Author Topic: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014  (Read 5893 times)

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« on: May 06, 2014, 12:08:33 AM »
The Dalai Lama's organisers for his Norway visit have come out with some ridiculous statements concerning the Dalai Lama's ban on Dorje Shugden.

But fortunately you can contact their Press Office and put them straight!



Our assessment of the Shugden issue

We, the organizers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s visit to Norway in 2014, are being asked about our assessment of the issue of the «Shugden controversy». We are asked this because a large group of «traveling protesters» of Shugden worshippers has landed in Norway and intend to launch verbal attacks on the Dalai Lama while he is here.

Our discussion is limited to the information that we have received from various parties, plus what we have found via web search.

The Buddha has said that we should be flexible of mind, and investigate for ourselves rather than to blindly accepting the truth presented by others. We have tried to ignore that the attacks on the Dalai Lama are made in a confrontational and insulting style, and look at the merit of the claims made with an open mind.

THESE ARE OUR CURRENT VIEWS:

1. The claims related to systematic human rights violations against the exile Shugden worshippers are not credible. No independent journalistic source has been found to support these claims, and our network inside the Tibetan exile community in Dharamsala tell us that these claims as baseless. Furthermore, the claims have been brought before independent human rights bodies, such as Amnesty International, who have investigated and dismissed them. However, there seems to have been some examples of individuals attacking Shugden worshippers or denying them access to public locations or jobs. We have not been able to find out whether or not these actions have been properly investigated and dealt with, as they should.

2. The claims that laws have been passed banning Shugden worshippers from e.g. government jobs, hospitals, schools and monasteries are false. We have asked representatives of the Shugden movement to provide references to the laws and articles they are referring to, and not received any such information.

3. The Tibetan parliament in exile is walking a dangerous path in strongly taking sides in the religious controversy. In a recent resolution, the Tibetan parliament has moved that it: «Further recognises also the Dolgyal [Shugden] followers and others – whose have caused grave harm to the faith and polity of Tibet under the Chinese government’s ploy and in violation of the law of Karma – as criminals in history.» Even thought this resolution has no legislative effect, and even though some Shugden followers have resorted to violent tactics such as murder, we feel that this resolution does not adequately discriminate between criminal actions and personal faith issues.

4. The claims that the Dalai Lama is suppressing religious freedom are based on a misrepresentation of the concept of religious freedom. The claims that the Dalai Lama is suppressing religious freedom is based on three facts:

a. The Dalai Lama is actively advising people to stay away from the Shugden practice, because in his view it fosters sectarianism, replaces the rational approach of Buddhism with spirit worship, and because it harms the unity of the Tibetan people.

b. The Dalai Lama asks people who practice Shugden worship not to attend his teachings.

c. Monks and nuns who practice Shugden worship are not welcome to dwell in monasteries and temples that follow the Dalai Lama’s guidance.

In our view, the Shugden group have misunderstood the concept of religious freedom. The Dalai Lama has no obligation to hide his religious views or to accept all students, regardless of their actions. To the contrary, it is a matter of His Holiness’ religious freedom that he be allowed to chose what religious practice to recommend or refute, which students to accept and what religious conditions apply to people who want to dwell in the monasteries under his direction.

In general, we feel that the claims raised against His Holiness are originated and voiced in a way that is neither constructive, respectful nor honest. There seems to be an echo chamber of Shugden chat rooms, blogs and institutional websites that repeat and amplify generalizations based on a few, isolated incidents. We are very sorry that some Shugden people have decided to spend their time and resources to try and discredit a great spokesperson for peace with harsh words and unreliable accusations. We wish them and everyone else inner peace and peace with the world around them.

http://dalailamaoslo.no/index.html


Sist oppdatert: 12.50 - 02.05.2014

Solomon Lang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Who is d wise man? He who sees what's to born.
    • Email
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 05:21:33 AM »
Shouldn't it be 7 - 9 May 2012 and not 7 - 9 March 2014?
Solomon's Judgement: 2 women came to resolve a quarrel over which was d true mother of a baby. When Solomon suggested they should divide d child in two with a sword, one said she would rather give up d child than see it killed. Solomon then declared d woman who showed compassion 2b the true mother.

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 05:30:22 AM »
Shouldn't it be 7 - 9 May 2012 and not 7 - 9 March 2014?

My apologies for the typing error it should be 7 - 9 May 2014.  It is HHDL's coming visit to Olso.

Q

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 07:20:13 AM »
Lies after lies... the fact that they have to lie about the fact that they expelled Shugden practitioners and actually conducted a modern day witch hunt shows the CTA themselves know such deeds are considered unethical and unaccepted by the world audience.

The Dalai Lama himself have made it official that Dorje Shugden must not be practiced in Tibetan Buddhism... Well, why didn't he declare the same for the many Chinese Buddhist temples that have elements of Taoism and true worship of worldly gods? Why does the Dalai Lama accept that Jesus can be worshiped by Christians but the NKT, whom have considered themselves as an independent Buddhist sect are continuously facing discrimination and had their deity slandered?

Amnesty international may not be able to make a case out of it, it's because of the subtle discrimination within the community. Unfortunately, the Tibetans are a superstitious bunch, and it is because of the Dalai Lama's deliberate announcement on Shugden being a demon/spirit (which is untrue) which has caused this ruckus.

The CTA speaks of Shugden being sectarian and caused split within Tibetans... But didn't that happen with the Kagyus as well due to the Dalai Lama's interference in the selection of the Karmapas, which resulted in the existence of 2 Karmapas today?  It is very obvious that the CTA or Dalai Lama is not concerned about the unity of Tibetans, because if they truly did, they would focus on the similarities and not the differences.

There are so many reports by Shugden practitioners that local authorities in their village would visit them and force them to give up Shugden practice... the very fact that the CTA and Dalai Lama insist of Trijang Rinpoche's return to India and allowed Trijang Rinpoche to practice Dorje Shugden already tells us that Shugden is not a Demon/spirit... if it is so, then why allow one to practice but not the rest? Is the Buddhist faith now written by the Dalai Lama whenever he feels it is convenient?

Solomon Lang

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Who is d wise man? He who sees what's to born.
    • Email
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 09:44:56 AM »
Dear organizers of HH Dalai Lama's visit to Norway,

I quote you - "...The Dalai Lama has no obligation to hide his religious views or to accept all students, regardless of their actions. To the contrary, it is a matter of His Holiness’ religious freedom that he be allowed to chose what religious practice to recommend or refute, which students to accept and what religious conditions apply to people who want to dwell in the monasteries under his direction."

Do you understand what you have said?

If you appreciate (which you obviously don't) the basis of the Tibetan Buddhism's (Vajrayana) critical method of having Gurus train students and the importance of lineage, and therefore pure teachings and practice which can be traced back to the time of Buddha Shakyamuni, you will understand the absurdity of your statement.

What you are claiming is like saying okay guys, we have the Ten Commandments but I, as your Guru understands it, there are only eight and a half commandments. Hear me guys? Eight and a half! So if you practise the other one and a half, you are all out, banned, frowned upon, don't exist in my eyes, can't attend "my" schools. Doesn't matter what my Guru, my Guru's Guru, my Guru's Guru's Guru, etc. taught me. Just listen to me okay and follow my orders and pronto, thank you.

 
Solomon's Judgement: 2 women came to resolve a quarrel over which was d true mother of a baby. When Solomon suggested they should divide d child in two with a sword, one said she would rather give up d child than see it killed. Solomon then declared d woman who showed compassion 2b the true mother.

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 01:34:29 PM »
My comments are below:


We, the organizers of His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s visit to Norway in 2014, are being asked about our assessment of the issue of the «Shugden controversy». We are asked this because a large group of «traveling protesters» of Shugden worshippers has landed in Norway and intend to launch verbal attacks on the Dalai Lama while he is here.

Our discussion is limited to the information that we have received from various parties, plus what we have found via web search.



If they had really done proper research, they would not have come up with the points below. Sad to say, there is so much information on this one website that the Norwegians should have had a deeper understanding of the Shugden issue, which they obviously have not.


The Buddha has said that we should be flexible of mind, and investigate for ourselves rather than to blindly accepting the truth presented by others. We have tried to ignore that the attacks on the Dalai Lama are made in a confrontational and insulting style, and look at the merit of the claims made with an open mind.



Yes - this is absolutely right - there should be investigation and not just blindly accepting with others say. Even the Dalai Lama himself has said that we should investigate. Yet so many simply follow the Dalai Lama's words without looking deeper and thinking for themselves.

Kudos to the Norwegians for attempting to look at the facts rather than the style of delivery though.


THESE ARE OUR CURRENT VIEWS:

1. The claims related to systematic human rights violations against the exile Shugden worshippers are not credible. No independent journalistic source has been found to support these claims, and our network inside the Tibetan exile community in Dharamsala tell us that these claims as baseless. Furthermore, the claims have been brought before independent human rights bodies, such as Amnesty International, who have investigated and dismissed them. However, there seems to have been some examples of individuals attacking Shugden worshippers or denying them access to public locations or jobs. We have not been able to find out whether or not these actions have been properly investigated and dealt with, as they should.



Here is a TV documentary on Dorje Shugden

TV Documentary by France 24: The Dalai Lama’s Demons (Parts 1 and 2)
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/tv-documentary-by-france-24-the-dalai-lamas-demons-part-1-of-2/
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/tv-documentary-by-france-24-the-dalai-lamas-demons-part-2-of-2/

and evidence of the discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners... in a monastery, no less!

Religious Apartheid in Tibetan Communities
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/religious-apartheid-in-tibetan-communities/


2. The claims that laws have been passed banning Shugden worshippers from e.g. government jobs, hospitals, schools and monasteries are false. We have asked representatives of the Shugden movement to provide references to the laws and articles they are referring to, and not received any such information.



Please see above article "Religious Apartheid in Tibetan Communities", also please see this topic i started, "Exclusion of Dorje Shugden practitioners from exiled Tibetan parliament"
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4827.0

I am sure if they actually did bother to come to dorjeshugden.com, they would not make such sweeping statements which only reveal that they did not do their homework.


3. The Tibetan parliament in exile is walking a dangerous path in strongly taking sides in the religious controversy. In a recent resolution, the Tibetan parliament has moved that it: «Further recognises also the Dolgyal [Shugden] followers and others – whose have caused grave harm to the faith and polity of Tibet under the Chinese government’s ploy and in violation of the law of Karma – as criminals in history.» Even thought this resolution has no legislative effect, and even though some Shugden followers have resorted to violent tactics such as murder, we feel that this resolution does not adequately discriminate between criminal actions and personal faith issues.



Now, this is true. The CTA is completely contravening its role by taking sides... strongly... in this religious controversy, started by the Dalai Lama.

While there was ONE case of murder in in 1990s, please see this article which sheds a different light. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/point-12-violent-events-with-images/

I have also commented previously that the murder was never proven to be committed by a Shugden practitioner and even if it WAS a Shugden practitioner who committed murder, it does not mean that all Shugden practitioners are murderers nor does it mean that murder is condoned. I am sure there are many more members of other religions who have committed murder yet murder is not associated with all the practitioners of that particular religion.


4. The claims that the Dalai Lama is suppressing religious freedom are based on a misrepresentation of the concept of religious freedom. The claims that the Dalai Lama is suppressing religious freedom is based on three facts:

a. The Dalai Lama is actively advising people to stay away from the Shugden practice, because in his view it fosters sectarianism, replaces the rational approach of Buddhism with spirit worship, and because it harms the unity of the Tibetan people.

b. The Dalai Lama asks people who practice Shugden worship not to attend his teachings.

c. Monks and nuns who practice Shugden worship are not welcome to dwell in monasteries and temples that follow the Dalai Lama’s guidance.



With regard to religious freedom - it is simple. It is the freedom to practice without fear nor favour. However, by ostracising Shugden practitioners, by not giving them travel documents, by restricting their children from schools, by stopping them from shopping in certain shops, by restricting medical treatment - that is NOT religious freedom but religious persecution.


In our view, the Shugden group have misunderstood the concept of religious freedom. The Dalai Lama has no obligation to hide his religious views or to accept all students, regardless of their actions. To the contrary, it is a matter of His Holiness’ religious freedom that he be allowed to chose what religious practice to recommend or refute, which students to accept and what religious conditions apply to people who want to dwell in the monasteries under his direction.



Of course the Dalai Lama has the right to hold his particular religious view - and even stop Shugden practitioners from attending his teachings (though our beef is with the fact that Satanists can attend but Shugden practitioners, who follow the Protector of the Dalai Lama's guru himself, cannot??)

Oh and what I do not accept is the Dalai Lama not decreeing that all the discrimination against Shugden practitioners within the Tibetan diaspora be STOPPED! That is from the basic Buddhist tenets of compassion.

Even a Lama, HH Penor Rinpoche, from a different Buddhist tradition opened his heart and monastery to Shugden practitioners http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/hh-penor-rinpoche-sympathetic-to-dorje-shugden-monks/ - how can Gelugpas not?


In general, we feel that the claims raised against His Holiness are originated and voiced in a way that is neither constructive, respectful nor honest. There seems to be an echo chamber of Shugden chat rooms, blogs and institutional websites that repeat and amplify generalizations based on a few, isolated incidents. We are very sorry that some Shugden people have decided to spend their time and resources to try and discredit a great spokesperson for peace with harsh words and unreliable accusations. We wish them and everyone else inner peace and peace with the world around them.

http://dalailamaoslo.no/index.html



This is exactly what Shugden practitioners feel - that Dalai Lama sycophants "repeat and amplify generalizations based on a few, isolated incidents." without studying further the very real merits of the case which Shugden practitioners endure on a daily basis.

Dalai Lama religious freedom give!

Dalai Lama stop lying!
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 11:01:18 PM »
Behold, the International Shugden Community will be holding protest to demand religious freedom for the mass practising Dorje Shugden during the DalaI Lama's visit to Olso this week.  It includes one on Wednesday 7th May between 11:30am and 3:30pm outside Oslo’s Nobel Institute, and on Youngstorget near Folketeateret between 1pm and 4:30pm, Friday. 

You are encouraged to join in the protest to make a strong stand and wake up the world who are spellbound by the Dalai Lama's charm to look closely into the oppression and human rights abuses he inflicted on his own people in exile making them suffer.  The ban has also rubbed off to many Shugden practitioners internationally who in their own countries enjoy religious freedom due to the Dalai Lama's fame. The ban has gone on for 2 decades and has implicate international Shugden practitioners who are vulnerable to the hostility and animosity of the pro-Dalai Lama group for practising Shudgen in their respective countries and especially when travelling abroad to countries where there are Tibetan communities.


International Shugden Community organisers say they plan three days of demonstrations under the religious leader’s visit to Oslo this week.


According to them, hundreds of Buddhists, including monks and nuns, will be staging strong protests against the Dalai Lama as he speaks at events in the Norwegian capital.

The Community say they wish to draw world attention to what they state is his “hidden intensive persecution campaign of thousands of Tibetan citizens in exile who practice a 400 year old tradition where one prays to the Buddhist deity Dorje Shugden.”

Their statement also talks of the Dalai Lama having imposed an “aggressive and forced ban” on the Shugden religious community, by claiming his health and the cause of Tibet are harmed by their prayers.
According to the Community, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, who himself practiced the religion for 40 years, has committed human rights abuse and religious persecution.

They liken their situation as being akin to 19-20th Century US and European racial segregation laws and bans. Shop window, restaurant, and medical facility signs ask people of the Shugden faith not to enter, they say.
The Shugden Community support Norwegian politicians’ decision not to meet the Dalai Lama. South African Bishop Desmond Tutu has admonished the government for this.

The Foreigner spoke with International Shugden Community spokesperson Len Foley by phone last week while he was in the US. Mr Foley is now in Oslo to join the protests.

“We agree with the Norwegian government's decision not to meet the Dalai Lama, and it has nothing to do with China, or Chinese views of the Dalai Lama,” he told us. “The Dalai Lama has engaged in religious discrimination, ruthlessly suppressing what he regards as religious dissent among Tibetan Buddhists and by extension thousands of Buddhists around the world for the past 20 years.”

The spokesperson also talked of the practising their faith leading to methods which include “forced recantation”, and “ostracism, and banishment from the Tibetan community”.

“Norway should not only refuse to meet him but should demand that he be held accountable for his actions of religious persecution and human rights abuses amongst his own people,” concluded Mr Foley.
This week’s protests include one on Wednesday 7th May between 11:30am and 3:30pm outside Oslo’s Nobel Institute, and on Youngstorget near Folketeateret between 1pm and 4:30pm, Friday.

http://theforeigner.no/pages/news/buddhists-protest-dalai-lama-norway-visit-in-their-hundreds/

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 10:08:56 PM »
The Dalai Lama is currently in Oslo, Norway where the political leadership refused to meet officially with him to which he held no grudges against Norway's government after they decided not to meet him on his trip to Oslo in order to avoid further damaging already fragile relations with China.

The press article and video footage below show peaceful protesters from the International Shugden Community asking him once again to please stop lying in relation to the Nature and practice of Dorje Shugden and to please lift the ban that has had such a harmful effect on so many.

http://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/2014/05/07/de-fleste-kom-hedre-dalai-lama

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 10:32:50 PM »

Protesters demand Dalai Lama lifts religious ban - Parliament Square Norway

Protesters demand Dalai Lama lifts religious ban - Parliament Square Norway


icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 10:40:20 PM »
The Dalai Lama capitalised on the heavy International Shugden Community protest at Parliment Square, Olso to 'walk the talk' on religious harmony, human values, freedom of expression and democracy to the Norwegians.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbMtXi5PbUM&app=desktop

icy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: HH The Dalai Lama in Olso, Norway 7 - 9 March 2014
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 12:45:49 PM »
2014 Buddhists demand revoking of Dalai Lama Nobel Peace Prize at Oslo:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1YmeQV9viAg