Dear All,
There is a debate going on in this link, do help
Here are some of the words people said
Domenic Warren
I'm sorry Christine, but your "evidence"is completely invalid. You're information is coming directly from the Shugden Cult. Until you can provide sources from places other than Shugden sites, all your post is, is biased hearsay. Not only has H.H Dalai Lama banned Shugden worship, but many high lamas from all 4 schools of Tibetan Buddhism have agreed with his ban on worshiping this spirit. Also, you have your information completely backwards, Shugden protesters are becoming increasingly violent, they've threatened the Dalai Lama in a multitude of ways, they are prime suspects in the murder if a couple of high lamas in the 90's, they harm and harass those who agree with His Holiness, and they are doing nothing but causing harm.to Buddhism.
Shawn Del Carmen
Shugden practice is only a isolated Gelug issue. Shugden practitioners also tend to ignore other more "Outstanding" issues within the Vajrayana/Tibetan communities than over a technically minor deity with little or no significance to the greater idea of Enlightenment. He takes away from true Dharma as he was little more than a cold man that existed centuries ago and is becoming little more than a cult now and not contributing to true Dharma. The majority of the other schools in Buddhism fully support the Dalai Lama's Position on the subject simply because of the background of the spirit in trying to create isolationism from the rest of the other branches in Vajrayana. His core "duty" is to protect the purity of Gelug even if that means destroying other schools in which case I'm sure in most Buddhist would agree and say that is not acceptable. The various oracles that serve as proxy by more important Bodhisattvas and Dharmapalas has no issue with his Holiness's Stance on the matter. In addition another problem that arises with the Veneration of Shugden is that he was not "Pacified" by Padmasambhava due to the time differential, and any wrathful entity can not be trusted based on that theology. However from over my decade of study of western occultism and metaphysics Shugden displays many signs of a demonic entity.
Domenic Warren
You're spewing nothing but Shugden propaganda, you are not educated by anything the Shugden cult has told you. It is completely known by all who are not deluded by Shugden nonsense that it was the Nechung oracle who advised the Dalai Lama on his path pit of Tibet. The Dalai lama makes use of 4 different Oracles, None of which are or ever have been a Shugden Oracle. As for the Thangka, I'm sure it was likely one of two things: a Chenrezig Thangka, or a Shugden thangka given to him as a gift. We all know H.H. was a Shugden practitioner, this is not new information! But he stopped in the 70's and banned it in the 90's.
Domenic Warren
" Pabongka fashioned Shugden as a violent protector of the Gelug school, who is employed against other traditions.[6][7] Shugden was a key element in Phabongkha's persecution of the Rimé movement.[8] Within the Gelug school itself, Pabongka constructed Shugden as replacing the traditional Gelug protectors Pehar, Nechung, Palden Lhamo, Mahakala, Vaisravana and Kalarupa, who was appointed by Tsongkhapa.[9][10][11] Shugden thus generated opposition in all schools of Tibetan Buddhism including the Gelug school for whom he is supposed to be a protector."
Shawn Del Carmen
Spirits are not easily destroyed at all and that does not provide any proof towards his esteem. There are hundreds of spirits and deities that have survived thousands of years and are still around, human concepts and history is not exactly something that is feeble. I don't know anything about Lamas attempt to destroy a spirit but that sounds like utter rubbish as any decent Lama would know destruction of anything is impossible. Enlightened beings can manifest in however way they please as theoretically they are not bound to Samsara as we are. Dorje Shugden
I personally never heard of the Shugden oracle advising to leave and Nechung to stay, if anything that just sounds little more than propaganda. The unreliability of the Nechung oracle has been noted many times by numerous people this is why there are numerous other oracles and overall they aren't fully considered as infallible. Considering it so is utter foolishness. Are we really under the impression as Buddhists that Dorje Shugden's Personality would remain static over the course of the history of his veneration? These assumptions are becoming ridiculous. The motive of this Spirit would not have been known immediately even despite the Lamas being learned people and alleged "Reincarnations" are still human, irregardless of being emanations or manifestations of tantric deities or returned Sangha bound to Bodhichitta. It does not endow spiritual powers of any note among them. Whether all of them are true reincarnations of improperly recognized is not my call and neither is it yours.
That is likely what they learned from. Whether he is or not is beside this point and Chenrezig is not a Buddha, he is a Bodhisattva. There is a huge difference between the two. Even so he is a Emanation, not the full being within a human vessel. That is the equivalent of fitting the entirety of all the oceans on Earth and fitting it into a simple tea cup, even that isn't an appropriate enough comparison. Your understanding of Vajrayana Theology is very lacking and I urge you to study more General Vajrayana than place all of your foucs and energy on something that is support to be a proponent as opposed to the Subject.
He allowed him to do so because it is his choice, the Dalai Lama's Ban is nothing more than a recommendation on his part and he does not have full control over what anyone does or say. The reactions of his followers are not his responsibility
