Please listen to His Holiness Dalai Lama

[Ringo Starr]

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/treat-all-as-brothers-sisters-dalai-lama/story-e6frfku9-1227394904519

[psylotripitaka]

Ringo,

People are listening, but they are really confused by the Dalai Lama's contradictory advice:

- treat everyone as brothers and sisters with love and respect and compassion and be harmonius and tolerant and cultivate peace in this world

- but persecute Shugden practitioners.

It is so incredibly weird to read the outright denials of a ban or that there is no solid evidence of persecution, yet the evidence is right there from the mouth of their Guru. Are these people mentally challenged and unable to comprehend the blatant contradiction there. That's like people watching video footage of you being slapped in the face and you telling them you weren't slapped and there is no evidence you were slapped.

Anyways, the ban isn't the issue, the issue is the Dalai Lama has encouraged and does not discourage an active persecution of his Shugden brothers and sisters. It is his right to ban his students from practicing and to speak against the Protector, but it is not Buddhist to encourage people to disrespect others and make their life difficult. Nowhere in Buddha's teachings does it tell us to have partiality, look down on others, or make people's lives difficult, nowhere! Oh I see now, forget what Buddha Shakyamuni taught, the incarnation of Chenrezig tells you to have partiality, look down on others, and make their lives difficult, so your logic is that Buddha Chenrezig did teach that so it is valid. So, we're Buddhists, but according to the Dalai Lama it is perfectly ok to harm others?

I'm not going to call the Dalai Lama names anymore, but I still wish some of you here would explain to me how you can view the Dalai Lama as a valid Buddhist teacher when he teaches people to persecute others. I'm not gonna argue or debate with you about it - we can agree to disagree as you say - but it would be nice to get an answer nonetheless.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Any comment on this is actually years of repetition as to how a Shugdenpa would feel.  Although all humanity are brothers and sisters and also all sentient beings are your mothers, Shugdenpas did not and have not felt this kind of loving kindness for a long time.

Some of us have to hide our practice and some are persecuted in doing so.  Separation of monasteries for Shugdenpas is not an act of segregation but a form of prevention of further abuse.  Sad situation within the family of Buddhists and the world at large.

[kris]

I agree with Chokyi Dorje, that everyone is given compassion except for Dorje Shugden practitioners. It seems like we need to add condition to the Buddha's scripture, for example,

* "be kind to everyone" will be changed to "be kind to everyone except Shugden practitioners".
* "Dedication your merits to all sentient being" will be changed to "Dedication your merits to all sentient being except Shugden practitioners".

How far do we go about this?

[yontenjamyang]

This ban is very intriguing. In this article there is this recurring and very important theme of treating others as your love ones ie brothers, sisters or in Mahayana Buddhism, mothers; but at the same time the Dalai Lama seem to contradict this.

I can only find one example in real live that we will treat someone which compassion (like mothers) and yet show sternness and even wrath. The one group of people we will possibly treat in that why is our children. So, it follows, that the Dalai Lama is treating Shugdens like His children? Perhaps?!??

[angelica]

Due to our rebirth from 1 lifetime to another, anyone can be our brothers, sisters and mothers in previous life. Eventhough they may not be our brothers or sisters in this life, as a Buddhist that practice compassion should still treat others like our brothers and sisters.

THE Dalai Lama has urged his followers to follow his example by thinking of all humanity as their "brothers and sisters". How come the Shugdenpas don't get this treatment from HHDL? Dorje Shugden high lama, practitioners and followers have requested for a dialogue to resolve the ban, why is it not granted? Why HHDL refused to talk to his brothers and sisters? Is this the right way to treat one's brothers and sisters? HHDL please walk the talk, as your followers will look up at you and follow your action. Do not confuse your followers and lead them to do things that harmed others.

We sincerely requesting for a dialogue to resolve the ban.

[kelly]

If His Holiness Dalai Lama really a Buddha he should be very compassion to all living being without any discrimination towards the DS practitioner and if he think whatever action he is doing now is right please step out and talk to the DS Lama come out with a plan that will benefits more living being.

[grandmapele]

I would like to think, maybe naively, that there is a higher purpose to the Dalai Lama's actions. If there is no higher purpose, then it is indeed a very sorry day for Buddhism especially Tibetan Buddhism which is receiving a lot of brick bracks nowadays. We are taught that we are to view our Lama as the Buddha on earth and that they are omniscient. In this life, I will believe that and if it does not turn out to be true, at least I have lived a good life and done less harm because of that.

[vajrastorm]

It is almost impossible to understand why HH Dalai Lama talks about all men as being brothers, why he can embrace Bon as a religion  and, at the same time, denounce all Shugden practitioners as spirit worshippers. This stance defies logic and reason. The only possibility is that he, being Chenrezig's emanation,  has a higher( enlightened) motive and purpose behind his contradictory actions and behaviour. Yes, I would like to think there is a higher purpose and all these illogical actions of discriminating against Shugden practitioners and imposing a ban on the practice of Shugden(claiming He is a spirit) must come from a pure motive and the heart of compassion of Chenrezig.

[Joo Won]

"I always think (of) all of you as my brothers and sisters, so please you also from today should think entire humanity are our brothers and sisters"...this is what His Holiness said in Australia two months ago; and He always says treat all equally, including non-Buddhists like Christians, Catholics and Muslims and etc.

I guess when you say entire humanity, this would include Dorje Shugden practitioners. Why single out Dorje Shugden people? This does not make sense at all.

As an educated or at least one with some sense, not necessary a Buddhist, you would know that does not make sense for His Holiness to ask a group of his people to against another group of people, purely based on what path they are choosing.

Except, that group of people who act to discriminate, to hurt, to segregate and mistreat another group of people - in this case Dorje Shugden practitioners - is actually and precisely reflects what your true quality is, and your true colour, your true self --- which you are not only a person who is lack of the thought of equality, empathy, compassion or kindness; but you are actually a person without much integrity and low moral....Dorje Shugden people just one of the targets you are getting on to. Today it's Dorje Shugden people, tomorrow it might be another group of people as your target of attack. 

Their act of attack and hatred by blindly following His Holiness and using him as an excuse, might be telling they have anger and hatred inside them.



 

[Rinchen]

Well said Chokyi Dorje!

If everyone should be respected like what H.H Dalai Lama has said, then why are Dorje Shugden practitioners excluded? Since everyone should be treated equally, then wouldn't that make sense if what is said is also applicable to Dorje Shugden practitioners instead of excluding them? Is this even fair?

Shugden practitioners are also human beings or so to say a sentient being. What makes Shugden practitioners so different then? The only difference that we have is that we continued with our practice although people do not agree with what we do. But that is no wrong as well. Dorje Shugden practice had been passed down to us from our Gurus. By defying our guru and breaking that guru devotion then it will be a sin, but by keeping to our commitments, why are we still being put to shame then?

[Jason Statham]

I like the way how the Shugden practitioners acted when the 14th Dalai Lama said that. How can the Dalai Lama say that when He is actually mistreating the Shugden practitioners like us? In another forum post (here is the link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4724.0;topicseen) During the interview He said that no harm were done to the Shugden practitioners that day but the truth is that around 3000 Tibetans were attacked by representatives of the Dalai Lama. But in His other speech in front of the audiences, He said: (He fully support the actions of the people and even praised the people who opposed the Shugden Practitioners). Is this what a Dalai Lama should be saying? Also when He said this: "I always think (of) all of you as my brothers and sisters, so please you also from today should think entire humanity are our brothers and sisters", Did He actually consider us (The Shugden Practitioners) as humans as well? Is it really okay to say that? What about us? Aren't we supposed to be considered as humans too. I am not saying that the Dalai Lama is bad or anything, but as a High Lama like Him, how can He say something so unconsidered? Thank You for reading.

[yontenjamyang]

In the practice of Tibetan Buddhism especially, we also are confronted with the fact that we as practitioners view things as ordinary ie from the worldly framework. Even when the Guru manifest certain behaviour, we view this via our world framework. We have been advise many times on the Lama Chopa prayers, 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotions and the Lamrim that this is in fact our faults and we need to change this view.

The rule of thumb is if we re confronted with this kind of view knowing that the Lamas are manifestations of the Buddhas and hence must be correct, then we need to study and contemplate the Dharma on how all these can be reconciled. Only then can we improve. Meanwhile, keep our minds open and respect all.

[Blueupali]

What we need to do is disavow any institution of the Dalai in religion--- he was a stateslama--- in Tibet where religion and state were mixed--- that is unhelpful in the maxium--- and useless as well--- it is like the Tibetans escaped from the monarch and the communists to a democracy in India--- it obviously hasn't been fair--- but not because there is such a problem with democracy!  Democracy in government is the way to go, for real, it's the best way; religion and government MUST remain separate for that to work.... India is nice to take the Tibetans in--- the Dalai Lama --- anything--- even a teacup can be a Buddha guys emanating--- but whatever--- since we can't tell, what does it matter--- if he were one--- can you not get the subtext of this uh "teaching," isn't cow-tow to the Dalai Lama--- don't let China pick your lamas, don't let the Dalai Lama pick your lamas either--- bc that is China who will pick them--- hello--- just like they did the false Karmapa.  And trust me, even though I more or less like the U.S. government (democracy yes the Republicans are war mongers so I don't like THEM as a Buddhist, ok) I DO NOT WANT THE U.S. F ing CIA deciding who the "Pope" of Buddhism is--- that is so un-American of them-- to be involved in religion like that--- it only works in their minds because they don't understand that Buddhism is valid--- Separate church and state.  Say no more Dalai Lamas---- recognize them no more---- because that is like recognizing King so and so--- and we don't need to--- let's not follow them--- whatever style govt we are in--- we need church and state to be completely separate---- hopefully China itself will one day move to a social democracy like Europe--- but until then--- protect yourself from their meddling--- accept the resignation of the Dalai Lama--- he says he doesn't want to be reincarnated-- fine by me!  EVERYTHING he is doing indicates that he wants us to notice that a Dalai Lama is the dead last thing we need--- or any politically appointed lamas or lamas in government etc.... Get rid of him in recognitions--- if you want him to teach you (gag me) then please pray he reincarnate as your own like local monk....

[Rinchen]

@Blueupali, i disagree with what you have said. Yes it is true that church and state needs to be two separate issues. This H.H Dalai Lama has seen this that is why it is the lay people that are the Sikyong now.

But it is in fact that the CTA does not know that church and state cannot be mixed. They take the issue of the ban to highly. Simple reason to this, when they do not perform, they can just fall back and blame Dorje Shugden for their failure. As the CTA, they are not doing anything much for their own people. What they have done is only creating more segregation among the Tibetans.

Instead, what they should do is to actually unite the Tibetans showing the Chinese government that they are able to be leaders and lead their people in peace. Showing that even though Tibetans are scattered everywhere in the world, but they are still able to have control over them just like any other capable government is doing for their citizens. However, the CTA has failed to do so. What they have done is that they have shown discrimination to the citizens that do not see things eye to eye with them. Coming up with nonsensical things like hit lists which creates more tension between their citizens. Adding on to their burden of being refugees.

If this is what a good government is, they would not have lost their land in the first place. If all countries govern their people like that, the whole world will be a big mess. There will be zero civilisation. People will be living in fear all their lives.

Thus, in my opinion, if the CTA really wants Tibet back under their governance, they should first differentiate what is church and what is state. Then work towards their people seeing themselves as one whole.