Shugden and other schools of Buddhsim

[Contentment]

Hi I was wondering if someone could advise me. I feel a very strong link to Dorje Shugden. However I am interested in spending some time in other schools of Buddhism. I have a particular interested in Nyingma. Would this be detrimental to my practice or to any future practice I wish to undertake with Dorje Shugden?

[Alexis]

Contentment,


I did my kanso many many years with a practitionner of nyingma. This practitionner had many gurus in all lineages.

The main thing is that if you take a commitment to Dorje Shugden, it's very very real and potent. Also, you have to check what your nyingma lamas are going to say about it. If you start the practice and take a commitment to Dorje Shugden, then you cannot stop the practice just like that. Outside of Gelugpa tradition (and even inside nowadays), many people are going to slander your practice and try to convince you the stop it. What are you going to do about that?

If you are going to start a Dorje Shugden practice then you need to have a strong guru devotion with at leat one Gelug lama. Otherwise, you will not be able to take a proper commitment to Dorje Shugden, and it's going to be very difficult to keep it up when faced with criticism. Find a good lama first!

In any case, do a lot of Dorje Shugden practice, he's goint ot place you where you belong, wherever that is, whatever your path is.

[Alexis]

Sorry for the apelling mistakes, I did'nt have my coffee yet!

[Alexis]

Spelling mistakes, that is!

[Alexis]

Constentment,

The last section of myt post seems to contradict what I wrote in the beginning, no?

What I meant to say is:

"In any case, keep your faith in Dorje Shugden whether you have commitments to Him or not. If you make requests to Him, He will help you according to your needs and your path, whatever that is."

Also,

It's OK for beginners like us to be a little confused about traditions and mixing it up. But at a certain point, you need to have your two feet in the same boat, whichever one you choose. Otherwise, blessings and realisations will be painfully slow to acquire. Finally, if you start teaching Dharma, Dorje Shugden will not be happy if you mix Dzogchen with you Gelug Mahamudra practice and teach that path to others. That will not bring good fruits.

[Alexis]

Contentment, that is!

Sorry for the mistake!

It seems I am suffering from dyslexia!

No, in fact I have a cold, we've had a horrible early winter here in Canada. 150 cm of snow here just in the last month alone. We're completely burried.

[a friend]

Alexis,

 

Thank you for this display, it was fun.

But seriously, thank you for your kind and accurate answers about this matter.

[lightning]

Seriously, I don't advice you practise Dorje Shugden along with Nyima Practise. Besides, I was told that our Lineage master Je TsongKha pa has filtered on those teachings that cannot be used. Those "buried teausres" teachings from Nyima cannot be used at all and has no history of lineage passed down all the way from Lord Buddha Shakyamuni. Besides that, the view of emptiness isn't complete and in order to gain enlightment to Buddhahood, we must use the view of Lord Nagajurna and Lord Chandrakriti, as per advice from Lord Manjushri to Lord Tsong Kha Pa. I still advice that it is the best to choose Gelug teachings as the flawless teachings is still preserve here, as prohised, the pure teaching will still remain in Gelug for another 400 years. You can only choose either one of the traditions, not both at the same time. Besides, if you still insist on practsing Dorje Shugden with Nyima practise, I believe Lord Dorje Shugden won't be very happy, as many lamas has been forewarn or punished if still insist.

[Alexis]

Lightning,

We should be carefull with our speech. There are so many incredible stories of harmony between Gelug, Nyingma and other schools out there such as this one from Tomo Geshe Rimpoche's bio on this website:

'Tromo was changed completely by Domo Geshe Rinpoche’s presence. The Bönpos at Pemukang sent yearly New Year offerings to him at Dungkar Gonpa, as did the Nyingmapas from nearby Kyiruntsel, where a room was kept ready in the monastery for Domo Geshe Rinpoche. Eventually, Rinpoche instituted several practices that brought the people of Tromo together in greater harmony. One of these was a yearly joint reading of twelve collected works (sung bum) at Kampu Dzong in Upper Tromo by the different religious traditions. Another practice was a special Guru Rinpoche (Padma Sambhava) ritual. Dungkar Gonpa had acquired an especially holy Guru Rinpoche statue, said to have been blessed by Padma Sambhava himself. When the owner was on his way to India with the statue, it spoke when passing Dungkar Gonpa. “Take me to where that sound is coming from,” it said, as the long trumpets sounded from the monastery on the hill. The man did, and Geshe Rinpoche gave him what he needed. Not much later, it is said, Domo Geshe Rinpoche found a Guru “fulfillment of wishes” (thug drup) text near Dawa Trag, a rock not far from Dungkar Gonpa bearing a spontaneous manifestation (rang jön) of a moon. Shortly thereafter, someone came with many copies of the same text for sale. Geshe Rinpoche bought all of them and, once a year, the Dungkar Gonpa monks performed the ritual.'

Tomo Geshe Rimpoche is a very special and unique Gelug lama and neither the Bonpos nor the nyingmas of Tromo Valley had any problems with Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden helped in creating harmony in Tromo valley. It is true that we should not mix in the end. But in the beginning, one can and should investigate all four schools. I think this is what Contentment (got it right this time!) is trying to do and Dorje Shugden can help him find his path even even if it is in Nyingma.

Also, it is true that Dorje Shugden can sometimes punish high gelug lamas who abandon the teachings or mix their practice with other stuff. But this is because they are acting contrary to their previous commitments and mind generation and are in a position of influence over the teachings and beings. We ants should have no fear because we are not included in this category.

Also, since Dorje Shugden is a Buddha, he helps and protects all sentient beings. This has been said and written many times. That is, he will help and guide anyone requesting Him irrespective of race, religion, color of hair, sexual orientation, etc. Even if Christians, Muslims, Jews or believers of doomsday cult rely on Him, they will definitely receive benefits in this life and others. Remember, He is the futur last Buddha of this Aeon.

Finally, the remaining 400 years of Gelug culminate with the Shambala war. This 400 years can be extended by prayers and dedication. In the same manner as tsongkhapa's lifespan was increased thru special prayers.

[lightning]

Thanks alot for ur advice, I will try to be more tactfully in my speech Sorry if i was rude or harsh in anyway, but my intentions meant well and neither i have anything against any traditions. But the truth is that Gelug has the most complete and flawless teaching to the Buddhahood, because the most complete middle view of emptiness and wisdom by Lord Nagajurna and Lord Chandrakriti and also the consolidation and filterations of teachings by Lord Je Tsong Kha Pa. Lord Dorje Shugden is the special protector who is assigned to protect these flawless teachings left by Lord Tsong Kha Pa. While we are understudying Gelug tradition, it is seriously not adviceable to mix with other traditions. The best thing we can do is to seek our Gurus' advice and follow them with faith.

I must admit that if sincerely rely on Dorje Shugden regardless of race, religion or sex. He will come to our aid... But my concern to All is that be careful of mixing in tradition, as i have bad experience before. My instintict tells me that he may not be happy, if someone is already studying Gelug, would to suddenly mix with Nyimpma teachings. I am not sure If the other way round is alright.

BTW As predicted by Enlightened beings, it will happen and neither extenison nor reduction will happen as it is, cos there is no flaws in their predictions and unless we are better than them. We can make supplications to hope that the teaching will continue to flourish and in the end we will meet qualified spiritual guides every lives. We also can make supplications for our Gurus to live longer.

Once while I am travelling with my Guru and another Vajra Brother on a car. He asked our Guru if there are so many Chisrtian believers can we convert over the Chirstians and similarly there are so many believers in the Mahayana, we could convert them over? But our Guru spoke to him in to jest are you better than Lord Shakyamuni? As predicted by Him, sentinents beings are hard to tame during this degenerate age. My Brother was dumbfolded but understood. And although my Guru with untiring with endless efforts and compassion giving Dharma teachings and empowerments all over the world. As if liken a enlightened fisherman, casting his big and wide net of Dharma and only those fated ones who have fortunate will eventually meet Him and those without may not 

[Alexis]

Despite our best efforts, it seems we still managed to spook off Contentment.

Sorry man!

[Contentment]

Sorry I haven't been here to thank you personally for your responses. I moved in with my girlfriend this week so life has been busy.

I have made such speedy progress lately. My meditation experience has entered a new level. I am currently slowing my whole practice down. Things I used to run at I am now taking much more cautiously.

My view at the moment is that if my karmic link with Dorje Shugden is as strong as I feel then that part of my mind that connects with Shugden is aware of my motivation. If my motivation is pure and still somewhat naive I believe Dorje as an enlightened being will understand my possible ignorance and will correct me with compassion.

I have asked for Dorje's help on several occasions I have not been let down. The results have been resounding and I feel undeniable. I think it is the power of these experiences that make me so weary where anything with my Shugden practice is concerned. I fully understand this is not something to play with or pick up and drop fancifully. I appreciate the two sided responses I have received here.

Since returning from my retreat in Bodh Gaya every single person there and since coming home which I have talked to have said I need to start looking for a guru. Now complete strangers have said the same thing. I cannot ignore this advice so I shall step up my prayers for a spiritual guide. Thanks again for your advice.

[lightning]

   Glad that u have the aid of Lord Dorje Shugden and took the response positively. I have also experienced the power of His response at times too. Sincerely pray towards Dorje Shugden, so that you can meet a very qualified Vajra Guru. Believe that your sincere request would be answered swiftly.  It is though the help of the Dharmapala and other protectors who will lead us to the spiritual guides who have strong karmic link to us. I would still strongly reccomend you to study Gelug teachings. Hopefully, the rest of us may provide some info on who Contentment should look for.

[beggar]

Dear friends,
thank you very much for your contributions on this super important subject. Especially taken i am with Alexis' thoughtful explanations on the various levels of commitment and how Dharmapala can help us within each of these. I feel, especially for new and future friends, it is really essential to understand and gain faith first that in the enlightened mind there can be not even the concept of sectarianism or prejudice. From this viewpoint, any enlightened Dharma guardian's compassionate actions of protecting (against what would cause us and others harm) and nurturing (what benefits all) can be much more easily understood. I definitely believe that if Dharmapala's all-seeing wisdom eye perceives that someone has an auspicious deep connection with any of the other schools he will guide them there. By the way, don't think that only Gelukpas propitiate Dorje Shugden, or believe in fairy tales he and Guru Rinpoche are antagonistic etc. The biographies of Tromo Geshe Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang etc really say it all - how one can be totally devoted to one's own lineage, while being friends with and supportive of all others. May we emulate their holy example always!
What Alexis describes about looking here and there before committing is the same as with taking refuge and entering a Guru-disciple relationship. We can check as long as we want; once we have been so fortunate as to connect with an authentic teacher we are smart to focus on his direct advice which is what makes this relationship so precious, along with linking up with the blessing transmission of her or his entire lineage. The effect -the potential of attainments gained -is simply a million times stronger than if we keep following our deluded perceptions of greener grass everywhere except where we are. And if we do proceed on this path and promise to commit to it and serve it, we'll definitely get very fierce reprimands from our Lama if we get distracted, lose focus and flirt with  'easier' (until we commit...)paths who are all hallucinated by our self-grasping mind anyway. Because our Lama is jealous or out to punish us? Certainly not! Seeing our potential to benefit through our commitment and foreseeing the negative consequences of reverting to samsaric modes, losing focus etc, they will try with all their heart and might to protect us from... ourselves.
The teachings benefit beings according to their dispositions; it is not a matter of declaring that prasangika madhyamaka is the most sublime view, and commanding everyone to follow it. Great holders of this view have taught lesser views all their lives because these accorded with their students capability of understanding. By nurturing this, they prepared them to progress to a higher level eventually. Jowo Atisha was often called the 'refuge Lama'; he didn't mind at all... Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche was often called 'Lamrim Lama' by people who thought this was all he could teach... well, the joke's on them! Great Dzogchen and Mahamudra masters teach about karma and compassion all their lives, and never even mention these big words we like to throw around so casually. In times such as we live in, if we can be mindful of karma and unshakable in Guru devotion while aspiring to the highest, we blessed indeed.
Finally, if one feels strong devotion to Dorje Shugden without 'rational' explanation and without being with a teacher, this does seem a strong indication that one has an auspicious karmic connection with Manjushri Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, and it would be definitely worth praying for it to manifest outwardly. May you be blessed by meeting your Lama soon, Contentment, and may you see, hear and think of only a perfect Buddha when you do.
yours, beggar

[lightning]

As properciesd by Buddha Shakamuni, 400 years after He passed
away. A monk called Bikkshu Palden would come to a town named Bendra
in Southern India. He is known as Nagarjuna and would give perfect
explanation of correct view free from the extremes of existence and
non-existence. Nagarjuna woud cause the perfect doctrine to flourish
throughout the world. As predicted,in Six Collection of Reasonings,
Nagarjuna clearly explains the correct view of emptiness revealing
all the meaning of the topics set fourth in the twelve volumes of
the perfcion of Wisdom Sutra in 100,000 verses. Among these six
treatises it is mainly in the Fundamenal Wisdom of the Middle Way
that Nagarjuna explains all stages of the profound path using many
ways of reasonings . Later, Nagarjuna's disciple Chandrakriti
composed a commentary to this text entiled Guide to the Middle Way.
When Aisha was teaching in the Tibet, he gave this advice for
disciples of the future:

Chandrakriti is the disciple of Nagarjuna. There is Buddhahood
in this lineage. Apart from this lineage, there is no Buddhahood.

His meaning is that it is impossible to atain Englightenment by
following a view that contraidicts the system of Nagarjuna and
Chandrakriti.
By the time of Je TsongKhaPa, there were different
interpretation of many views of emptiness were taught in Tibet. Je
TsongKhaPa asked Manjushri, "Whose works should I rely upon to gain
a perfect understanding of Buddha's ultimate view?" Manjushri
replied that he should rely principally upon the works of the
glorious Chandrakriti. Chandrakriti, he said, was a high Bodhisattva
who came from pureland to teach the correct view of emptiness as
explained by Nagarjuna.
In the Guide to the Middle Way, Chandrakriti was that without
reailzing emptiness as explained by Nagarjuna, there is no way of
attaining liberation. If we hold a contridatory view, we do not have
the practice of the two truths and thus no way of attaining
liberation. Therefore if we have wisdom but forsake views of
Nagarjuna and Chandrkriti for another view, we are like someone who
walks off the high cliff with eyes wide open!