There is no such thing as worshipping Dorje Shugden secretly

[Ratna Shugden]

A #gelug #monastery has the following characteristics
1. The name &/or symbol of the monastery shows that she is of the Gelug tradition.
2. There lamas wear the robes & head dress of the gelug tradition.
3. The #thangka &/or statue(s) of #dorjeshugden &/or His retinue are being displayed & worshipped prominently.
4. Dorje Shugden's life entrustment initiation & kangso should be found in her monthly programs.

There is no such thing as worshipping Dorje Shugden secretly. You are either in, which means you openly declare that you worship Dorje Shugden & you endure pressure from the public due to the controversy like other #shugdenpas, or out.

Happy Je Tsongkhapa Day!

[psylotripitaka]

RS,

Your perspective is cocky narrow-minded nonsense, dismissive of the tough circumstances of others that clearly you're unable to relate to. There are many practitioners who propitiate Lord Shugden in secret for reasons that should already be known to you. If you are going to keep proclaiming this "you're either in or out" nonsense, I recommend you move to Ganden Shartse, "openly declare that you worship Dorje Shugden". If you're not going to do that, then be more sensitive to the suffering of others who's life depends on secrecy due to their situation.

[Ratna Shugden]

RS,

Your perspective is cocky narrow-minded nonsense, dismissive of the tough circumstances of others that clearly you're unable to relate to. There are many practitioners who propitiate Lord Shugden in secret for reasons that should already be known to you. If you are going to keep proclaiming this "you're either in or out" nonsense, I recommend you move to Ganden Shartse, "openly declare that you worship Dorje Shugden". If you're not going to do that, then be more sensitive to the suffering of others who's life depends on secrecy due to their situation.

Fellow Shugdenpa, you need to keep a safe physical distance from anti-Dorje Shugden Dharma practitioners. Being physically near them, & worshipping Dorje Shugden won't work.

(1)-(3) (Below) can be done on any #shugdenpa by anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners. No shugdenpa can worship Dorje Shugden in secret, anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners can spiritually know who are black sheeps. It is not that I don't need a peaceful resolution to the ban on the worship of #dorjeshugden, but it needs to done from a safe distance. Out of #bodhichitta, you can walk the talk of authentic Dharma among them by joining in their Dharma activities, & benefitting them with true bodhisattva deeds, to proof that Dorje Shugden is a virtuous supramundane spiritual sentient being; Shugdenpas are not evil Dharma practitioners. After assessing your Dharma life without parts relating to your worship of Dorje Shugden, if they like you, they will need you to give Him up. If you don't, your relationship & interaction with them will end or can't go further. This is my experience.
1. They can implant a wrong view on a point of the Dharma &/or a lie on a mundane information, usually coupled with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s),supernatural powers, that harms  the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. This is difficult to discover, as the effect protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.
2. They will give the target a 'gift' with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s), supernatural powers, that harms the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. They can do that object(s) on &/or with you when you are within the range of their siddhi(s). This object(s) conducts spiritual/magical surveillance on the target simultaneously. The same can happen to any #amulet that you can buy from a shop or a Dharma centre. This object(s) is difficult to discover, as it protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.
3. They can implant a spiritual sentient being(s) on the person, usually coupled with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s),supernatural powers, that harms  the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. This spiritual sentient being(s) conducts spiritual/magical surveillance on the target simultaneously. This is difficult to discover, as the spiritual sentient being(s) protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.

[psylotripitaka]

RS,

Your perspective is cocky narrow-minded nonsense, dismissive of the tough circumstances of others that clearly you're unable to relate to. There are many practitioners who propitiate Lord Shugden in secret for reasons that should already be known to you. If you are going to keep proclaiming this "you're either in or out" nonsense, I recommend you move to Ganden Shartse, "openly declare that you worship Dorje Shugden". If you're not going to do that, then be more sensitive to the suffering of others who's life depends on secrecy due to their situation.

Fellow Shugdenpa, you need to keep a safe physical distance from anti-Dorje Shugden Dharma practitioners. Being physically near them, & worshipping Dorje Shugden won't work.

(1)-(3) (Below) can be done on any #shugdenpa by anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners. No shugdenpa can worship Dorje Shugden in secret, anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners can spiritually know who are black sheeps. It is not that I don't need a peaceful resolution to the ban on the worship of #dorjeshugden, but it needs to done from a safe distance. Out of #bodhichitta, you can walk the talk of authentic Dharma among them by joining in their Dharma activities, & benefitting them with true bodhisattva deeds, to proof that Dorje Shugden is a virtuous supramundane spiritual sentient being; Shugdenpas are not evil Dharma practitioners. After assessing your Dharma life without parts relating to your worship of Dorje Shugden, if they like you, they will need you to give Him up. If you don't, your relationship & interaction with them will end or can't go further. This is my experience.
1. They can implant a wrong view on a point of the Dharma &/or a lie on a mundane information, usually coupled with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s),supernatural powers, that harms  the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. This is difficult to discover, as the effect protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.
2. They will give the target a 'gift' with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s), supernatural powers, that harms the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. They can do that object(s) on &/or with you when you are within the range of their siddhi(s). This object(s) conducts spiritual/magical surveillance on the target simultaneously. The same can happen to any #amulet that you can buy from a shop or a Dharma centre. This object(s) is difficult to discover, as it protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.
3. They can implant a spiritual sentient being(s) on the person, usually coupled with a supernatural effect from that comes from their siddhi(s),supernatural powers, that harms  the target's mundane &/or Dharma progress. This spiritual sentient being(s) conducts spiritual/magical surveillance on the target simultaneously. This is difficult to discover, as the spiritual sentient being(s) protects itself. The target will need to endure suffering(s) to discover it, while removing it & after removing it.

RS, interesting, but not unknown. Perhaps you could share with us how you know these things.

As for the title of this thread, it is incorrect. I know people who practice in secret. Their love and other practices are too great to be harmed or discovered by black magic.

[Ratna Shugden]

I tried to play ball with anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners at first. Out of #bodhichitta, I had been walking the talk of authentic Dharma among them by joining in their Dharma activities, & benefitting them with true bodhisattva deeds, with Four-faced Mahakala as my Dharma protector, as He was the Dharma protector of Trülku Drakpa Gyeltsen( To keep in touch with Dorje Shugden indirectly) & He is common among other sect. I refrained from any mention of Dorje Shugden & kept all images of Him out of their sight, while I'm in their presence. I did not create any opening for them to discuss about Dorje Shugden with me. Despite all these precautions, they still they know that I'm a shugdenpas spiritually. (1)-(3) still happened(Refer to my previous post). I discovered them after I had perceived difficulties to be in communion with Dorje Shugden. I spent much time, effort & resources on mundane & Dharma practices to countact them. I had to return to them all objects from them. I had to throw away some of them immediately upon discovery, given the urgency of the matter. I stopped all interactions with them. I avoid entering their centres. After doing all these, my communion with Dorje Shugden went back to being as good as before.

Dorje Shugden has a distinctive form of energy, which rubs off on shugdenpas. The extent of this differs among shugdenpas. Just like some people can't sleep at night after drinking coffee during lunch time, whereas some people can't sleep without having one first.

Have you ever had the following experiences?
1. After passing through a crowd of smokers, people commented that you reek of cigarettes?
2. Your Dharma brother(s) &/or sister(s) commented that they are conscious of the energy &/or presence of an Yidam, when they are around you?

One look or recollection of Dorje Shugden's thangka or statue, one positive thought of Him, one recitation of His mantra/prayer/sadhana, will make you stick out like a sore thumb among anti-#dorjeshugden Dharma practitioners. It's also like a lemon on a green grass patch.

Which is why I will say that there is no point in hidding the fact that we are shugdenpas.

[psylotripitaka]

RS,

Thank you for sharing your personal experience, but as I see it, your main point, having explained the issues, should merely be to make Shugdenpas aware of these potential circumstances and to be careful. Your valuable information should not result in the broad-stroke conclusion that there's no such thing as relying in secret, which I have already refuted by telling you I know people who do so.

What you discovered in your experience could be the result of magic attack, or the Protector telling you personally to distance yourself from people with broken samaya, wrong views, wrong intentions, and wrong activities, all of which may have been rubbing off on you, like cigarette smoke!

I understand some of the subtleties you speak of, but it is also the experience of myself and others that secret devotion can be kept secret AND protected by doing various things with concentration. Beyond not giving any doorway for others to recognize it (as you did), you can close the subtle doorways with weekly Kangso, Trakze retreat, Migtsema recitations and armor, recitation and meditation on the Vajrabhairava command wheel activities and his mantras, Yidam armor mantras, and very powerful experience of love, compassion, and wisdom realizing the two truths. If we can't do this, it is very possible, as you've explained, that you will be affected through close association with negative energy. Keeping a good heart is great, but we also need to become aware of subtle influences an know if we're being adversely effected.

There is a such thing as relying on Dorje Shugden secretly, but not everyone can do it amongst anti-Shugden people without consequence.

[yontenjamyang]

I support the view that there are many who practice the Protector Dorje Shugden secretly. Why? Because there is a ban and I respect that those who practice it secretly can still operate a "normal" but in their heart and in secret practice what their Gurus have given them. And I think there is morally nothing wrong.  In fact it is wise. That is not say those who openly practice is not wise. We certainly need those who practice it openly as the are the ones who keep the monastery opened.

[prodorjeshugden]

Some people are actually forced to practice Dorje Shugden in secret. If the CTA finds out that these people are practicing Dorje Shugden they are quite likely to get mistreated and face prosecution. Also most people don't have a choice and some fear that if they give up their practice they may face bad karma. Some just practice because they know that it is right. 

To  those who are practicing Dorje Shugden in secret i wish you well and i hope that you will excel in Dorje Shugdens practices.
I really hope that the CTA and the Dalai Lama will end the ban soon and stop all suffering.

[SabS]

Hmm, this topic by Ratna Shugden is surprising. At first I was wondering what was it about but further down, the explanation was given. I am surprised that the Anti-Shugdenpas would go to that extent to seek out Shugden practitioners. However more surprising is that Ratna Shugden was affected. I must apologise for my ignorance but wouldn't that mean that RS had the karma to be affected? Or that RS's practise is still at the level that he can be affected?. At my level (new), I think it's Dorje Shugden wishing RS to realise that we should not risk ourselves with negativities even if we do it out of wishing to help, unless we are attained and have a rock solid stable mind. RS could have stood out due a natural guilty conscious of knowing he/she shouldn't be there within the Anti-Shugdenpas in the first place. 

[James Bond]

If you ask me, i agree with this post completely. Its either you're open about worshiping Dorje Shugden, or you shouldn't at all. Its as simple as that.

I think this should be how practicing Dorje Shugden should be. I know there will always be groups or even individuals who will practice Dorje Shugden secretly. But imagine the kind of publicity that would arise if every Dorje Shugden practitioner came out about their practices. The support against the ban would increase drastically. Its about time people realised this and started to make a stand.

[pgdharma]

Many Dorje Shugden practitioners will never give up their practice thus they have no choice but to practice in secret as they feared that they may be discriminated and/or abused by the CTA and anti-Shugden group.

However, I think that for those who are practicing in secret, they should now come out openly.  I agree with James Bond that the impact to support the ban would increase drastically if the practitioners come out of their practice.