is calling him "False Dalai Lama" going to help?

[kris]

I really appreciate International Shugden Community (ISC) organize all the protest against HH Dalai Lama on the basis of basic human rights (religious freedom). I think this approach makes a lot of sense because religious freedom or religious persecution will attract the attention of western media because HH Dalai Lama Himself wanted freedom from China.

However, I don't quite agree with claiming Him to be "False Dalai Lama". If you watch the protest videos, there are many posters with False Dalai Lama. I feel that claiming Him to be False will only create more anger and hatred between the 2 camps, and it is not helping the situation.

What do you think

[psylotripitaka]

It IS helping a great deal. It is a true statement for many reasons, and it has caused the media to take far greater interest in the situation than the subject matter of his talks. The DLCTA is making many mistakes due to the power and impact of the protests and proving to everyone that they've been lying, that what protesters are saying is true.

 The time for nice kiss ass requests passed a long time ago. The harm caused by the DLCTA and their supporters to living beings and the reputation of the 3 Holy Jewels far outweighs the petty anger of ignorant uninformed ill intentioned people who shouldn't even be calling themselves "Buddhist"!

[Matibhadra]

I feel that claiming Him to be False will only create more anger and hatred between the 2 camps,

The hatred from the camp of the evil dalie lame is already there. Not calling him for what he is is just helping to make the hateful ones even more impudent than they already are.

As to those on the side of human rights and religious freedom, it is their duty and their task to unmask falsity, and the hatred behind it, rather than abetting crimes and criminals.

Bottom line, no fresh hated is created, just the already existent hatred is exposed so that the hateful ones can be neutralized, and eventually led to where they belong, the garbage bin of history.

Besides, if one thinks well, just calling the evil dalie “false” is quite smooth, and not even fair, considering the  brutal, ruthless violator of human rights and religious freedom he is.

and it is not helping the situation.

Then according to you what “helps the situation” is to support and abet falsity, hatred, crimes, and criminals, is it?

[grandmapele]

Matibhadra: The hatred from the camp of the evil dalie lame is already there. Not calling him for what he is is just helping to make the hateful ones even more impudent than they already are.

Bottom line, no fresh hated is created, just the already existent hatred is exposed so that the hateful ones can be neutralized, and eventually led to where they belong, the garbage bin of history.

I agree with you, there already is existing hatred, healthy or not. But calling the Dalai Lama a 'false dalai lama' will get people reading the signs, stop and think, then try to find out more about why the Dalai Lama is called such. That was what made me delve a bit more rather than just saying 'oh, Dalai Lama protect, tsk, tsk' and walk away. It's all about getting the next person to do a bit of research. That's my 2 cents worth.

[lotus1]

Personally, I do not quite agreed on calling “False Dalai Lama, stop lying”. However, this slogan has attracted a lot of people including the media to stop and think what is this Shugden ban about. I do appreciate the effort and time that they have spent on the protest. 

By calling Dalai Lama as “False Dalai Lama”, it does create substantial pressure to the  CTA and pro-Dalai Lama team to take note on what they have been doing is to the Shugden practitioners is exposed to the world via the protests. They cannot hide from what they have been doing anymore while they still do not acknowledge on what they have been doing is wrong.

I would think for the moment, ISC may have no choice but to keep using that slogan to create interests in various parties to look into the Shugden Ban issue and hopefully the Dalai Lama will open to have a conversation to solve this issue once and for all.

The exclusive interview by Kelsang Rabten on the protest makes a lot of sense:
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/an-exclusive-interview-with-kelsang-rabten/

[Dondrup Shugden]

I agree with Lotus 1 that it is extremely impolite to call the Dalai Lama, "False Dalai Lama" but it is definitely catching attention.

The discrimination and segregation has been a long time now and the ISC need to take effective ways to have the ban resolved. 

Having said that, the sentiments of the protestors are filled with frustrations and as such although it is rude to call him the False Dalai Lama, Shugdenpas actually no longer have faith for him to lead any more.

[Tenzin K]

I believe in value of respect. I believe the Dalai Lama is the Chenrezig, the emanation of the compassion buddha but that doesn’t mean i agree with his action for the Shugden ban. Sorry to say I don’t have the wisdom to understand the suffering that teh Dalai Lama impose to the Shugden practitioners but i believe my lineage, my guru and they said Dalai Lama is the Chenrezig nd i have no question for that.

But as Shugden practitioners we follow through and hold strongly our samaya with our Guru which we will never abandon our lineage practice especially it was given by our dear Guru.

I will not disrespect the Dalai Lama by calling him the ‘False’ one even though the supporters/followers of the Dalai Lama have gone far with violent, discrimination, segregation but I will hold my stand because i believe in my Guru.

Respect is harmony and we should apply this in any disagreement for a solution.

[fruven]

I can't deny that what they protesters did has caught the attention of the media to pickup on the Dorje Shugden ban and discrimination which is still happening.

If one held Dalai Lama with respect and the slogan is having impact on people, and at the same these people begin doubting Dalai Lama's credibility then therefore it is considered to be detrimental from one's point of view? Look at it is this way, the Western are educated they would do more research before pre-judging the situation.

[Matibhadra]

I believe in value of respect.

If you did, you would not disrespect those disagreeing with you, suggesting as you do that they do not believe in the value of respect.

I believe the Dalai Lama is the Chenrezig, the emanation of the compassion buddha

What a disrespectful attitude towards the great bodhisattva Chenrezig, to say that he is a brutal violator of human rights and freedom such as the evil dalie!

I will not disrespect the Dalai Lama by calling him the ‘False’

Then you must necessarily disrespect Chenrezig, calling him a “brutal violator of human rights”, such as the evil dalie.

Besides, you do disrespect your human conscience, because you refuse to denounce a perpetrator of horrendous crimes, so that he may continue to perpetrate them, and thus harm many beings.

Respect is harmony and we should apply this in any disagreement for a solution.

Wanting an agreement with an impenitent criminal means wanting to become a criminal oneself. This is what you call “guru devotion”, but this is not the Buddha's teaching.

[eyesoftara]

If we believe the Dalai Lama is a Boddhisattva then surely he would have the Omniscience to see that this would happened and calling Him whatever is part of what is expected. So we will have people here who are uncomfortable to call Him false (me included) and there are still others who will counter this discomfort will point to point argument. Even this types of arguments are catered for by His Omniscience however significant or otherwise.

We all got a role to play and I think we just let the ISC play their role. Somebody got to play Starsky and some Hutch.  Let's see how it pans out. ISC plays their role and for those who respect the Dalai Lama, continue to respect Him.

For me I call a kettle black if it is black but at the same time respect the kettle for all the hot water for my tea. I see nothing wrong with it.

[Matibhadra]

Even this types of arguments are catered for by His Omniscience however significant or otherwise.

The evil dalie's “omniscience” was such that he believed that everyone would believe in his lies, however foolish or otherwise.

[VeronicaSmith]

I do not believe in the ban and I believe it is a clear violation of human rights as it is so cruel and the Shugden people suffer so much and so much more than anyone should have to in today's modern society. The problems they face is so cruel and I strongly believe that they should be allowed to believe in whatever they want. So i am definitely against the ban.

However, I believe that in buddhism we should not create hate or insult other gurus especially ones as high as the Dalai Lama, if we do not like a certain teaching or a way then we do not follow that path or go against it to help the people that it can be effecting so you should help do your part against it for the people if it is really that bad. But insulting or calling our the guru is not good in my opinion because we are not supposed to create hate or speak badly in Buddhism. On the other hand, it does help in getting the media's attention, but I think it is uncalled for.

[Tenzin Malgyur]

I am a Shugden believer and am most saddened by the ban imposed on the practice by His Holiness the Dalai Lama. But I feel that it is disrespectful to refer to the emanation of Chenrezig as the "False Dalai Lama". True that it has gotten the attention of the media worldwide and this issue is now not limited to only the Tibetans. I reckon it is time the protestors have a new powerful slogan for their protest.
On another note, do you agree that the ban on the practice of Shugden have propelled our protector to such a famed status?

[Matibhadra]

However, I believe that in buddhism we should not create hate

This topic has already been extensively discussed. Denouncing a criminal, specially an impenitent, ruthless criminal such as the evil dalie lame, is never an act of hatred, but rather of compassion for his powerless victims.

Now, abetting the brutal violator, as proposed by you, is definitely an act of hatred against humankind, which shows that your hypocritical “anti-hatred” discourse is actually driven by the very hatred you want to see in others.

or insult other gurus

There is no such thing as “other gurus” in this context. There is a brutal violator of human rights, deserving punishment for his crimes; and rightfully denouncing a criminal is never a case of “insulting”.

especially ones as high as the Dalai Lama,

Your theory is that criminals with some theocratic status should have a free hand to commit the most abhorrent crimes against humanity, and no one should be allowed even to denounce them.

Therefore, behind your Buddhist pretense, you are not different from Inquisition witch-hunters or Islamic State extremists: you love blood and violence, but you need to hide your disgusting taste behind some theocratic cloak. That's the function of religion to you.

But insulting or calling our the guru is not good in my opinion

“The guru”? Since a brutal violator of human rights, according to you, is “the guru”, it follows that you are no Buddhist to start with, and to continue you are an accomplice of his crimes, which you want to abet.

Therefore, it is just natural that you cannot bear criticism against the criminal activity of your “guru”, and that you misperceive him as “insulted” when he is just denounced for his crimes.

because we are not supposed to create hate or speak badly in Buddhism.

Why then do you try to protect your “high guru” and his hateful crimes?

On the other hand, it does help in getting the media's attention, but I think it is uncalled for.

It makes sense. Which criminal, or criminal abettor, would want media attention anyway?

[Matibhadra]

But I feel that it is disrespectful to refer to the emanation of Chenrezig as the "False Dalai Lama".

Funny, but I think would bet that any Buddhist would feel that it is disrespectful to refer to a brutal criminal as “the emanation of Chenrezig”.

I reckon it is time the protestors have a new powerful slogan for their protest.

Sure, for instance, “Evil dalie, you lie, but I don't care”, is this ok with you?

On another note, do you agree that the ban on the practice of Shugden have propelled our protector to such a famed status?

This is irrelevant. Our protector does not need fame or any other of the eight mundane dharmas, let alone through accomplicity with lies, violence, and brutality against human rights in general, and Tibetan people in particular.