Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[Atishas cook]

Big Uncle - forgive my harsh tone.  my intention is to overcome doubt and prevent inappropriate actions amongst our people caused by confusion.  for example, i am so deeply disappointed and worried by the threat letters: these are a huge mistake and we need wisdom to prevent such things happening again or the consequences will be disastrous.  i think that comments in this thread demonstrate how harmful and confusing this view of the FDL as a Mahasiddha can be if we're not advanced Tantric practitioners of Pure View.  if we ARE, great - please practice in secret.  if we're not, please practice Sutra and develop compassion for the FDL as a deeply confused mother being.  either way, we need openly and explicitly to oppose the ban by every legal, moral means available such as (but not limited to) demonstrating.

then, wrt Trijang Rinpoche's advice re. our view of the False DL, i agree that he had no reasonable choice but to say this - much as Je Phabongkhapa had to promise the 13th that he wouldn't go against his decrees again.  i think anyone with knowledge of the situation and the people involved would be able clearly to see that these statements where not meant to be taken literally!

wrt criticizing the FDL directly, as opposed to simply criticizing his actions: i understand our people's discomfort at these ad hominem attacks.  however, i think that they are a valid tactic, and one that we need to use now.  we've tried arguing the inconsistencies and faults of the ban over and over, and we've requested dialogue again and again.  this is having some effect, but maybe not enough, and not quickly enough.  some people, seeing this, have recently made huge and very dangerous mistakes such as sending the letters.  we need to act powerfully, but legally, and within our vows and precepts.  because he has failed to bend to our criticicism of the ban, the next step is ad hominem attacks aimed at destroying his reputation.  after all, the ban only has power through his speech; if he won't lift it we can negate it by disempowering his speech and taking away his reputation.  for that reason, i have no issue calling him a liar and the worst dictator in the modern world.

[grandmapele]

Well said, Solomon Lang. why else would a Buddha of Compassion institute this ban? Why his statements do not tie up and not make sense given that he won a Noble Peace prize and is articulate? But, there's a lot heavy negative karma to expunge, though.

[Blueupali]

Well Barack Obama also won a noble peace prize.  I have always assumed he is the Buddha Padmasambava, though I guess  I don't have the CTA's backing....
  The point is--- you know--- we can see anyone as a Buddha--- but when someone is destroying Buddhism then we don't need to sit by and say--- oh well, a priori---- he one a Nobel peace prize and therefore is the Buddha of Compassion or some guys decided he was the reincarnation of the Buddha of Compassion, so he must be---- therefore be quiet, sit down, and do as he says, okay? 
  Actually, I do like Barack Obama, and I personally think he might be Padmasambava; but you know, it doesn't generally make a lot of sense to walk around telling people that political leaders are Buddhas.  If so, then we should complete the inner view of them, and say it's okay to completely ignore anything they say with their mouths.  So when a Buddha wants to teach in a tantric way, it's not like we have to remain like quiet and polite sutrayana disciples.  Tell him he's wrong, if that's the way his actions appear to the world.  That people won't say he's wrong in many cases means they don't really see him as the Buddha of anything but are scared of the oppressive dictatorial god-king guy.  Just like people have always been afraid of the oppressive dictatorial king/god-king guy.
  So when did Nobel start recognizing Buddhas?
 

[Lineageholder]

Hers a question for you.

Is there any benefit in any emanation of Buddha showing the example of calling their Teachers wrong if those Teachers were sincere and highly realised practitioners?

[Blueupali]

Hers a question for you.

Is there any benefit in any emanation of Buddha showing the example of calling their Teachers wrong if those Teachers were sincere and highly realised practitioners?

Only to get us not to listen to anything the emanation who is telling us his highly realized teachers are wrong.  In other words, if a Buddha wants to do reverse activity, like calling Trijang Rinpoche and other Shugden teachers wrong, then that Buddha wants us to outwardly acknowledge him as not a Buddha, and ignore him, or peacefully demonstrate against him, and separate religion and state. (Though feel free to keep up internal views as your practices indicate, always following the Buddhas).
  However, though that COULD happen or something, I feel very tired of having to always deal with the fact that people expect me to say the Dalai Lama is a Buddha; if we are practicing that everyone we see is a Buddha--- okay--- but that is a practice and also we act normal externally.  So if I see someone beating someone else up, rather than just thinking, look two Buddhas displaying fistfighting so we will see the faults of anger, I can think that, but also call the police to stop the conflict.
  I get tired of the everyone has to see the Dalai Lama in particular as an infallible Buddha thing--- because that is just brainwashing to me; where is the actions that follow the (during some teachings) words of compassion?  Where is the logic that he is acting in a kind way?  Where is his logic at all?  I'd say, again, if I have to choose a Nobel peace winner who is an emanation of Buddha, my money is more on Obama--- though teaching in reverse a lot of course--- but I don't have to say that to people--- because no one thinks the American president is Buddha Chenrezig....
  In reality this thing where everybody has to think the Dalai Lama is a Buddha is part of the brainwashing from his giving the tantra teachings too much worldwide and people (maybe including him, I don't know) misunderstanding the tantra.  So, in the story of Marpa and Milarepa, Milarepa was very devoted to Marpa, and was also attaining enlightenment--- including an 11 year retreat in one life.  He had real faith in Marpa--- not blind faith.  We are supposed to examine the teacher first, and the teacher is supposed to examine us.  This Dalai Lama guy, you know, he is a guy to me.... he is someone that got picked to be the reincarnate lama that has been head of state---- so--- he is the god-king, but also he gives "tantra" to the west--- technically a vajramaster is supposed to be a Buddha---- at least according to (recently dissolved from Nirmanakaya into Dharmakaya temporarily) Shamar Rinpoche.  So everybody runs around saying this is the Buddha of Compassion.  He can do no wrong!  Yeah?  Well, that's very convenient for a dictator---- these same people would say I don't understand, I have no faith, I am spirit worshiping.... so how is it I have no faith when I know that Buddhas are omniscient and infinitely compassionate.  I just don't believe people who are beating me over the head saying that guy is a Buddha so follow his every command.  No.  I won't do it.... can you get real or something?

[WisdomBeing]

Just one and a half cents:

The Dalai Lama received his serendipitous Nobel Peace prize because the West wanted to tell China to ease off. That's all. After all, what had the Dalai Lama done that deserved the Peace prize?

Perhaps it was because he was a deposed head of government. There are other deposed heads of government who never received the peace prize.

He taught the Dharma. So do other monks. Is he better than other monks? But he is a "buddha" - the Buddha of Compassion. But so are so many other incarnate lamas?

My issue with this view of the Dalai Lama as infallible is that once you realise the emperor has no clothes, everything crumbles. Everything. It is difficult to distinguish the dharma he has taught. It is difficult to distinguish his kind acts. All because we suddenly realise that he is human. It's like suddenly realising santa claus is mom or dad.

He says his tutors are wrong. And as Samayakeeper says earlier.. he can't judge because he is not wearing the robes. The Dalai Lama is wearing the robes.. Does that mean that he is right to condemn his gurus? Does that mean he is right to condemn Dorje Shugden?

[dsiluvu]

Firstly Welcome back Atishas Cook... nice to see you here and the rest of the crew 

Well this whole thing about Dalai Lama being a Mahasiddha... who knows really. Me being not a mahasiddha or mahasiddhi, not even a sangha, can't judge that but will judge the actions of a person who basically is creating civil war amongst it's own people and not to mentioned the destruction of Vajrayana Buddhism as a whole and that MUST BE STOPPED!

We can choose to be skillful in our speech... ok some will say don't condemn the Dalai Lama so harshly... it's not good, bad karma, take Trijang Rinpoche's words literally etc etc etc, ok great - do it! And some say TELL IT TO HIS FACE using what we call SHOCK TACTICS to get attention, TO GET PEOPLE TO STOP AND LISTEN. To me it is really all about your motivation isn't it? I am sure no one here wishes anything ill of harmful to be done to the Dalai Lama per se, as one human to another, as real Buddhist, but we do for sure want the violence, the threats, the discrimination, condemnation, the BAN to STOP. 

This issue has become more than just a Shugden issue.... the bigger picture would be... haha... I know u hate that word Atisha, but yes I'm gonna use it here... "the biger picture" is and has become a HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSED ISSUE OF THE WORST KIND OF RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION! Which the Tibetan Leadership is now very desperately trying to cover up by saying "Hey there is no ban and there never was, everyone's got their IC". OMG when you here your PM speaks like that, what would you have do? Wish there was no karma and throw a few eggs on him LOL! It's now a global issue people when we look at the humanity aspect of this.

Honestly i personally do not know if DL is a Mahasiddha or not... whatever... He has his own Karma to deal with... but I am certainly not going to sit around to say IT IS OK FOR HIM TO TEACH PEACH AND THEN GOES AND RUN A HITLIST ON HIS OWN PEOPLE. NOW that is CRIMINAL MOTIVE and that is some the world needs to know. CTA cannot go on operating this way and basically getting away with MURDER! This is still samsara, binded by HUMAN LAWS so we USE HUMAN LAWS which is accepted by EVERYONE to STOP this HARM before it gets bloodier.

You think the Tibetans who goes to His talk cares about Buddhism and Karma? If they do, they would not have spat, show their fist and middle finger at the protesters, imagine if you guys were in Dharmasala?! IT would have been more violent! They do showcase behaviours of a very much deluded psychotic violent society likened to a following of a CULT yet they condemn us to be a CULT. It is hilarious and SCARY!  No matter what logic present to them, they will not listen but only SPIT IT OUT AT YOU. SO this issue needs to be address from a GLOBAL STAND POINT ALREADY. How is it that the blooming CTA can get away which such bold threat on their webpage and no one gives a sh***?! Why haven't the UN step in to investigate? Who is corrupting who to shut up and let it be? This is more my thoughts!   

So yes DALAI LAMA PLEASE GIVE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. YOU ARE A POWERFUL MAN, YOU CREATED THIS MASSACRE, ONLY YOU CAN STOP IT. SO DO PLEASE STOP LYING, STOP YOUR CTA FROM LYING AND MANIPULATING YOUNG MINDS! 

[dsiluvu]

Perhaps this newly posted picture quote comes quite apt...



It should be this way... but it's NOT but it will CHANGE as all things are impermanent right?!  Says Buddha

[Atishas cook]

dsiluvu - that's the kind of bigger picture i'm happy publicly to get behind! 

[Matibhadra]

Given the above, and the postulation that H.H. Dalai Lama is a Mahasiddha,

Postulation? Then to you it is ”evident” that a bloody terrorist is a mahasiddha, is it?

[Matibhadra]

Why his statements do not tie up and not make sense given that he [the evil dalai] won a Noble Peace prize and is articulate?

Many war criminals, terrorists, and torturers won the Nobel peace prize, and are (or were) articulate. Henry Kissinger, Menachem Begin, Barack ”Drone” Obama, the list is long. It would be amazing ifhat the evil dalai would not have been awarded such prize!

Indeed, the Nobel peace prize is rather a propaganda tool aimed at glorifying mass murderers, as long as they murder according to the interests of US, Israel, or both.

But, there's a lot heavy negative karma to expunge, though.

Then, according to your logic, the hell's henchmen are all emanations of Chenrezig, compassionately helping hell beings to purify their ripened karma, right? Plucking their eyes, skinning and burning them alive, and so forth.

[jamyang_sonam]

I believe the ban that Dalai Lama enforces is an act of Mahasiddha, and HH is definitely one. Reason is ever since Tibetan escape and fled to India, Tibetan Buddhism started to spread throughout the world, but to truly to revive Buddhism and help Buddhism to create an impact, the Practice of Dorje Shugden is one of the most powerful protector in this degenerate age that one could ever rely on, and also the most controversial due to the origin.

 Ever since the band started, more and more people are connected to Dorje Shugden and its practice, and subsequently to Buddhism, with the centers like NKT, it has spread and reach thousand or even millions of followers, and because of this ban also created alot of attention due to demonstration.

[Matibhadra]

I believe the ban that Dalai Lama enforces is an act of Mahasiddha, and HH is definitely one. [...]
Ever since the band started, more and more people are connected to Dorje Shugden and its practice, and subsequently to Buddhism, with the centers like NKT, it has spread and reach thousand or even millions of followers, and because of this ban also created alot of attention due to demonstration.

Then, according to your logic, evil people intentionally spreading diseases are mahasiddhas too, because thanks to them more and more people look for doctors and medicine, and a lot of awareness is raised of the need for public health policies.

Also, evil people making wars and massacres are all mahasiddhas too, because thanks to them millions of lucky refugees escape to peaceful countries, and a lot of attention is created to the need of peace due to anti-war demonstrations.

Your logic of ”the worse the better” could be traced to the Jewish-Christian apocalyptic literature, where a lot of bad things, such as wars and other catastrophes, are welcome and even wished for, since they sign the advent of the ”messiah”.

Your logic lacks any Buddhist lineage. It is the very opposite of the lojong, because you wish for and rejoice on the suffering of others, believing that such suffering promotes your social group and deity, and thus your feeling of self-satisfaction.

Buddhism spread and flourished from Java to Persia, from Madagascar to Japan, throughout India, Central Asia, and China, without the need of bans, witch-hunts and persecutions, but only on the strength of the purity of its teachings.

Why would the practice of Dorje Shugden need to be banned in order to spread and flourish? Is it bereft of any good qualities, so that only a mythology of martyrdom would bring attention to it? Is there a need to add to the suffering in order to highlight its virtues?

Therefore, the deification of a terrorist, the evil dalai, as a ”mahasiddha”, together with his execrable deeds as the ”acts of a mahasiddha”, has nothing to do with Buddhism, or with the practice of Dorje Shugden, but only and strictly with subservience to an evil theocrat, and with a deeply ingrained, even if unconscious, accomplicity with crime and terrorism.

[psylotripitaka]

Are we beating a dead horse here?


1. We don't know who is and is not a Buddha unless we are a Buddha. Je Pabonkhapa even says in his Kangso that Dorje Shugden can appear in many aspects to tame living beings.

2. It doesn't matter if he is a Mahasiddha, his actions contradict the laws of human society and are causing much suffering. For you who view his ban as an act of a Mahasiddha, the main point of his actions then is for you to respond in the most appropriate ways - to actively cultivate compassion for suffering sentient beings, and to take compassionate actions to stop the ban that contradicts conventional human laws.

3. It is not a contradiction to regard someone as an emanation of Buddha while at the same time we take practical steps to confront and stop their inappropriate behavior in human society in order to protect people from suffering.

4. Whether we maintain faith he is a holy being or have compassion for him as a suffering sentient being, we are cultivating the continuum of virtuous minds in both instances, and that is the most important point, to train your mind incessantly in the liberating paths. If you are not actively cultivating these minds but simply getting lost in the labyrinth of intellectual activity, your precious opportunity to end samsara is slipping through your fingers!


 

[Matibhadra]

It is not a contradiction to regard someone as an emanation of Buddha while at the same time we take practical steps to confront and stop their inappropriate behavior in human society in order to protect people from suffering.

For instance, even if it is a who buddha emanates as a mad dog with furious rabbies, still the dog should be put in a cage.

In the same way, even if it is a buddha who manifests as a furious terrorist, such as the evil dalai, inciting mass murdering, mass suicide, and social convulsion and violence, still he should be put in a cage as much, in order to protect people from his ”blessings” (appropriately, a word derived from ”blood”).