SHOCKING!! - forum members support the ban and persecution

[psylotripitaka]

So let me get this straight, you believe the ban and suffering experienced by millions of people is necessary?

By encouraging people to see the Dalie Lama's actions as a Buddhas' skillful means to simply make a Buddhist Deity popular, you are necessarily saying the ban is good, schism is good, beating others is good, destroying others shrines and holy images is good, persecuting others is good, causing thousands of people to abandon Dharma is good, is important, is helpful, and necessary.

So someone comes to you crying because their family has been torn apart by the ban, and you look them in the face and say, 'well, just get over it, the Dalai Lama is Buddha and this is his skillful means to make our precious Protector to become popular; take a punch in the face for Dorje Shugden.'

A practitioners faith is so shaken they give up Dharma completely, and you say, 'well, you're the required collateral damage so Dorje Shugden can become popular.'

The Lama explains how the Dalie Lama is destroying the holy tradition of Je Tsongkhapa, and you say, 'well, you're wrong Lama, because the Dalai Lama is Buddha and all these problems are his skill for making Dorje Shugden popular, because you and all the other lineage holders teaching this practice throughout the world isn't good enough; don't you see Lama, he isn't destroying the tradition or reputation of the 3 Jewels, he's making Buddhism popular.'

Makes total sense you guys!

[psylotripitaka]

It is really unbelievable actually. We have like 9 pages of ridiculous dialogue about whether the Dalie Lama's actions are those of a Mahasiddha, where some of you are basically justifying the criminal actions of this guy and his supporters, whom you must necessarily count yourselves amongst them.

So let me get this straight, you want to rely on someone that lies, causes great suffering to living beings, and desecrates Je Tsongkhapa's tradition by dismissing his own lineage Gurus among other things. Good luck with that.

[psylotripitaka]

psylotripitaka
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Re: Why destroy Dorje Shugden now?
« Reply #21 on: Today at 09:38:18 PM »
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I see, so you're all saying that in order principally for Dorje Shugden to become popular - because all Lamas teaching it internationally already just wasn't adequate - it is necessary for Je Tsongkhapa's tradition to be desecrated, for people to be beaten, their shrines destroyed, their families ripped apart, schism in the Buddhist community, Buddhism to become popularly known for being an unreliable religion, medical services/jobs/schooling to be denied, 1000's of practitioners to abandon Dharma, 1000's of people to abandon their Gurus, 1000's of people to engage many heavy negative actions and so forth....that all of this is necessary collateral damage for a Buddhist Deity to become popular, and that all of this is the skillful means of a Buddha.

Could someone please explain how this view is NOT supporting and praising the ban, supporting persecution of living beings, supporting schism and so forth.
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[Matibhadra]

By encouraging people to see the Dalie Lama's actions as a Buddhas' skillful means to simply make a Buddhist Deity popular, you are necessarily saying the ban is good, schism is good, beating others is good, destroying others shrines and holy images is good, persecuting others is good, causing thousands of people to abandon Dharma is good, is important, is helpful, and necessary.

You nailed it.

May I just add that, if indeed Dorje Shugden demands so much evil to be perpetrated, and suffering to be undergone, just in order to increase his own popularity, it follows that rather than a buddha he is a despicable, bloodthirsty, evil mundane entity.

[grandmapele]

A lot of people are finding it hard to reconcile a lot of matters/incidences with the whole ban. But, I guess, every little bit of action helps. There's been a lot of death threats out there to not only the Tibetans but to non-Tibetans as well. It is getting increasingly violent and unsettling to the world. The Dalai Lama better do something soon or there may be no more Vajrayana in the near future.

[psylotripitaka]

Grandmapele,

While I have been understanding of the predicament some find themselves in trying to reconcile, what both Matibhadra and I are pointing out is that you cannot say you oppose the ban while at the same time praising the ban as the skillful means of a Buddha, and that in fact by doing so you become an accomplice to the criminal actions, are a hypocrite, undermine the efforts to stop the ban and its harmful effects, and should not consider yourself a genuine Buddhist.

By blabbering on and on about the Dalie Lama being a Buddha and in fact even writing things such as a long ridiculous article thanking him for establishing the ban, forum members of Dorje Shugden.com and the admin themselves do not seem to realize that in doing so they are flat out supporting the ban and all the suffering it causes, regardless of all their contradictory efforts to the contrary.

So I say to the admin of this site and forum members:

Either:

A) you are a genuine Buddhist that is working to end the tyranny and negativity of the ban, and in so doing you not only acknowledge the Dalie Lama and his inappropriate actions for what they are, but stop the non-sense of praising his heinous actions as those of a Buddha and instead call it out for what it is as me and Matibhadra and the ISC are doing, OR,

B) you continue to undermine the efforts to end the tyranny and persecution by praising the Dalie Lama, his ban, and thereby its results as the skillful means of a Buddha worthy of everybody's sincere thanks, and in so doing encourage the infliction of suffering and the committing of crimes.

You cannot do both, for they are necessarily contradictory.

If you genuinely wish to end the persecution, I believe that all of you who are continually promoting and praising the Dalie Lama and his ban as being the skillful means of a Buddha owe a huge apology to all those suffering from this ban, and should immediately stop justifying and praising the Dalie Lama's actions. If you do not, you are admitting your accomplicity to the Dalie Lama, a supporter of human and religious rights abuse!