Yidam Dorje Shugden?

[psylotripitaka]

For all its thoughtful logic, the most important essential point made in the link below is that 'it would be necessary for a Lama to compose the sadhanas'.

Dorje Shugden is Dharmapala, and though we say he is the embodiment of the Guru, Yidam, and Protector, it means he is the nature of our Yidam, not that he can be relied on as a Yidam. It is inappropriate to conclude, for instance, that because we practice Vajrabhairava, we can transform ourself into Dorje Shugden. Until we see a Lama present an initiation and commentary to a generation and completion stage practice of this Dharmapala, we would experience profound benefit by concentrating on the actual Yidam practices we've been given. I've never heard of him as a Yidam except through people's curiosity and logic on this website. If you do hear of it, or make offerings and requests and your Lama composes such things, please do share. Until then, before this opportunity disappears, best get to it with the Yidams already provided.

[psylotripitaka]

The link

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/dharma-demystified-dorje-shugden-as-a-yidam/

[yontenjamyang]

For all its thoughtful logic, the most important essential point made in the link below is that 'it would be necessary for a Lama to compose the sadhanas'.

Dorje Shugden is Dharmapala, and though we say he is the embodiment of the Guru, Yidam, and Protector, it means he is the nature of our Yidam, not that he can be relied on as a Yidam. It is inappropriate to conclude, for instance, that because we practice Vajrabhairava, we can transform ourself into Dorje Shugden. Until we see a Lama present an initiation and commentary to a generation and completion stage practice of this Dharmapala, we would experience profound benefit by concentrating on the actual Yidam practices we've been given. I've never heard of him as a Yidam except through people's curiosity and logic on this website. If you do hear of it, or make offerings and requests and your Lama composes such things, please do share. Until then, before this opportunity disappears, best get to it with the Yidams already provided.

Thanks Chokyi Dorje. As you have rightly said, Dorje Shugden is "qualified" to be an Yidam and what remains is for a qualified Lama to compose the initiation text, sadhana and commentary on how to meditate on Dorje Shugden as a Yidam. 

I sincerely request my Lama to do this as it would benefit many beings of these degenerate times.

I also feel that this is the ultimate reason Dorje Shugden arose, to be an Yidam as this is the highest way beings can benefit from Him.

[psylotripitaka]

Yontenjamyang,

Well, I have to agree with someone's comment that follows the article in the link, that if Dorje Shugden was supposed to be relied on as a Yidam, certainly this would have been made clear by Je Pabongkha Rinpoche and Trijang Dorjechang through writing initiations, sadhanas, and instructions on the generation and completion stage of this deity.

Instead, the propagated him as the uncommon Protector of the Ganden Tradition in accordance with the very promise he made, and they have propagated various Yidams, particularly Heruka Chakrasamvara and Vajrayogini Tantras as particularly suitable for our time.

I want to respect and appreciate peoples spiritual inspirations, but I must say it sometimes seems like people are excessively obsessive about the Protector. Just rely on him for his specific function, and do your Yidam practice every day and night without delay.

[christine V]

Dear Chokyi Dorje

Thanks for sharing the thought.

If you look at the incarnation of Dorje Shugden. The line of incarnation is from very highly attain Lama. And it is believed that Dorje Shugden is the emanation of Manjushri. Thus, Dorje Shugden is actually an enlighten being in protector form now. The only thing we need is a prayers for Dorje Shugden. To Me, This doesn't mean that Dorje Shugden is no Yidam. Is just lack of the prayers for us to pray.  I don't think people are just obsessed with Dorje Shugden. The link that you have paste have clearly written the important for Dorje Shugden to become Yidam

1) Due to his efficacy, Dorje Shugden would be quicker to bestow attainments than many of the other Yidams if he was to be propitiated as a Yidam.

2) Dorje Shugden currently exists in a worldly form but with an enlightened mind, indicates that Dorje Shugden’s Nirmanakaya form exists within Samsara and has greater karma and affinity with the beings of this time. This is special as other Yidams are in the Sambhogakaya form. This means that it would take far more merits to contact and receive assistance from them than it is with Dorje Shugden.

3) Very beneficial for the growth of the Dharma because we live in a time of degeneration where attained practitioners and masters are very few and far in between and people have little time for Dharma.

[psylotripitaka]

Christine V,

Sure. Until then, practice the Yidams that the lineage Masters say are the most powerful for our time, especially Heruka Father & Mother. Je Pabongkhapa, Trijang Dojechang and other Masters have said and written prayers that at this time the tantras of Heruka and Vajrayogini are supreme, because as times become ever more impure and the number of lineage Gurus increases, the power and blessings of these Yidams rapidly increase.

[Matibhadra]

I sincerely request my Lama to do this as it would benefit many beings of these degenerate times.

It's just your ego trip. You just want to be known as the divinely inspired one thanks to whose requests Dorje Shugden “arose” as a Yidam.

Since you are only concerned with fame and reputation, you do not qualify even as a disciple of the Small Scope, let alone as a disciple of Highest Yoga Tantra.

[christine V]

Christine V,

Sure. Until then, practice the Yidams that the lineage Masters say are the most powerful for our time, especially Heruka Father & Mother. Je Pabongkhapa, Trijang Dojechang and other Masters have said and written prayers that at this time the tantras of Heruka and Vajrayogini are supreme, because as times become ever more impure and the number of lineage Gurus increases, the power and blessings of these Yidams rapidly increase.

Yes Chokyi, i agreed.
But, Since Dorje Shugden could be the Yidam. Why not?

[grandmapele]

Whether Dorje Shugden can be the Yidam or will be the Yidam is moot to many at this point. Many are not practiced to even receive any Yidam. All this debate here is pretty disconcerting to many but informative all the same. So, the only safe practice is Tsongkhapa practice which requires no initiation whatsoever and is deemed very effective. Personally, I find it interesting reading all these comments but will just stick to what my lama has given me. That is what our lama is there for, providing of course, that he is a genuine lama and we just follow him all the way.

[psylotripitaka]

Grandmapele,

I'm sorry you find it disconcerting. We're just having a discussion. People have said DS can be relied on as a Yidam and expressed interest in it, and I have merely pointed out that this is not a practice yet. That's all.

As for merely practicing Ganden Lhagyema, that is beautiful, but it is finally necessary to enter the path of Highest Yoga Tantra. Receiving initiation is a dependent-relationship, the disciple makes offerings and requests, then the Lama provides the means to either prepare for initiation or gives the initiation. This is how it has always been on in all the realms of samsara and pure Buddha realms.

[kris]

Thank you @Choyke for posting the link. I wouldn't have read the article if not for you. Thank you once again!

Therefore, if Dorje Shugden is propitiated as a Yidam, it would help many practitioners to quickly develop spiritual attainments. What remains now is for a sincere practitioner to make the request to a qualified lama – a request that will benefit the world once it comes to fruition.

I pray there are qualified lama who would compose the prayer which will benefit many.

[grandmapele]

_____________________________________________________________________________________
As for merely practicing Ganden Lhagyema, that is beautiful, but it is finally necessary to enter the path of Highest Yoga Tantra. Receiving initiation is a dependent-relationship, the disciple makes offerings and requests, then the Lama provides the means to either prepare for initiation or gives the initiation. This is how it has always been on in all the realms of samsara and pure Buddha realms.
______________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you Chokyi Dorje. Again you have shown me the way. Thank you. I gather from your reply that if one were to make the proper request for initiation, the Guru will then advise whether we are ready or not or what one should do to be ready. Merely plodding on and waiting is not the way to go. One must create the cause. Understand.

[psylotripitaka]

Dear Grandmapele, I'm glad it helped. Just to clarify, I wasn't implying that Ganden Lhagyema is a basic practice or low. It is very profound and there are many special ways to practice it such as

- the inclusion of Amitabha for training in 8 Verses of Training the Mind,

- from the point of view of highest yoga tantra with generation and completion stage

- uncommon self-initiation

- an abbreviated body mandala

- as a Migtsema ritual to accomplish 11 different actions as well as being a way to rely on Yamantaka in aspect of Je Tsongkhapa for various purposes and so forth

The meaning of previous comment was specifically saying that just doing Ganden Lhagyema alone without a HYT initiation is not the end, but thatveventually it is necessary to receive initiation into a Yidam of Highest Yoga Tantra, and as shown above makes Ganden Lhagyema that much more profound.

[yontenjamyang]

I sincerely request my Lama to do this as it would benefit many beings of these degenerate times.

It's just your ego trip. You just want to be known as the divinely inspired one thanks to whose requests Dorje Shugden “arose” as a Yidam.

Since you are only concerned with fame and reputation, you do not qualify even as a disciple of the Small Scope, let alone as a disciple of Highest Yoga Tantra.

Are you for real? LOL.

Thanks for being the object of my practice and still I sincerely request my Lama to compose the initiation text, sadhana and commentary on how to meditate on Dorje Shugden as a Yidam as it would benefit many beings of these degenerate times.

[Matibhadra]

Thanks for being the object of my practice

The actual object of one's practice should always be one's own mind and delusions. Your wish to make others the “object” of your practice just show your deep misunderstanding of Buddhism.

and still I sincerely request my Lama to compose the initiation text, sadhana and commentary on how to meditate on Dorje Shugden as a Yidam as it would benefit many beings of these degenerate times.

This is because you stubbornly want take others as your “object of practice”, instead of your own bloated, delusional sense of an ego.

Your lama as an answer to your request, rather than “sadhanas” and “tantric commentaries”, would probably teach you how to avoid the 8 worldly dharmas and how to enter a pure Buddhist path.