Dalai Lama Recognizes the Bön

[DharmaSpace]

Dalai Lama Recognizes the Bön
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/dalai-lama-recognizes-the-bon/

This is a noticeable distinction between how the Dalai Lama treats Dorje Shugden and also other faiths like the Bon that relies on nature spirits and even non enlightened but powerful beings.

It is a clue for the anti shugden people why the Dalai Lama would not be impartial in the treatment of others, and why is there double standards in his decisions. To me it suggest there is much more than meets the eye with the Dorje Shudgen issue it is not so literal as we think it to be.

[Ringo Starr]

I've often wondered about why the Dalai Lama, who is or was officially a political head of the Tibetans, a position which H.H. has relinquished, continueS to make remarks regarding spirituality when he is not a spiritual head.

From Wikipedia:

The Dalai Lama is traditionally thought to be the rebirth in a line of tulkus who are considered to be manifestations of the bodhisattva of compassion, Avalokite?vara. The Dalai Lama is often thought to be the leader of the Gelug School, but this position belongs officially to the Ganden Tripa, which is a temporary position appointed by the Dalai Lama who, in practice, exerts much influence.

The line of Dalai Lamas began as a lineage of spiritual teachers; the 5th Dalai Lama assumed political authority over Tibet.

For certain periods between the 17th century and 1962, the Dalai Lamas sometimes directed the Tibetan government, which administered portions of Tibet from Lhasa.

The 14th Dalai Lama remained the head of state for the Central Tibetan Administration ("Tibetan government in exile") until his retirement on March 14, 2011. He has indicated that the institution of the Dalai Lama may be abolished in the future, and also that the next Dalai Lama may be found outside Tibet and may be female.[3]

[yontenjamyang]

There is a lot confusion regarding the institution of the Dalai Lama. Firstly with regards to whether the Dalai Lama is a spiritual or secular/politically head of Tibetans. Since the Fifth Dalai Lama the institution Dalai Lama was the political head. Before that the Dalai Lama were spiritual lineage tulkus of the Lama Tsongkhapa's direct disciple, Gendun Drup. But since he is the one who appoints the Ganden Tripa ie the seat of Lama Tsongkhapa doesn't that make the Dalai Lama "higher" than the Ganden Tripa?
I would say the Dalai Lama is more of a secular head who happened to gained that power from a spiritual position ie from the Fifth Dalai Lama's time. And from that time the Dalai Lama's role have been mixed up to be the spiritual head when in fact he is not.

[WisdomBeing]

At first when i saw the title of this thread, i thought it said the Dalai Lama Recognizes the Ban!

Anyway, i just wanted to address what Ringo says, which is that the Dalai Lama is not the spiritual head, and YontenJamyang's comment about the Ganden Tripa.

Firstly, i believe that the Dalai Lama is seen as the spiritual head of Tibet. The institution of the Dalai Lama became mixed with politics when the Great 5th Dalai Lama became the political and spiritual head of Tibet. Since 2011, he outwardly handed over his leadership of the Tibetan government-in-exile (now known as the Central Tibetan Administration) to the supposedly democratically elected Lobsang Sangay, a then 42-year-old lawyer from Harvard. Although the Dalai Lama has publicly stepped down from his political position, it appears that he is still an advisor to the political direction of the CTA, otherwise how does one explain the continued ban on Dorje Shugden which is a spiritual and not a political matter?

Secondly, re the Ganden Tripa, it is true that the Dalai Lama is often mistakenly seen as the head of the Gelugpa school. The Dalai Lama IS of the Gelugpa school but he is not the head. The Ganden Tripa is. The position of Ganden Tripa is not passed down through reincarnations but it is earned by working their ways up the ranks. This is because Lord Tsongkhapa had wanted an ordinary person - even a goat herd - to be able to attain the position of the Ganden Tripa simply by working hard. It is the ultimate meritocratic system.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganden_Tripa, i love it that they have left the biography of the 101st Ganden Tripa there:

In January 2003, the Central Tibetan Administration announced the nomination of the 101st Ganden Tripa. An excerpt from that press release gives his background:

The 101st Ganden Tripa, Khensur Lungri Namgyel Rinpoche was born in 1927 in Kham (eastern Tibet). Ordained at eight years old, after fifty years of meditative practices and studies he was elevated by the Dalai-lama as successively abbot of Gyutö Tantric College (in 1983), and as abbot of Ganden Shartse Monastic University (in 1992). In 1986 he was the special envoy of the Dalai-lama to the ecumenical meetings of Assisi in Italy convened by Pope John Paul II. He is a French national and has been living in Paris, France for more than 20 years. He transmits the Buddhist teachings of his lineage in a Dharma Center, Thar Deu Ling[4] which he founded in 1980.

Since this 101st Ganden Tripa publicly moved to Shar Ganden after his term as Ganden Tripa ended, I have always been impressed by his openly declaring his loyalty to Dorje Shugden. If the Ganden Tripa can say he propitiates Dorje Shugden, and he was the head of the Gelugpa order, does that mean that the head was wrong?

[Blueupali]

@Wisdombeing--- I also thought it was that the DL recongizes the ban at first--- to which I thought, oh did he finally notice he has one?
  Okay Wisdombeing, with all due respect to the Gelugpas, who are most people who are on this site I guess, no the 5th Dalai Lama was not the spiritual leader of Tibet, not just by my own opinion, but when he is having Kagyupas murdered right and left, well, do you think the Kagyupas said, wow! What a great guy!  No, they couldn't say that because  I guess their heads were too like detached from their bodies and stuck on like spikes or poles (Shamar Rinpoche's teaching from Kagyu Conference Kathmandu March 2001).  So, a lot of Kagyu monasteries got forcibly converted to Gelugpa at that time.  The Panchen lama did ask the 5th Dalai to cool it with the civil war (he invited Mongol invaders to Tibet who killed Kagyupas for him) and told him Karmapa wasn't at fault but did dude listen?  Nope.  Dalai did not listen to his guru.  (wait--- that does seem familiar for people with the title Dalai.  Hmm.  Maybe the 14th does have connection to the 5th, perhaps got out of hell recently, then?). 
  Okay, so while I get that a lot of people really dig the Dalai, please understand, from the perspective of one whose first teachers were Kagyupas, that you know, I am certain, more certain than I can express, that there is no possible way that the 10th Karmapa had anything to do with the civil war (other than to try to get people to stop fighting) nor did his monks.  That is a load of horse manure--- that any real Karmapa would ever harm anyone or attempt to do anything but perfectly help people.  I get that it must be hard to be told the Dalai is a Buddha over and over, and then also be in the same lineage the whole time that he is messing around in the most (Gelugpa).  But for real, there has been a long standing issue between the Kagyu and the Gelugpas, mostly I guess because the Kagyus were perceived as threats by Gelugpa Dalai.
  The Dalais ACT evil--- not saying they are or aren't evil--- I said ACT evil.  Now, no duly recognized Karmapa has ever ACTED evil.  Just saying.  An interesting read is Shamar Rinpoche's "A Golden Swan in Turbulent Waters," which is about the life and times of the 10th Karmapa, who was contemporary to the 5th Dalai.
  So while there may be people cow-towing and while westerners are very easy to trick (especially with the Nobel laureate propaganda techniques).... no a LOT of people, would not see the Dalai as spiritual head of Tibetan Buddhism, but rather like this dictator that they don't want to be around.
  I am just explaining, because I found it interesting the Gelugpa side of the story (Dalai is Buddha, did not any wrong, just wrathful against Kagyus during time 5th).... except that I am not buying it, because he is the dictator, and I know what Karmapas are like, and I know they didn't start a civil war during the time of the 5th Dalai....

[kris]

regardless of HH Dalai Lama's "title", and He may not be the head, He definitely has a lot of influence in Tibetan community, and  in the western world.

anyway..

different religions are different in their believes. Buddhism believes in karma, re-incarnation, etc. some believe in heaven/hell after life, etc. Though I am a buddhis and believe in karma and all, i can't say go around condemn other religions and say they are wrong. instead, we need to be open, accepting, tolerating and embracing.

But does it mean we simply accept all religions, even some preach to kill others? IMHO, we should accept religions which do not hurt others and do no preach to heart others.

As such, Bon may be worshiping spirit, but they didn't hurt others, and I don't see any issue with HH Dalai Lama accepting Bon. Actually, I feel it is necessary to accept Bon.

However, just because HH Dalai Lama conveniently claim that Dorje Shugden practitioners are related to China and causes division/disunity within Tibetan community, Dorje Shugden is suppressed. Furthermore, this false accusation is baseless.

Dorje Shugden practitioners focus on learning the Dharma and spread the teachings of Lama Tsongkapa, why Dorje Shugden practitioners receive such different treatment from Bon practitioners?

It is time to lift the ban already!!

[DharmaSpace]

When people label Dorje Shugden practice, Dorje Shudgen and even Dorje Shugden lamas as sectarian it really bothers me to the maximum. Dorje Shugden does not create divisions, there are deep divisions in Tibetan even before the arrival of Dorje Shugden, like for instance Buddhist vs non Buddhist (Bon), Gelug versus Kagyus during the time of 5th Dalai Lama if that was not not sectarian we might as well throw out the word sectarian. Recognition of the karmapa by the Dalai lama it is unprecedented and has thrown many Karma Kagyu practitioners to take sides and very much like the Dorje Shudgen issue.

In the instance of the Kagyu versus Gelug during the 5th Dalai lama's time, usually when we look at the past given the information our vision can be 20/20 in saying this is wrong and this is right, but much information is lost about what was happening on the ground, the emotional responses of the people then. The Dalai Lama as an institution was not established at that time, and after the war The Dalai Lama reconciled with the Karmapa who exiled himself for a good many years. If the Dalai Lama had nefarious intentions he and his power base could have dealt with the Karmapa once and for all. If the Dalai Lama's regent did nothing perhaps the Karmapa role would have been institutionalised into Tibetan politics instead of the Dalai Lama. Like it or not  that war is part of the reason lama Tsongkhapa's tradition is still strong in Tibet and remained so until the Chinese invasion. So to label the Dalai lama as a blood thirsty warlord does not cut it for me.

[Blueupali]

When people label Dorje Shugden practice, Dorje Shudgen and even Dorje Shugden lamas as sectarian it really bothers me to the maximum. Dorje Shugden does not create divisions, there are deep divisions in Tibetan even before the arrival of Dorje Shugden, like for instance Buddhist vs non Buddhist (Bon), Gelug versus Kagyus during the time of 5th Dalai Lama if that was not not sectarian we might as well throw out the word sectarian. Recognition of the karmapa by the Dalai lama it is unprecedented and has thrown many Karma Kagyu practitioners to take sides and very much like the Dorje Shudgen issue.

In the instance of the Kagyu versus Gelug during the 5th Dalai lama's time, usually when we look at the past given the information our vision can be 20/20 in saying this is wrong and this is right, but much information is lost about what was happening on the ground, the emotional responses of the people then. The Dalai Lama as an institution was not established at that time, and after the war The Dalai Lama reconciled with the Karmapa who exiled himself for a good many years. If the Dalai Lama had nefarious intentions he and his power base could have dealt with the Karmapa once and for all. If the Dalai Lama's regent did nothing perhaps the Karmapa role would have been institutionalised into Tibetan politics instead of the Dalai Lama. Like it or not  that war is part of the reason lama Tsongkhapa's tradition is still strong in Tibet and remained so until the Chinese invasion. So to label the Dalai lama as a blood thirsty warlord does not cut it for me.

Ah, DharmaSpace, no one is saying the 5th Dalai was a bloodthirsty warlord, just that he did in fact invite the Monguls to Tibet who slaughtered everyone in the Karmapa's entourage except for the Karmapa and one attendant, who escaped the country to exile; Karmapa did not return to Tibet until a year before his own death.  Yes, Karmapa, bodhisattva that he is did make peace with the Dalai, (who was also getting rid of Tulku Drakpa Gystesen that same lffe.  Very busy this 5th Dalai). 

Okay so here is an excerpt from the letter the Delegates at the Kagyu Conference in Kathmandu wrote to the DL, in 2001, which mentions some of the same information that Shamar Rinpoche gave us at the conference:

 "This coincided with a period during which the Tibetan government was controlled by the Kagyupas. Hostilities peaked in 1638 when the Fifth Dalai Lama invited the Mongolian army under Goshir Khan to invade Tibet. The Gelugpa and Mongol alliance was subsequently responsible for the death by decapitation of virtually all abbots from one thousand Karma Kagyu monasteries. All these monasteries were converted to the Gelugpa order by force. The Tenth Karmapa's camp came under attack and over seven thousand of his monks were slaughtered. Only Karmapa and his attendant managed to escape. The Karmapa was forced to stay in exile for the next forty years."
http://www.karmapa-issue.org/arguments.htm

In the teaching itself, Rinpoche mentioned that the heads of decapitated Kagyupa monks were displayed on posts, by er... the Dalai Lama's side of things.
  So look, I understand that somehow or other there are people who are saying they really are devoted to Shugden and also to the DL--- in any recognition.  Okay, I appreciate that not everyone has the same outlook, and I have a reaction to the DL of wanting to hide if I hear his name, so he won't decapitate anybody.... and frankly because of all the 5th DL depictions of himself as Je Tsongkhapa, though I LOVE Dorje Shugden, and I really appreciate Je Tsongkhapa's teachings, it took me awhile to be comfortable with statues of Je Tsongkhapa.  Because I associate him with Gelugpas which are often beheading everybody, banning Shugdens etc.  After awhile in the NKT, with Shugden and Tsongkhapa together, I feel happy with Tsongkhapa around, as long as DS is also depicted nearby.  So for me, when lamas say they are like Tsongkhapa or Chenrezig by making it virtually illegal to disagree with them, then it can cause obscurations in the minds of people.  I finally understand Je Tsongkhapa is Manjushri, so I am not scared of his image anymore, but you know the DL can make people turn from Tsongkhapa by misrepresenting his teachings.
  I am just sharing so you understand, I am not saying you cannot personally have pure view within you, I am just saying for some of us, the association of the 5th DL to pretend to be Tsongkhapa has negative effects on our faith, because he certainly didn't act like Tsongkhapa. 

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Dharma Space, there is certainly double standards on His Holiness Dalai Lama's decision to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden based on his reason that DS is a spirit whereas on the other end, HH does recognizes the Bon religion. Surely, as you have suggested, I believe that we do not have the right clarity yet to see the real reason for the ban. For me, the best thing to do at this time is to follow faithfully the instructions given to me by my kind guru. There is no need for us with deluded views to comment on the actions of the emanation of Chenrezig. For, when the ban is lifted, all would be revealed.

[christine V]

Angry, surprise, disappointed with Dalai Lama. How should i further express my feeling.

A spiritual leader who is known to be the embodiment of Aloketesvara because of politic intended to ruin the truth lineage of Buddhist. Wow? what more to say. Only question asked - why so biases and what is Dalai Lama trying to do...

[Kim Hyun Jae]

As an enlightened master, guru, leader of Tibetan Buddhism and Nobel Prize winner HH the Dalai Lama approves the practice of Bon, which is a worldly and mystical. I am unable to accept this fact that the Dalai Lama would do everything he can to go against the "norm" practice and is expected of him.

He bans Dorje Shugden claiming DS is an unenlightened protector when he is Manjushri and now His Holiness accepts the Bon practice.

What in the world is Tibetan Buddhism degenerating into? So disappointed.

[dondrup]

It baffles anyone completely why Dalai Lama had recognised Bon instead of Dorje Shugden! If Dalai Lama could not provide satisfactory answers to these ten questions as set forth in this article, Dalai Lama had failed miserably as a Nobel Peace Prize Winner and specifically as a prominent Buddhist leader and monk! Dalai Lama simply does not practise what he taught!

Are there hidden meanings within Dalai Lama’s actions to recognise Bon and to ban Dorje Shugden?

[lotus1]

I have no issue on HH Dalai Lama treat the Bon equally as a human / being. However, I am not agreeable to the fact that he recognized the Bon as one of the sixth principal spiritual school of Tibet, recognizing and advocating the Bön religion and its teachings as being a worthy source of refuge.  We have learned that they are not enlightened beings and we should not take refuge to them. If we do, we would also break our refuge vows! Why would Dalai Lama do this? Hasn’t he broken his vows then?

The sad part is Dalai Lama is against the holy emanation of Manjushri, Dorje Shugden and treated him as a spirits. Besides, he is allowing the discrimination on the Dorje Shugden practitioners by CTA. If you do not recognized Dorje Shugden as a Buddha is OK, but why discriminate on the practitioners? Why can't they be treated equally as a human / beings? Why do they deserve the harm and violence?

Why is there double standard??!!

[happysun]

Honestly, two points I would like to share are: (1) HHDL is a well known high Lama, he also the Noble prize winner I don’t have qualify to comment what had he done towards his own students, Bon practitioner and Shugdenpas. My thought is we cannot doubled standard for one same issue. It will make public like me feel confuse or lost what is the direction I should follow?

If HHDL can recognize Bon then DL must also accept Dorje Shugden. I think this is fair enough for each part and avoid conflict between different group of student and lineage. As icon celebrity of Buddhism sector, DL always become the focus point for all the international medias. Whatever DL said and do will create a huge impact towards the public. So, my point is everything must be fair for each part, because it is basic of Buddhism philosophy—equanimity.

Second, I also truly believed that HHDL have more deeper meaning in behind why he make this decision. Like what I said above, he is high Lama and as well known high incarnation Lama, he should be very clear the consequences after the decision. May be I not enough merit to see through this issue, but I believed he can. Out of full compassion, seem like DL make a lot of conflicts in this current period, may be those conflict will turn into good result after time flying…??? I hope so!

My comments seem like paradoxically but I too speak out through bottom of my heart. I believed many people also have same feeling like me. Thank you for create this platform for us to share our thought and opinion.

[Blueupali]

HappySun,
 
  In response to what you said:
  "Second, I also truly believed that HHDL have more deeper meaning in behind why he make this decision. Like what I said above, he is high Lama and as well known high incarnation Lama, he should be very clear the consequences after the decision. May be I not enough merit to see through this issue, but I believed he can. Out of full compassion, seem like DL make a lot of conflicts in this current period, may be those conflict will turn into good result after time flying…??? I hope so!"

I have to say, that is all well and nice to think that or practice that, but if it is our family who are having their houses set on fire, who are denied medical care, whose fingers are being cut off because they won't give up the practice of Shugden, then we can all say oh maybe I don't have the merit to see that.... or there is the tale that the emperor is not wearing clothes--- only stupid people were not supposed to see the clothes, but he was walking around naked--- and really had no clothes.