Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[Big Uncle]

Here's an interesting description of a Mahasiddha...

Mahasiddha (mah?siddha, from maha meaning "great" and siddha meaning "adept"; Tibetan Wylie: grub thob chen po or Wylie: tul shug) is a term for someone who embodies and cultivates the "siddhi of perfection". They are a certain type of yogin/yogini recognized in Vajrayana Buddhism. Mahasiddhas were tantric practitioners, or tantrikas, who had sufficient empowerments and teachings to act as a guru or tantric master. A siddha is an individual who, through the practice of sadhana, attains the realization of siddhis, psychic and spiritual abilities and powers. Their historical influence throughout the Indic and Himalayan region was vast, and they reached mythic proportions as codified in their songs of realization and hagiographies, or namthar, many of which have been preserved in the Tibetan Buddhist canon. The Mahasiddhas are the founders of Vajrayana traditions and lineages, such as Dzogchen and Mahamudra. The mahasiddha tradition may be conceived and considered as a cohesive body due to their spiritual style, sahaja; which was distinctively non-sectarian, non-elitist, non-dual, non-elaborate, non-sexist, non-institutional, unconventional, unorthodox and non-renunciate.

Based on this explanation, could the Dalai Lama be using Mahasidddha-like intention by instituting this ban? This is considering that the Dalai Lama does not really stand to gain in any way. He literally put his reputation at stake here...
Just food for thought...

[kris]

I have heard about a theory that many of the great Lamas are working together in this degeneration age to spread Dharma, and each lama has a specific role in this great plan. Using the ban on Dorje Shugden is one of the ways to spread Dharma. An issue like this will make people to be curious to find out more about what happened...

As Big Uncle said, HH Dalai really have nothing to gain in this whole setup. It is totally against His teachings, and there seem to be totally no sense in implementing this ban. If this is not part of the great plan, then what is?

[icy]

In Tibetan Buddhism through tantric practices, extraordinary men and women attained enlightenment and magical powers abiding in the state of perfected level of meditative realization, inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion,  of emptiness and skillful means disregard conventions and penetrate to the core of life.   These Mahasiddhas showed us a way through human suffering are spontaneously one with the divine.  They lead unconventional lives which include some of the legendary renowned Buddhist masters namely Milarepa, Tilopa, Naropa and Marpa. 

Who are we to judge the HH Dalai Lama if he is or not a contemporary amongst these legendary masters and is beyond convention in instituting the ban.  If we wish to maximise on the profits of these crazy wisdom best we go along with the divine play with a pure mind and appearance.

[hope rainbow]

His Holiness is without a doubt an enlightened one.
His actions just speak for themselves.

What appears to be contradicting our perception of Him as an enlightened one is the ban over a Buddha... Why would a Buddha ban another Buddha?

Yet the analysis over the actions of His Holiness shows that in his whole life there has ever been only one appearing contradiction, only one: the ban on Dorje Shugden.

And while getting about talking about the ban, explaining it etc... His Holiness has said contradicting things, illogical things, silly things, false things... Why?
Why would a being of supreme wisdom, skills and intelligence be demonstrating perfection ALL THE WAY, ALL THE TIME, except when it comes to the topic of the ban versus Dorje Shugden?

Why if not to talk to our intelligence and logic and demonstrate to us that the ban is not a ban but a method to bring about the conditions for us to propitiate and actually practice Dorje Shugden.

If we had better merits, His Holiness and Dorje Shugden would not have to use this rather unusual and rather confusing method... But the fact is that we only have the merit to get into spirituality through scandal, bans, defamation, "taking-sides" etc.... because that is where our mind is...

In the current case, let's note that whether one is supporting the ban or not, they are participating to the growth of Dorje Shugden in people's minds, and everybody is getting to collect/create merit along the way...

Now, if this is not the work of a Mahasiddha in action, I mean what is it?

[shugdenpromoter]

I 100% believed that HH is a Mahasiddha.

An act of a Mahasiddha is not determined by what he does now but by the RESULTS his action brings. Because of the ban of Shugden 34 yrs ago, the practice has spread so wide. Take for example the following

1. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Centers and followers all over the world who practices Shugden. Do not just look at the physical counts but also those online. They might be bigger then a few non DS monasteries combine
2. Monasteries in Tibet/Sichuan itself with Shugden practitioners with the support of the Chinese government, the size of their statues are getting bigger. Not only that, the Chinese government are promoting these temples into tourist sites. More and more are being exposed to Shugden.

Just based on these 2 points above, it was all possible because of the ban of Shugden imposed by HH himself.

I think it is an act of a Mahasiddha, who doesn't want an easy life. By actual fact, when HH imposed the ban, HH has actually more bad publicity then ever. It is not easy for HH & his people. But to HH, the bigger picture is more important.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Yes, Big Uncle, I am very sure that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is using a very Mahasiddha approach when HH imposed the ban on Dorje Shugden practice. Since we are now living at the degenerate time (according to Lord Buddha), methods that were effective in spreading and teaching Lord Buddha's words more than 2000 years ago seemed to have changed.
Due to our deluded minds and obscured views, we are definitely not in the position to judge the emanation of Chenrezig on his holy actions based on our views. Due to the ban on Dorje Shugden practice, our protector king is known by many worldwide.

[Freyr Aesiragnorak]

I too agree with the sentiments of those who have posted comments before me. There is sure some illusory play going on here. After all HH Dalai Lama is Chenresig and Dorje Shugden is Manjushri. Therefore, out of great compassion and wisdom, this ban has led to the great protector Dorje Shugden to be known all over the world (though his practice still needs to be spread further) and not only that, but Tibetan Buddhism as well.

When the ban falls, which will be a joyous occassion indeed, I am sure that Tibetan Buddhism, and especially the Gelug lineage in particular will be spread even futher, and a great many people will benefit from the teachings and transform their minds, alleviating at their suffering.

[dondrup]

The reasons given by His Holiness Dalai Lama for the ban on Dorje Shugden are totally baseless. His Holiness himself is hypocritical about what he had taught and how he had acted. It is beyond our comprehension! His actions are unconventional and inconceivable! His actions in relation to the ban on Dorje Shugden are certainly the actions of a mahasiddha! How else could we describe His Holiness Dalai Lama who is believed to be an emanation of Chenrezig?

[psylotripitaka]

Mahasiddha or not, to the common appearance of the world he is a human being breaking the laws of human society and causing great damage and suffering to the BuddhaDharma and lives of many. Accordingly, these actions must be stopped.

[psylotripitaka]

Big Uncle,

Btw, I've read many stories about Mahasiddhas and wild lineage Gurus, but I can't seem to recall a single one who did anything even remotely close to what the DL is doing to cause international suffering and damage to the Buddhist tradition. What stories are you equating the DL's unacceptable actions with? I understand people trying to come to terms with what is going on, but such giving such praise of the DL in light of his actions seems like a continuous attempt to justify them. Everybody knows he's done some good things in the world, but these are overshadowed by the hypocritical behavior, behavior we should not constantly try to justify by saying its ok he's a Buddha. It is more important for those trying to figure out how to reconcile the situation to learn how to deal with the common appearance of a human being making huge mistakes. We can debate with ourselves and each other endlessly about whether or not someone is or is not a Buddha but the bottom line always will be that we do not know who is not a Buddha other than ourselves. However, even if everyone is a Buddha but me, I have ordinary appearance and in that the world appears to be full of humans with human laws and human suffering, so it is my duty to act with compassion for the suffering living beings I perceive, to pacify their suffering, not continuously justify the actions of the person causing their suffering. Whether or not the DL is a Mahasiddha is completely irrelevant. His actions are performed in a human body in human society and these must be stopped!

[yontenjamyang]

Many Mahasiddhas were recognized as Mahasiddha in retrospect many years after the manifestation of their controversial actions. These actions need to be against the expectations of the society at that time and later proven to be more beneficial than harm for the person to be called Mahasiddha. Otherwise, it is just as easily that we can call the person a monster. if the actions of Hitler were proven to be beneficial, we can call him a Mahasiddha!!?? A very controversial question to ask. I have no doubt Hitler was a monster. Nevertheless, there were people who loved him......but that is another matter.

My point is; to actually judge the Dalai Lama on the ban alone, we need to let things pan out. If at all the ban is somehow more beneficial than the harm it has caused, then we can say the Dalai Lama is a Mahasiddha. For now he has done much good for the world and Buddhism and much harm also with the ban. So I will let the results just if we can call him a Mahasiddha.

[Q]

Ok... next someone's going to ask if the ban is a new unconventional way that the Dalai Lama applied for all Shugdenpas to purify their bad karma through the sufferings they experience from it.

I have no doubt that Dalai Lama, is a Mahasiddha... a great, spiritual master. I also know that the Dalai Lama is entangled in politics and the ban is nothing more than a political move. Dorje Shugden is just used as a scapegoat... That is why many people that are smart enough to think for themselves can see through this and continue their practice despite having to listen to so many people slandering our Dharma Protector since a political ban has nothing to do with spirituality.

[Dondrup Shugden]

If as described by Tibetan text that the Mahasiddha style is ''DISTINCTIVELY non-sectarian, non-elitist, non-dual, non-elaborate, non-sexist, non-institutional, unconventional, unothordox and non-renunciate, I find the reasons and ways of the Ban on Shugdenpas not the work of a Mahasiddha.

With due respect to DL who had done wonders to spread the Dharma, it is definitely not within my grasp to consider the ban on Dorje Shugden to be one imposed without pain and much sufferings to many Tibetans.

According to DL, the worship of Dorje Shugden will divide the Tibetans, I chose to differ as it is not the worship that divides the Tibetans all over the world but rather the Ban.

With the simple argument that the Ban is creating confusion, pain, sufferings to many at large, can I accept that the Ban is the work of a Mahasiddha.  Sorry for now, the answer is no.

As mentioned the good results of the work of a Mahasiddha manifest much later, then let it be that the DL will lift the Ban as soon as possible. 

[Solomon Lang]

This topic somehow reminds me of "collective karma".

I would like to quote what H.E. Kyabje Lati Rinpoche said in an interview about collective karma: 

"Collective karma just applies to group actions and group decisions, such as the decision to go to war. But it should not be understood as applying to individuals. For example it is not the case that a Tibetan in this life was a Tibetan in a previous life or will be a Tibetan in the future. That is not how group karma works at all.

The way it works is that if a group of people decide to agree with each other and live together in harmony, then they will experience happiness. But if they decide to be in conflict with each other, then they will experience the hardships of conflict.

For example, Toronto is a very beautiful city that has so many wonderful hospitals and beautiful parks and is very peaceful with very little crime. That is because the citizens of Toronto have decided collectively to be civilized people. They have made an effort in that direction. And it is because of what they have done as individuals in their past lives that the individual citizens of Toronto are so fortunate as to be able to live here."

Given the above, and the postulation that H.H. Dalai Lama is a Mahasiddha, I would hypothesize that H.H. Dalai Lama sees the collective karma of a portion of the Tibetan people ripening and that he is skillfully using that to make the outcome an outcome where great purification occurs with the result of a great spreading of the dharma as practised by the Gelugpas. _/.\_ _/.\_ _/.\_

[Big Uncle]

Big Uncle,
Btw, I've read many stories about Mahasiddhas and wild lineage Gurus, but I can't seem to recall a single one who did anything even remotely close to what the DL is doing to cause international suffering and damage to the Buddhist tradition. What stories are you equating the DL's unacceptable actions with? I understand people trying to come to terms with what is going on, but such giving such praise of the DL in light of his actions seems like a continuous attempt to justify them. Everybody knows he's done some good things in the world, but these are overshadowed by the hypocritical behavior, behavior we should not constantly try to justify by saying its ok he's a Buddha. It is more important for those trying to figure out how to reconcile the situation to learn how to deal with the common appearance of a human being making huge mistakes. We can debate with ourselves and each other endlessly about whether or not someone is or is not a Buddha but the bottom line always will be that we do not know who is not a Buddha other than ourselves. However, even if everyone is a Buddha but me, I have ordinary appearance and in that the world appears to be full of humans with human laws and human suffering, so it is my duty to act with compassion for the suffering living beings I perceive, to pacify their suffering, not continuously justify the actions of the person causing their suffering. Whether or not the DL is a Mahasiddha is completely irrelevant. His actions are performed in a human body in human society and these must be stopped!

Hi Psylotripitaka,

I am not actually praising the Dalai Lama. It is framed as a question to invite people to discuss if there is a possibility that the Dalai Lama is after all a Mahasiddha and the ban is enlightened action. There were no mahasiddhas who did it on such a global stage but then again, there was no mahasiddha whose influence on global Buddhadharma like the way the Dalai Lama has. Since Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the one who prophesied in his writings and gave advice not to have negative view towards the Dalai Lama and to realize of his innate enlightened qualities. Therefore, I was exploring that the ban could have been an act of a Mahasiddha. Most Mahasiddha are ill-understood because their actions go against conventional ideas of what is holy, sacred and the profane. This to me sounds like what the Dalai Lama is doing to Dorje Shugden. Unlike an ordinary person with ordinary intention, the Dalai Lama does not seem to gain in anyway from this.