clairvoyance to do such predictions. What I can be sure of is HHDL implemented the ban to grow Dorje Shugden's practice for it will bring about a Buddhist renaissance as predicted by many erudite masters. Dorje Shugden will be that catalyst to make that happen.

The ban shall not be lifted as long as Dorje Shugden's practice stay stagnant. Therefore, Shugden practitioners plays an important role in making that happen by practicing and spreading DS practice. When this happen and I truly hope it does, it is truly an amazing thing cos it means many people are practicing DS. Famous high lamas may emerge and come out from the closet overshadowing HHDL's one man power. The Karmapa is next to kin and is currently being polished to spiritual celebrity status.

During then, HHDL may likely say,"It is my duty to advice you. Since you all go against my advice, you shall do whatever you like." Alternatively, HHDL enters clear light and Karmapa lifts the ban.

[Gabby Potter]

I have a very strong faith that if we all worked together peacefully, the ban will surely be lifted very soon. The ban has been going on for so many years,and it has caused so much problems to the people such as separations, violence, discriminations etc, these should come to an end already.