Prof. Robert Thurman and "Cult"

[TARA]

It seems to me that anything to do without Dalai Lama's sanction or approval in Tibetan Buddhism, to Prof. Robert Thurman's understanding is a "cult".  He had mentioned Shugden Buddhists are a cult.  Here in this video he said Geshe Michael Roach's group in Tibetan Buddhism is a cult and Geshe Michael Roach is without reality check and is "off" after his retreat at Diamond Mountain.   

I find his comment is inappropriate and unworthy given that since he is a learned Buddhist professor his speech is uncalled for.  Is Prof. Robert Thurman highly attained to judge Geshe Michael Roach and comment as thus?


{Prof. Robert Thurman on Tibetan Buddhism & Michael Roach’s “cult” – Dateline NBC
March 10, 2014 by Justin Whitaker 0 Comments

Last fall I found out that someone at NBC was trying to get in touch with me about the Geshe Michael Roach story (links to all of the background are below). It turns out that NBC NY producer Anna Schecter was piecing together a story for Dateline and had come across some of my writing here on Patheos.

She and I spoke for some time. I told her about my background, how I was sort of a student of GMR in the early ’00s and traveled with friends from the UK to Ireland when he and (then ‘Lama’) Christie McNally were speaking there in 2005. Roach was charismatic, both in person and on the hours of audio and video recordings that his students had collected and put on the internet.

And, as Professor Robert Thurman notes in the video below, there is a great deal of good teachings in Roach, even to this day. But there is a bit of something “off” as well. In the Tibetan Geluk school of Buddhism, the most important relationship a person can have is with his or her guru/teacher. So when Roach’s own teacher, Khen Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin, died in 2004, Roach was set adrift. Perhaps consumed by his own intense popularity amongst his own students, Roach never endeavored to set himself back on a course within traditional Tibetan Buddhism.

What evolved over the years from 2004 (or a bit earlier) and the next five to ten years became something new, infused deeply with Roach’s Buddhist education along with Christianity, Hindu tantra, martial arts, and more. Syncretism is nothing new or non-Buddhist, however, as the religion has always borrowed from other traditions in one way or another and there have (pretty much) always been eccentric Buddhist masters.
…
The story, as I know it, has been told before. See the links below for that, and the videos here discussing some of Dateline’s piece. Yet it is a story worthy of telling and re-telling as American Buddhism develops.
Here Professor Robert Thurman describes Roach’s group as having “become a kind of cult,” adding that, “although there is a lot of good learning in it…” Thurman goes on to say that Roach may have got in over his head, lacking structure – a “reality check.” Following the brief discussion with Thurman you can also see Lama Lobsang Nyima speak about Ian Thorson (the man who died 2 years ago in the Arizona desert) and Nicole Sanderson, a former student of Geshe Michael Roach and Christy McNally, reflect on the people at Diamond Mountain and the fact that “this could happen to anyone.”}


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/americanbuddhist/2014/03/prof-robert-thurman-on-tibetan-buddhism-michael-roachs-cult-dateline-nbc.html

[Blueupali]

I don't know anything about Michael, but I do know that Robert Thurman follows the Dalai Lama like an S.S. man followed Hitler.  The Dalai Lama is always doing this-- he'll do something and then he'll act like everyone else is at fault--- like he has a big giant cult and then worries about whether others have a cult (via his intellectual henchmen, like Thurman)

[Klein]

Being a scholar in Tibetan Buddhism may not necessarily mean that he is a good practitioner. A scholar understands the teachings on an intellectual level. That is why he parrots what the Dalai Lama teaches and approves. Real practitioners do not criticize other's practice because they cannot be so arrogant to judge. For Robert Thurman to make such offensive remarks only show the level of his practice.

As a professor, Robert Thurman doesn't seem to investigate deeper on the situation of Dorje Shugden. Because if he does, he would not have the same conclusion as the Dalai Lama. Mr Thurman would also not support the ban of Dorje Shugden practice as it infringes on religious freedom. So even as a scholar, an intellect, he fails to look at the bigger picture and allows himself to be driven by his bias views.

[eyesoftara]

With due respect to Prof. Robert Thurman and his lovely daughter Uma (I am a fan of her), Prof. Thurman is disrobe in rather mysterious circumstances as well. He should understand that it is possible that Geshe Michael Roach can still be an authentic teacher and not necessarily a cult leader. Prof. Thurman to me is just being politically correct to keep his options open and to be right whatever the case with GMR may be. He did say that GMR has something good that we can learn from.
So to me, his comments is just neutral and a waste of our time. Even thought he said Shugden is also a cult, I will then what is not? Every religion can be called a cult if we want.

[rossoneri]

With due respect i admire Prof. Thurman general knowledge of Buddhism but in other hand i am not sure what it is his motivation behind these beautiful picture he is trying to paint here as he is also a very close person to His Holiness. I am sure he can see clearly what is going on here and with all the proof which he can find in DS.com and he must have read most of the article here, and yet just to be in the good book of the Dalai Lama he is clearly choose not to accept the truth of Dorje Shugden, an enlighten protector instead without any concrete proof but only based on the ban 'he says, she says' which was imposed by His Holiness, Prof. Thurman chose to act against this practice and accusing an enlighten being a 'Dogyal' which triggered all of us to think who Prof. Thurman really is and his motivation.

[MoMo]

Professor Thurman is well known for  his talent in popularizing the Buddha’s teachings. He is also described by The New York Times as the leading American expert on Tibetan Buddhism.  Even though Professor Thurman is  attracted to Tibetan Buddhism, have read loads of books, done numerous researches and have delved in deeper into Tibetan Buddhism, from  the way he has condemned other’s religion in the video ,  it only shows that he is just a scholar . Higher teachings are worthless if one can't even practice the most basic teachings, such as ethics (avoiding the ten non-virtuous actions). 

[Rihanna]

Why are we even surprise of his statement? Afew weeks ago, he tweeted asking Anonymous to hack into Shugden practitioners accounts!!! Can you believe this? And he is a Professor??

Read this posted by WisdomBeing on November 1, 2014.

 The well known Tibetologist and Buddhist from Columbia University, Robert Thurman, is asking  the infamous Anonymous group to hack into Shugden practitioners accounts! Why would he do that? Isn't that illegal? Where is the honesty and integrity of Buddhists - especially such a close and loyal follower of HH the Dalai Lama? Do the ends justify the means? Obviously Machiavellianism is endorsed to protect the Dalai Lama at all costs. Is it so that they can publish another hit list to expose Shugden practitioners so that a lynch mob (real or virtual) can get at them? What is the purpose?

The International Shugden group who conduct the protests are pretty public... and their names have been on a hit list already. Even though they are protesting peacefully, which is allowed in a democratic society. But obviously, democratic peaceful protests are not allowed behind the scenes of the benevolent Buddhist. Dictatorship and very direct threats to personal safety are more the modus operandi.

Scary to think what else they would do.

[fruven]

Prof. Robert Thurman has become a very good example of someone who acts like a judge when he is not in the position of doing that. We cannot deny that he has studied extensively on Tibetan Buddhism but studying and practicing are two different things. You can study extensively on engineering but you won't become an expert engineer because you lack practice, the application aspect of it.

[yontenjamyang]

Professor Thurman is well known for  his talent in popularizing the Buddha’s teachings. He is also described by The New York Times as the leading American expert on Tibetan Buddhism.  Even though Professor Thurman is  attracted to Tibetan Buddhism, have read loads of books, done numerous researches and have delved in deeper into Tibetan Buddhism, from  the way he has condemned other’s religion in the video ,  it only shows that he is just a scholar . Higher teachings are worthless if one can't even practice the most basic teachings, such as ethics (avoiding the ten non-virtuous actions).

I agree with Momo. Criticising others' religions is directly opposed to the basic practice of Buddhism. This is not dissimilar to all dictators in the history of the world and is the number one cause or disharmony and even wars has been fought for the same reason. Hence, Prof Thurman needs to practice what he preached and not criticise others. Criticism is cheap and dangerous. He should use his popularity and credibility to influence his audience in a positive way rather than being a bigot that he is in danger of becoming.

Please Professor practice compassion!

[cookie]

Robert Thurman has failed to practice the Wisdom of Equality. Irregardless of nationality, ethnic background, skin colour, sexual preference, gender, size, shape, looks, likes, dislikes or religious preferences, he should rain down compassion on all sentient beings. Unfortunately, pride or making comparisons is the big failing of the human realm.
If Thurman genuinely wants to "help" the Dorje Shugden practitioners he should take a more sincere and humble approach and hold dialogues to clear all the doubts.