Dalai Lama’s office engages discussion of Shugden controversy

[DharmaSpace]

Dalai Lama’s office engages discussion of Shugden controversy

BY HEATHER WARDLE| JULY 13, 2015

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In many places where His Holiness the Dalai Lama travels he is now subject to protests by worshippers of Dorje Shugden, also known as Dolgyal, a “protector deity” that is considered by some to be one of the protectors of the Geluk school of Tibetan Buddhism.

On July 7th a meeting was held in California between representatives of the Dalai Lama and three members of the International Shugden Community. The meeting was called by the Office of the Dalai Lama out of concern “that many among the Shugden protestors may be poorly informed about the Shugden issue and His Holiness’s stand with regard to it.”

The Shugden protestors allege that His Holiness the Dalai Lama has banned “the practice of Dolgyal/Shugden.” Representatives of the His Holiness say that this is untrue and that “although His Holiness has for forty years advised against propitiating Shugden, he has always been consistently clear that, in the end, it is up to individuals to choose whether or not to follow his counsel.”

The report states that one of the principal reasons why His Holiness advises against this practice is because of the well-documented sectarianism associated with it: “In the past, Shugden practice, especially in Eastern Tibet, provoked widespread distrust between monasteries, prevented members of the Geluk school from receiving instructions belonging to the Nyingma tradition, and even led to desecration of religious images and scriptures. His Holiness considers this kind of divisiveness and disharmony to be deeply regrettable. As someone who actively promotes inter-religious harmony and understanding, he opposes discrimination against anyone on grounds of faith. His Holiness the Dalai Lama feels a moral responsibility to advise his followers against Shugden practice.”

Did anything come out from this meeting? Would anyone know?

[vajralight]

Well, we know from what the FDL's representative said that the False Dalai Lama feels humiliated and is embarassed by the demonstrations, which is a good thing.

The ISC representatives asked for recognition of the four points, and said that they can take the four points to the Dalai Lama, if he wants to change something maybe there could be a meeting in the middle.

After that the CTA published a very negative article on their website about Dorje Shugden etc so it seems the hand that was offered by the ISC was not accepted.

Vajra

[psylotripitaka]

The 4 points have been re-written since that meeting.

[vajralight]

http://internationalshugdencommunity.com/official-important-statement/

Response to the statement on the Dalai Lama's website

"Clarifying His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Stand on Dolgyal/Shugden"
12th July 2015

To: The Office of the Dalai Lama, Tamdin Gyalpo
From: International Shugden Community Representatives

Regarding the above statement the International Shugden Community find that it is full of misleading and deceptive information to cover the Dalai Lama's own faults.

Although recently three representatives of the International Shugden Community met with three representatives of the Dalai Lama and seemed to make some positive progress now the Dalai Lama is still giving false information publicly and it seems he is making this present problem worse.

The International Shugden community has nothing further to say. If the Dalai Lama offers to accept the below four points publicly then this problem will be solved. The four points are:

1. To allow anyone who wishes to practice Dorje Shugden the freedom to do so.
2. To stop completely the discrimination against Shugden practitioners.
3. To allow all Shugden monks and nuns who have been expelled to return to their monasteries and nunneries, and to receive the same material and spiritual rights as non-Shugden practitioners.
4. To write to Tibetan communities throughout the world telling them that they should apply practically the above three points.



Vajra

[vajralight]

The revised four points sound pretty reasonable to me...


"The ISC is asking the Dalai Lama to write to the Tibetan communities throughout the world informing them of the following four points:

1) That both individuals and communities should completely stop all discrimination against the practice of Shugden and its practitioners;

2) That they should maintain harmonious relationships with Shugden practitioners;

3) That they should never try to harm Shugden practitioners either directly or indirectly;

4) That they should solve this present problem by practically applying the above three points.

All the Dalai Lama needs to do is to send one single letter containing
the above four points to all Tibetan communities.

As a result of this all the present problems and disharmony will automatically be solved."

[DharmaSpace]

Thanks @Vajralight and @Chokyi Dorje, still more work to be done.

[kris]

Personally I am sad that the meet up between 2 parties didn't produce much positive results. It is not easy for both parties to sit down and talk to each other, and yet, representatives from HH Dalai Lama straight out denied the open discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners. All the evidence and proofs pointed that there are discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners, and there is nothing to deny about.

All we ever need, is a letter from HH Dalai Lama to stop the discrimination against Dorje Shugden practitioners. IS THAT SO DIFFICULT??

[vajrastorm]

It would appear that the discussion between representatives of the ISC and those of HH Dalai Lama didn't produce any significant result. In the first place, when the Dalai Lama/CTA stand against Shugden practioners  is so rigid and unyielding, how can expect any result?

See the words below:

"The report(from the CTA) states that one of the principal reasons why His Holiness advises against this practice is because of the well-documented sectarianism associated with it".It said that this sectarianism  "even led to desecration of religious images and scriptures. His Holiness considers this kind of divisiveness and disharmony to be deeply regrettable. As someone who actively promotes inter-religious harmony and understanding, he opposes discrimination against anyone on grounds of faith. His Holiness the Dalai Lama feels a moral responsibility to advise his followers against Shugden practice.”

"Sectarianism", "discrimination" "desecration of religious images", all these accusations hurled at the Shugden practitioners  seem to be without any basis, despite claims of their being well-documented. On the other hand, all the discrimination,persecution and violence against Shugden practitioners(which are backed by clear evidence from testimonies) contradicts the Dalai Lama's avowed stance of "actively promoting inter-religious harmony and opposing discrimination". 

[DharmaSpace]

If such is the case, then we need to keep applying the pressure on CTA and Dalai Lama.

The demonstrations must not stop, this website should publish more and more articles online to and submit them all over to keep it up, and the lamas in the monasteries must turn the wheel of dharma continuously and spread dorje shudgen to many more people.

I don't think the Dalai lama's camp needed to meet with ISC officials to listen to the demands of ISC. I think the Dalai Lama knows exactly what the demands of the ISC is, he may be doing it to let Dorje Shudgen people know, don't let up, what you are doing is correct keep on doing more of it?

[VeronicaSmith]

I hope something good came from this. I do not mean any disrespect to H.H the Dalai Lama but I do think that the Shugden ban is a terrible thing because of the discrimination because of it and how the people in tibet are being treated like criminals in their country and the world and the Dalai Lama says that nothing is happening and that there is a choice and there is no discrimination there. That is why the ban needs to be lifted. Also we need religious freedom because it is in our rights. I really hope something good came out of this meeting and that The Dalai Lama considers that there is more than he says and that even though that there has been conflicts, The Dorje Shugden lineage shouldn't exist if he was a demon. I just hope that this meeting is a strong push to the lifting of the ban. There is more than what the Dalai Lama says. The lineage is true, he is not a demon. Even if there is disagreement still, the ban and discrimination is not the right approach.

[fruven]

As long as the ban is still in place a large doubt continues to be on people's mind. If the ban is lifted there is no worry for people to do practice it. How can one be comfortable practicing if there is discrimination by those not practicing it? Unfortunately CTA hasn't declare themselves to be religious neutral as can been seen on their websites. More works need to be done to lift the ban.

[DharmaSpace]

It seems a lot more work still need to be done. CTA and the Dalai Lama are not budging from their original stance. One upside to this is that the Dalai Lama had never met any of ISC representatives ever before prior to this. So it is a new breakthrough. Let hope more meetings can arise between the Dalai Lama office and the ISC representatives. 

[yontenjamyang]

It seems a lot more work still need to be done. CTA and the Dalai Lama are not budging from their original stance. One upside to this is that the Dalai Lama had never met any of ISC representatives ever before prior to this. So it is a new breakthrough. Let hope more meetings can arise between the Dalai Lama office and the ISC representatives.

I agree that this is a breakthrough that should be leverage on. I do not expect an agreement within the first meeting but lets hope that the meetings and dialog continues until an agreement can be strike out. Buddhism and the needs this and I am sure the Dalai Lama understand this. As to the CTA, they should know that this is the only salvation they can get because their negotiations with China has effectively ended and China has already stated so.

[grandmapele]

This is only the beginning of the beginning. So much more to be done especially as the CTA/Dalai Lama are not being very receptive and flexible. But, a positive nonetheless. At this stage we can only pray and hope for more and better meetings.

The window has been opened for too long. The Tibetans have been refugees for too long and have not made a solid move to be integrated anywhere. China has been firm about their stand with regards to Tibet. Too complex and convoluted a history. How long and how much charity can the West support a people without a country and have not done very much to solve that problem? All this distraction with the Dorje Shugden issue is only a smoke screen for the poor Tibetans to channel their disgruntled minds. Let us pray for all Tibetans that they may have wisdom?1