Why the Tibetans accusations dont make sense

[DharmaDefender]

This is the kind of nonsense the Tibetan leadership encourages. Apparently if you appear in a photograph with someone, and the leadership doesnt agree with what they practise then your guilty by association.

Well okay fine. Then lets examine this closely.



The Dalai Lama appeared in a photo with that guy what released sarin gas in the Tokyo subway; he must be leading gas attacks too (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/a-commentary-on-the-times-of-indias-article-rift-among-tibetans-riddles-security-agencies-task/).




Jamyang Norbu appeared in the photo with Dechen Tulku; he must be practising Dorje Shugden too (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/highest-peaks-to-lowest-gutters-by-jamyang-norbu/).




Nixon appeared in a photo with Chairman Mao; he must be a secret Communist too.




The Karmapa appeared in a photograph with the Gaden Trisur who defected to Shar Gaden; the Karmapa must be practising Dorje Shugden too (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/a-picture-that-paints-a-thousand-words/).




So if you appear in a photograph with a Chinese official, STOP THE PRESSES. You HAVE to be receiving money from the Chinese.

Oh COME OFF IT. All of these accusations are absolutely ridiculous because only imbeciles think like that.

[kris]

A nation can only improve when the people are educated and can think for themselves, but if the people can think, it would not be so easy for the government to "control" them. CTA is taking a huge risk by making their people "dumb" by not giving them proper education so that they can be easily control. This is what happened to Tibet now, and it is indeed very sad. People ends up cannot reason and become laughing stock for others.. all for the sake of CTA to easily control their people to do thing which benefits the CTA.

[DharmaSpace]

It has been years and still no sign of freedom for the Tibetan people, so CTA has to keep their tibetan people like cattle so they cannot think for themselves. If the Tibetan had thought for themselves they would have no part of storming lama's residences, monasteries just because CTA said so.

The scene of the lay Tibetans being coerced to attack the Indian monasteries are the scenes from a feudal age, if they had come with pitch forks and torches the scene would be complete. So Tibet is still not free lets just blame Dorje Shugden and the Gelug lamas for it, they are the only ones strong enough to post a threat to their Tibetan authorities. They need a scapegoat otherwise the Tibetan people will question them.

The CTA and Dalai Lama they practice Nechung right under the Tibetans, Nechung is still a spirit king, and many Tibetans don't know is ignorant to that. That is how dumb and stupid the CTA have kept the Tibetans.

[icy]

All accusations of Shugden practitioners are Chinese mercenaries and spies are absurd.  I wish the Chinese Government would finance our protest so we can do more to revoke the ban but I have neither been approached by any Chinese officials nor have received any dime. 



Similarily I would like to ask when the Dalai Lama puts on a Mexican hat, talked to Mexican officials and supports medical marijuana use when he was in Mexico, does this make him a Mexican? 

[Big Uncle]

You people have sound logic and this is just more proof of how the ban have to come down now. How can people who associate with Shugdenpas be automatically accused of practicing. This guilty by association is very ancient method of controlling and suppressing people of their political beliefs. It should not be done on religious beliefs. There is no justification for this as this is just pure discrimination.

From what we have seen, even if I am not a Shugdenpa, I rather associate myself with them anyway because they are not vulgar, they seemed patient and more believable as a Buddhist practitioner in general as compared to a great majority of the Dalai Lama's followers. Robert Thurman was famous to have coined the phrase the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism in reference to Shugden practitioners but I say that the majority of the followers of the Dalai Lama fits this description better.

[lotus1]

From what we have seen, even if I am not a Shugdenpa, I rather associate myself with them anyway because they are not vulgar, they seemed patient and more believable as a Buddhist practitioner in general as compared to a great majority of the Dalai Lama's followers. Robert Thurman was famous to have coined the phrase the Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism in reference to Shugden practitioners but I say that the majority of the followers of the Dalai Lama fits this description better.

Agreed fully to the above.

The Shugden practitioners that I have met are very kind and compassion. They just devote to their teacher and what their teacher taught them by doing their practice peacefully and do not harm anyone.

I would think the CTA and the anti-shudgens are “Taliban of Tibetan Buddhism” based on what they have done. They forced in and occupied Domo Geshe Rinpoche’s Ladrang (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/breaking-news-domo-geshe-rinpoches-monastery-in-phedong-attacked/), they published the list Tibetan who supported the protest with their address (http://tibet.net/2014/05/22/list-of-dolgyal-followers-who-protested-against-his-holiness-the-dalai-lama-in-us-and-europe/ ), causing harm to others (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/why-so-vulgar/).
 
I would think CTA & all the anti-Shugdens are putting all Buddhist to shame!

Please stop all these! Please lift the ban! 

[fruven]

So I am a meat eater too when I pose with someone who eats meat?
So I am a drinker too when I pose with someone who drinks?
So I am a smoker too when I pose with someone who smokes?

What happens when I pose with a homo?
What happens when I pose with a hetero?

Or pose with a monkey?
Or even a book?

[DharmaDefender]

So I am a meat eater too when I pose with someone who eats meat?
So I am a drinker too when I pose with someone who drinks?
So I am a smoker too when I pose with someone who smokes?

What happens when I pose with a homo?
What happens when I pose with a hetero?

Or pose with a monkey?
Or even a book?

Haha bit harsh mate. But I take your point. Unfortunately this logic which seems so simple to us, will be completely lost on the Tibetans. I know some of us have faced accusations of being racist for continuously pointing out the supposed deficiencies of the Tibetan population. But the point is that the problem (ie. the ban) was caused by their leadership, and its being perpetuated by a society that doesnt know any better and cant think any better because theyve all been kept in the dark by their leadership. Almost makes you think Mao had a point, that religion is an opiate of the masses. Because theres nothing wrong with religion itself but when its used to oppress a people who dont know any better, keeps them dumbed down for a long time.

[Q]

Look... the Tibetans believe that a deity can harm the Dalai Lama and the cause of Tibet... are you even surprised that they'd believe this crap stories the CTA tells them? I'd be surprised if they didn't believe the CTA, coz if that time ever came, the ban will no longer be there.

They just can't find real prove and real fault with Shugden practitioners, so they have to get petty with their accusations

[dsiluvu]

What I find most surprising is that... the Tibetan Leadership of all people, a so called "Governement" relies on a spirit (Nechung) to help them make critical, national decisions. Now Nechung is certainly an unenlightened deity yet, so what's mind boggling is all these lay Tibetans do not even realise this point and just swallows whatever rubbish their leadership tells them without every questioning. If they want to point fingers at us Shugden practitioners being "spirit" worshippers, they should seriously look at the 4 fingers pointing back at them cos it's just a huge joke!

Classic example of another ignorant Tibetan, a comment I took off FB:

Ninje Dharmacenter · to worship a spirits is not real dharma at all. if you really want to be a buddhist then you have to know what is dharma and what is not other wise it is just waste of your time and life! buddha never teaches about important of spirists! bro if buddha cant protect us then shugden never ever cant and wont protect us. if you cant pratice real dharma then better practice ur own old religion. some tibetans who come to with you protest agains dalai lama are zero knowledge about dharma. they are tool of Chinese government to destroy tibetan inter harmony. bro you are wearing monks rob but you are not practicing real dharma this is all about sadness, you are lucky to face buddha dharma somehow you are unlucky to face such fake teacher geshe kelsang who even his appearance like an aid patient. be careful bro!

Somehow they think real Dharma is condemning other people's religion, faith, beliefs, and even Gurus and somehow they think this is okay is Buddhas books. Hilarious! AND they represent His Holiness... embarrassing!

[dondrup]

OK, now we come to the ultimate absurdity. If CTA strictly abide by this "Accuse by Association" policy, there is totally no hope for Free Tibet or even autonomy. This is because CTA cannot be seen having talks or negotiations with the Chinese authorities lest they be accused of being Chinese Spies!
 
So by trapping itself into a stalemate CTA cannot champion the cause for Tibetan independence or autonomy! CTA renders itself null and void!

[Big Uncle]

Not only does the reasoning behind the ban not make any sense, this whole medieval ban is putting off anybody new who may be exploring Buddhism and encountering this Shugden ban. It is also detracting a great many people who may be interested in Buddhism and in learning the Dharma according to the great Indo-Tibetan tradition. If I was new to Buddhism and I am reading the politics, I would be so turned off to Tibetan Buddhism. How can a protector deity practice be the center of a political storm between the Dalai Lama and great lamas of these practitioners. Can these lamas truly be attained and holy if they are so embroiled in politics? These and many questions would arise and in the end just put anybody off from exploring Tibetan Buddhism further.

[eyesoftara]

Not only does the reasoning behind the ban not make any sense, this whole medieval ban is putting off anybody new who may be exploring Buddhism and encountering this Shugden ban. It is also detracting a great many people who may be interested in Buddhism and in learning the Dharma according to the great Indo-Tibetan tradition. If I was new to Buddhism and I am reading the politics, I would be so turned off to Tibetan Buddhism. How can a protector deity practice be the center of a political storm between the Dalai Lama and great lamas of these practitioners. Can these lamas truly be attained and holy if they are so embroiled in politics? These and many questions would arise and in the end just put anybody off from exploring Tibetan Buddhism further.

I agree and disagree with Bug Uncle on the controversies can be a big turn off. I agree because to the uninitiated, it can really be a mass of confusion and a lot of negatives. But to those who are more discerning it can generate interest about Buddhism itself. Since most in this forum would agree that the Dharma is the Ultimate Truth, I suspect the controversies and its resultant repulsion or attraction is dependent on the merits/karma of the observer.
Since much cannot be done for those with no merits, the controversies' function is to attract those with merits.

[brian]

It does make a lot of people turned away for the politics and controversial parts of it not discounting the violence involved affected a lot of people. And it was all because of the ban and it should be taken down because as time goes by, we still see sufferings out there and it doesn't heal. What really baffles me is that most listened to CTA's propagandas to go against all Dorje Shugden practitioners. Being continually coerced by the people in CTA, the ignorant Tibetans still at large in doing all the harm to the Shugden practitioners. I am speaking from a very general point here, not being biased, at least which religion tells you to hurt and condemn another person just because they do not share what you think. 

[Gabby Potter]

The CTA is obviously controlling their people through spreading fake information. Poor CTA, this is the only way and "thing" they can do to control their people, miserable isn't it? How many lies they had to tell and stories they had to make up... sometimes I feel really sorry for them, imagine the amount of bad karma they have been collecting throughout the years.