Do you think the Dalai Lama's ban is an act of a Mahasiddha?

[Q]

Haha... I actually thought about Hitler. He was perhaps a great Mahasiddha who agreed through his immensely deep Bodhicitta to act out the negative for us to experience the illusory play of duality. But then again.. what do I know? hee hee

I think if we view the DL as a Mahasiddha that is manifesting a a bigger picture, which we yet could perceive, then, we just play our part to assist in this mega movie of the ban of Dorje Shugden 

Ok... next someone's going to ask if the ban is a new unconventional way that the Dalai Lama applied for all Shugdenpas to purify their bad karma through the sufferings they experience from it.

I have no doubt that Dalai Lama, is a Mahasiddha... a great, spiritual master. I also know that the Dalai Lama is entangled in politics and the ban is nothing more than a political move. Dorje Shugden is just used as a scapegoat... That is why many people that are smart enough to think for themselves can see through this and continue their practice despite having to listen to so many people slandering our Dharma Protector since a political ban has nothing to do with spirituality.

Yeah, aren't we all just looking for the Buddha nature that is present in every being? lol

There are so many ways we can use to lift the ban, why take the risk of disparaging a Mahasiddha and collect the negative karma from it. I certainly don't want to take that risk, I have enough bad karma to last me another 3 eons, not planning to add more to it.

[Matibhadra]

As far as I know, even Rinpochela does not speak ill of Dalai Lama,

”Speaking ill” of the evil dalai is a very difficult task.






 not because the circumstances forces Rinpoche to not able to speak against DL, because we all know Rinpochela will never bend to any political or social pressure, which is the very reason why Rinpochela is still keeping His practice of Dorje Shugden.

Since that is the case, I'm following my teacher's footsteps and not condemn the DL, eventhough I feel the DL is wrong in so many ways. But that does not mean I don't fight for the ban to be lifted, but fighting through a method that does not disparage the DL or displease my teacher.

Remember, not everyone here are students of GKG. I do not know what Geshela have thought His students about the DL, but from the way some of you behave it is quite clear that Geshela would outwardly speak ill of DL.

Forcing people to follow your views, and calling people idiots for not agreeing with you. If there's such lack of tolerance even between Shugden practitioners, you can forget about asking the DL to lift the ban.

[Matibhadra]

As far as I know, even Rinpochela does not speak ill of Dalai Lama,

”Speaking ill” of the evil dalai is a very difficult task. So evil are his heinous actions that even buddhas would find it difficult to speak them out.

Anyway, there is no need to ”speak ill” of the evil dalai, or of any criminal or terrorist to that effect. Reality, the reality you want to cover, speaks for itself.

Since that is the case, I'm following my teacher's footsteps and not condemn the DL,

Your judgmental, childish mind confounds uncovering reality with ”condemning”. There is no need to ”condemn” anyone, not even the evil dalai. Indeed, it's enough to uncover the reality of his evil actions and character.

Since, however, your judgmental, un-Buddhistic mind is so much into ”condemning”, you yourself cannot refrain from condemning the uncovering of the evil dalai's crimes and character, which shows that you actual motivation is to cover them, as any of his accomplices would.

But that does not mean I don't fight for the ban to be lifted,

Fighting the ban? Why don't you try first to fight your own accomplicity with criminals and their crimes?

but fighting through a method that does not disparage the DL or displease my teacher.

This is because your actual teacher is the evil dalai, and just what you have learnt from him is to cover criminals and their crimes.

Remember, not everyone here are students of GKG.

Does one have to be ”a student of GKG” not to be the accomplice of a criminal, such as the evil dalai?

It should be enough to be a human being with a minimum moral sense.

I do not know what Geshela have thought His students about the DL, but from the way some of you behave it is quite clear that Geshela would outwardly speak ill of DL.

”Geshela” is hardly a topic on this thread. You are only talking about your own unwarranted fantasies and projections.

Forcing people to follow your views,

This is quite hilarious. Please tell the rest of us how is it possible to force anyone to follow one's views on an internet forum.

and calling people idiots for not agreeing with you.

The only one called ”idiot” on this thread was the idiot emperor without clothes of Andersen's fairy tale. If you identified with the gullible character, my apologies.

If there's such lack of tolerance even between Shugden practitioners,

You have just introjected the malicious anti-Shugden discourse of your ”mahasiddha”, the evil dalai, who sees ”intolerance” where there is only free and responsible speech.

you can forget about asking the DL to lift the ban.

Asking anything to a criminal? Why not to give up being his accomplice to start with?

[Atishas cook]

Q -
Geshe Kelsang has never "spoken ill" of the False Dalai Lama.  saying that a deluded person is performing negative actions s not speaking ill, it is speaking the truth.  sometimes, out of compassion for the deluded and those they harm, it is necessary to speak this truth.

i apologise for calling people idiots.  i lack my Teacher's patience and skill.  nevertheless, i stand by my statement that it is HARMFUL at this point to stand by and do nothing.  to do nothing, when one has the opportunity, to prevent the innocent being oppressed is surely to side with the oppressor, is it not?

right now some people - including most Tibetans - do not have this opportunity, however realized they may be.  just as Pabongkha Rinpoche had no choice but to appear to promise the 13th DL that he would no longer practise, and Trijang Rinpoche had no choice but to appear to say we should not disparage the False DL, so all those Tibetans currently under the political power of the False DL pretty much have no choice but to keep silent about his obvious, clearly deluded and destructive actions.

this is precisely why those of us with the good fortune to be free to think and act for ourselves MUST SPEAK OUT.  Geshe Kelsang Gyatso Rinpoche had the foresight to give up his Tibetan citizenship and to dissociate NKT entirely from the influence of Tibetan politics many years ago.  he and his students therefore are free to join ISC and say what the others so far mostly do not dare - despite the fact that, in private, MANY, MANY of them tell us repeatedly that they feel the same way and that they fully support our actions of protest.  the protests are giving the Tibetans confidence to come out publicly and to state the truth: the False Dalai Lama is lying!  more and more are joining ISC.

this is what CTA fears the most; so long as ISC protests are made up mainly of NKT students with western faces they can discount them as just a bunch of crazy Injis.  the more Tibetans come out publicly and tell the world that the False Dalai Lama is lying, the harder the protests are for them to ignore.  the world will see and understand that the False DL has lost his people's trust and their support - he will fold under the pressure and the ban will be lifted or disregarded.

NOW is the time to dispel false accusations against the innocent!  Tibetans - STOP supporting the False Dalai Lama!

all the rest of you - PLEASE: stop disempowering the protests and splitting the pro-Shugden community!  stand with the protests, or, if you cannot, stay silent.

[Matibhadra]

i apologise for calling people idiots.

You are unduly apologizing. You have not called anyone ”idiots”, at least on this thread, and anyone leveling against you such false accusation is brazenly lying.

Against me it's ok, because I did call the emperor without clothes ”an idiot”, and some people, funny enough, did take offence.

Far from it, what you did say was merely that

i stopped posting because i was so exasperated by this idiotic big picture idea.

But then, why should you ”apologize” just because someone else concocted such an idiotic idea. You should only be praised for pointing out the idiocy of such a misguided theory.

And why is this theory idiotic? Because it aims at duping people into accepting a criminal as a ”holy being”, and his crimes as the ”acts of a mahasiddha”.

Therefore, the ”big picture” theory is not only idiotic; it is criminal itself.

[Matibhadra]

why take the risk of disparaging a Mahasiddha and collect the negative karma from it.

The fact that you are not afraid of the negative karma of making yourself an accomplice of a criminal terrorist together with his crimes, calling them ”the acts of a mahasiddha”, shows that you do not believe in karma at all, but rather that you are just interested in politics.

[Big Uncle]

Wow! I can't believe people are still commenting on this thread. Anyway, I love the Dalai Lama is lying protests but I wish they would expand the tag lines and boundaries of the protest towards legitimizing Dorje Shugden as an authentic protector of the Gaden lineage or that he is an emanation of Manjushri or something more than just than   Dalai Lama is lying. No country in the world current upholds the DS ban except within the Tibetan community of India. There are social norms and things we need to respect there in order to get the message across. Perhaps a different approach would get the message across better and reach a wider audience? Just a thought.

[Matibhadra]

Wow! I can't believe people are still commenting on this thread.

Stinking ideas, just like stinking stuff in general, sometimes require prolonged treatment.

Perhaps a different approach would get the message across better and reach a wider audience?

A less stinking approach this time, please.

[Atishas cook]

Big Uncle -

that's a fair point - to consider different angles that could be pursued in parallel to the existing ones.  in fact, i think that the human rights/religious freedom angle is one that will continue to be emphasised in particular

as far as i know (which is not very far, to be fair!) the general consensus is that, in order to get the ban lifted and protect the lineage, we need to pressure the False DL to rescind the ban - or, failing that, we need to take away his power to maintain its legitimacy.  this is because, as you know, we tried since 1996 to appeal to his reason, his compassion (his basic human decency!), to respectfully request discussion, etc. - all of which failed.

in the absence of any indication of willingness on his part to consider our position, we now find ourself having to resort to the second option: stripping him of his legitimacy and taking away his main weapon, the power of his speech.

to this end, pointing out to the world his lies and his harmful actions of repressing the right to freedom of worship of Tibetans under his control is the best - in fact, the only effective  - method left to us.

i don't want to have to call anyone a liar.  i don't want to be spat at in the street, or vilified online, or called a spirit-worshipper or a bought agent of the PRC.  but i will continue to accept these things and do whatever i have to in order to protect our lineage for the sake of all suffering mother beings, as i know you will too.

[Matibhadra]

Anyway, I love the Dalai Lama is lying protests but I wish they would expand the tag lines and boundaries of the protest

On this one I have to agree with you. Just stating that the evil dalai is an infamous liar is way too weak, almost a praise to the evil terrorist.

There is a need to show that he is a barbaric, medieval witch-hunter, that he is promoting bloody riots and racist murderings, and that he is actively encouraging people to self-immolate.

People need to understand that we are dealing with an evil terrorist, nothing short from just that.

towards legitimizing Dorje Shugden as an authentic protector of the Gaden lineage or that he is an emanation of Manjushri or something more than just than   Dalai Lama is lying

Actually what you want is *less* than the evil dalai is lying. As usual, you want to cover and protect the criminal, just like with your stinking proposition that the evil dalai is a ”mahasiddha”, shifting the protests to another topic.

Now, the legitimization of Dorje Shugden as an ”authentic protector of the Ganden lineage” and as ”an emanation of Manjushri” does not come from the evil dalai, or from public recognition; therefore it is not a topic for protests.

[kelly]

We as a lay person should judge the master like HH because we just ordinary being who know very little , if HH is not a mahasiddha then how can he continue to take rebirth for 14 times as a great being like him if he is so bad he could have got to lower three realms.

[Matibhadra]

We as a lay person should judge the master like HH because we just ordinary being who know very little ,

Little, but enough to tell a terrorist from a Buddhist.

if HH is not a mahasiddha then how can he continue to take rebirth for 14 times as a great being like him

A great terrorist, therefore not the reincarnation of any great being.
 

if he is so bad he could have got to lower three realms.

Which is probably where the great terrorist 5th is, together with the great puppet and traitor 13th, and where the great terrorist 14th will join them.

[psylotripitaka]

Hi Kelly,

Apparently you are unaware that he is not the actual Dalai Lama, therefore not part of a lineage of blessed tulkus.  See the following:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=5040.0

[Aurore]

The act of a mahasiddha in this degenerate time would be very much different from the times of Mahasiddha Tilopa, Virupa, Naropa and so on. With the current times, humans are more brutal. The acts of a mahasiddha may require a harsher and brutal methods to tame the minds now. During the times of Virupa, all was needed was an act of miracles to bring people to the dharma!

It would definitely be possible that whatever HHDL is doing, as harsh it may appear to be is an act of a Mahasiddha. However, I can only be 100% sure once this is all over through results. Did this ban bring thousands and thousands to Buddhism? Or was this just a meaningless decision? Only time can tell.

[bambi]

I have yet to attain the wisdom and compassion of a Buddha therefore I cant tell whether HHDL is using his skills like a mahasidha. But I do believe that He is an emanation of Chenresig like what my Guru and lineage masters tell me despite what people are saying. I believe that all these collective sufferings are purification of negative karma and that will lead to ripening of positive karma and merits that will lift the ban and grow into something huge and beneficial for many. And I do believe in the karma of wrong views, bad speech and thoughts.