Kadampa Ryan engaging the critics of Dorje Shugden

[DharmaSpace]

Hi everyone,
As some of you already know, I have been attempting a constructive dialogue with some of our more prolific critics. The most interesting, though not surprising I guess, thing is it is clearer to me than ever that when we actually put the Dharma we have been taught into practice as we go about our protest, it actually works to engender more reasonable, balanced and respectful dialogue. I just posted the following on Tenzin's blog in response to our discussions there. I would be interested to get your thoughts.

Hi Tenpel, Khedrup, Joanne (and everyone else),
Thank you all for taking so much of your time to reply. Thank you also for the decidedly positive change in tone. It is due to that, that I am willing to give this another try.
It has been said that I have not responded to some arguments because perhaps I don't have answers to them. No, I have something to say to each one, I just don't have the time or means to reply to everything. All of the above has simply grown too unwieldy to continue in a "line by line" fashion for the following reasons: First, Wordpress does not seem to be a particularly good platform for debating things in an organized fashion. Second, I also think there is a danger of us getting lost in the weeds and losing sight of the bigger picture. Third, I don't think any of us have the time to properly do so. Or at least I don't given my other commitments and obligations. So instead, I will try group together all of the arguments into broader themes and respond to them thematically instead of individually. It may not be immediately clear how, but I believe what is below directly or indirectly responds to everything that has been said.
First, I would like to say that I have appreciated having these exchanges. I genuinely believe that it is through constructive dialogue that we can at least move closer to co-existing peacefully, in mutual respect. The reality is none of us here are decision-makers. We do not have it within our power to make all of this go away. Only our respective guru's have such power. However, we do have it within our power to get along with one another despite our differences. We do have it within our power to respect one another despite our differences. We do have it within our power to make sure we individually live up to the ideals we have been taught as we disagree with one another. Most importantly, I also believe we have it within our power to find some common ground that we all agree on. I actually have an idea for a joint project that perhaps we can work on together. The goal of which would be to find areas and basic principles where we agree. Instead of exerting energy disagreeing, perhaps we can exert energy to find common ground. I have a few things I want to investigate first on my end, but I will soon email you privately with my idea.
Second, I genuinely believe this entire "controversy" has been emanated by all of the Buddhas to give us a chance to use the Dharma we have been taught to try work through it. Human history is replete with examples of people who sacrificed the ideals they stand for in defense of those very ideals. I believe when we do so, we defeat ourselves and our own cause. If Dharma is valid, then it should be strong enough to guide us in how we disagree with one another, and it is in applying the Dharma that we have learned that we can hope to find a resolution. Let's be honest, on both sides there have been many examples of people engaging in actions in contradiction with the Dharma they have been taught. Surely that is not the point. Surely what our gurus want of us is to use the Dharma they have taught us to work through our differences. They clearly do not want us to set aside what they have taught us in defense of what they have taught us. To put it another way, I believe religious disputes are "won" (if you will allow me to use that word) by those who best embody in their own behavior the teachings they seek to defend. If we view this whole controversy in this way, we can transform it from an existential "conflict" into a friendly spiritual competition of who can embody the teachings more. In this way, instead of dragging each other down, we can push each other to do even better and to practice what we have been taught even more. Then, only good will come. Then, I believe, we will realize WHY our gurus are having this dispute. They are doing so because they want us to put into practice what they have taught us. If they made it easy on us, how would we ever grow? Our task is to learn how to defend our respective traditions without betraying those same traditions with our own behavior while defending them. Our task is to learn how to respect and cherish one another while still disagreeing with one another.
Third, I don't believe any good can possibly come from focusing on the faults of others. Dharma is supposed to be a mirror with which we examine our own mind and our own behavior, not a magnifying glass with which we focus on the faults of others. I personally have no control over what other people do. I possess no magic wand that can make others change their behavior. It is up to each person to check their own behavior against what they have been taught and to make adjustments honestly and accordingly. What I can do is commit that in my own behavior I will strive to do the right thing. If others don't do the right thing, that is their mistake. Hopefully my example of doing the right thing will inspire them to also do the right thing, but even if it doesn't, I will still do the right thing. If others do the wrong thing towards me, then I will not use that as an excuse to do the wrong thing back, I will instead take it as further encouragement to do the right thing. I must abandon all attachment to or need for others to change. They don't need to change, I need to change. If they change, I am happy for them; if they don't, I will redouble my bodhichitta. Faults in others will still appear to my mind, but I must remind myself that the appearance of faults in others is actually a karmic reflection of the faults within my own mind. My task is to find those faults within myself and purge them like bad blood. The faults I perceive in others are reminders I need to eliminate such faults within myself.
Finally, I believe different religious traditions can harmoniously co-exist only if all agree to not impose their spiritual choices on others. Again, human history is replete with examples of people doing the opposite, and the lesson is clear: only harm comes from doing so. Sectarianism is ignorantly believing one has a monopoly on the truth combined with an attachment to others making the same spiritual choices that we do. Sectarianism is wrong, it is harmful, and it is unwise. Sectarianism must be resisted and rejected in all its forms. The opposite attitude is respecting all other traditions and spiritual choices as valid for those who follow and make them. We may choose to practice in one way, but we should have no need for others to make the same choices. Even if their choice is to criticize me or my tradition, I must respect that to. Those who criticize me are my kind benefactors who give me a chance to better identify my own mistakes and to change accordingly. If they falsely accuse me of something it is because I am appearing to their mind in a way different than I intend. Motivated by compassion for them, it is therefore incumbent upon me to make sure in my own behavior I do not do what they are falsely accusing me of doing. Then, hopefully through my clearer behavior, they might come to see me differently and therefore no longer see me in a mistaken way.
The beauty of emptiness is different people can hold different, even opposite, views, and it is not a problem at all. There is no objective truth, there are only more and less beneficial ways of viewing things. The beneficial way of viewing all things is to view them all as emanated to give me an opportunity to practice Dharma and become a better person. If everybody is doing that, then it is all good, even when we disagree with one another.
Your Dharma brother,
Ryan

Interesting perspectives from Kadampa Ryan may you find th common ground for the Dorje Shugden ban.

[psylotripitaka]

Skillful. Encouraging focus on training the mind is important.

In dialogue about the controversy, the most essential point that should be continuously revisited and reminded of is that a mere difference of religious opinion is not a valid reason to persecute people. People are welcome to disagree about Dorje Shugden, but people often get lost in debate and miss the basic point. Who Dorje Shugden is or isn't is completely irrelevant when we're talking about basic human and religious rights.

It doesn't matter how Lhamo Dondrub came to his decision to ban the practice. The ban and abuse of rights is wrong. That so-called "Buddhists", supposed expert logicians, and people who generally have common sense can't seem to grasp this most basic concept is absolutely astonishing.

Seriously, this whole controversy comes down to this basic concept - Buddha said 'don't harm others, be kind'. Is that an extremely complex philosophical proclamation or complicated formula in rocket science? No. Yet supporters of Lhamo Dondrub continually defend human rights abuse. So how can these people even consider themselves to be following the Buddhist Way of Life? That they continually deny the overwhelming evidence of abuse as well as how the ban contradicts the most basic Buddhist view indicates a serious degeneration of the Buddhist tradition. This complete loss of common sense and ability to see reason should continuously be met with common sense and basic sound reasoning, just as the Buddhas tell us the same thing over and over in hopes we'll eventually get it. So Kadampa Ryan is trying to appeal to these people's common sense or reason. I'm sure this attempt has the applaud of the Holy Beings. Good job, keep it up.

[Lineageholder]

Skillful. Encouraging focus on training the mind is important.

In dialogue about the controversy, the most essential point that should be continuously revisited and reminded of is that a mere difference of religious opinion is not a valid reason to persecute people. People are welcome to disagree about Dorje Shugden, but people often get lost in debate and miss the basic point. Who Dorje Shugden is or isn't is completely irrelevant when we're talking about basic human and religious rights.

It doesn't matter how Lhamo Dondrub came to his decision to ban the practice. The ban and abuse of rights is wrong. That so-called "Buddhists", supposed expert logicians, and people who generally have common sense can't seem to grasp this most basic concept is absolutely astonishing.

Seriously, this whole controversy comes down to this basic concept - Buddha said 'don't harm others, be kind'. Is that an extremely complex philosophical proclamation or complicated formula in rocket science? No. Yet supporters of Lhamo Dondrub continually defend human rights abuse. So how can these people even consider themselves to be following the Buddhist Way of Life? That they continually deny the overwhelming evidence of abuse as well as how the ban contradicts the most basic Buddhist view indicates a serious degeneration of the Buddhist tradition. This complete loss of common sense and ability to see reason should continuously be met with common sense and basic sound reasoning, just as the Buddhas tell us the same thing over and over in hopes we'll eventually get it. So Kadampa Ryan is trying to appeal to these people's common sense or reason. I'm sure this attempt has the applaud of the Holy Beings. Good job, keep it up.

Excellent post! I'm in full agreement that the issue is about human rights abuses. How can they use religious views to justify abusing people when the essence of Dharma teaching is compassion and love for others? I agree that the fact that the false Dalai Lama and his followers cannot see this indicates the degeneration of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition which is sad.

[WisdomBeing]

Skillful. Encouraging focus on training the mind is important.

In dialogue about the controversy, the most essential point that should be continuously revisited and reminded of is that a mere difference of religious opinion is not a valid reason to persecute people. People are welcome to disagree about Dorje Shugden, but people often get lost in debate and miss the basic point. Who Dorje Shugden is or isn't is completely irrelevant when we're talking about basic human and religious rights.

It doesn't matter how Lhamo Dondrub came to his decision to ban the practice. The ban and abuse of rights is wrong. That so-called "Buddhists", supposed expert logicians, and people who generally have common sense can't seem to grasp this most basic concept is absolutely astonishing.

Seriously, this whole controversy comes down to this basic concept - Buddha said 'don't harm others, be kind'. Is that an extremely complex philosophical proclamation or complicated formula in rocket science? No. Yet supporters of Lhamo Dondrub continually defend human rights abuse. So how can these people even consider themselves to be following the Buddhist Way of Life? That they continually deny the overwhelming evidence of abuse as well as how the ban contradicts the most basic Buddhist view indicates a serious degeneration of the Buddhist tradition. This complete loss of common sense and ability to see reason should continuously be met with common sense and basic sound reasoning, just as the Buddhas tell us the same thing over and over in hopes we'll eventually get it. So Kadampa Ryan is trying to appeal to these people's common sense or reason. I'm sure this attempt has the applaud of the Holy Beings. Good job, keep it up.

"don't harm others, be kind" is what i strongly believe in too. As Lineageholder also says, the degeneration of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition is sad. Buddha also said that Buddhism will be destroyed from within, and this schismatic ban is simply proof of this prophecy. However, i am the eternal optimist and i think that if Buddhists realise this and create the karma to be harmonious and kind to one another and LIVE the Buddhist tenets, then perhaps we can change the karma for Buddhism to fade away. Or at least create the karma to delay it so that more people can benefit from Buddhism, especially tantra, before the end of this kaliyuga age.