Shugden High Lama Stupas in Ganden Shartse -

[christine V]

Is this logic?

    1) How can Ganden Shartse Monastery evict and expel monks who practice Dorje Shugden yet keep the stupas of these great Dorje Shugden lamas?

  2) How can Ganden Shartse Monastery declare that their monks cannot associate with the monks of Shar Ganden on the basis that Shugden practitioners are outcasts of society yet venerate the stupas of these great Dorje Shugden lamas?

    3) How can Ganden Shartse Monastery claim that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was wrong about the nature of Dorje Shugden yet still venerate him as a lineage lama of the lamrim and many other teachings?

   4) How can Ganden Shartse Monastery claim that Kyabje Zong Rinpoche was a demon worshipper yet welcome his reincarnation as long as he does not practice Dorje Shugden?

If Ganden Shartse Monastery really wanted to toe the line that the Dalai Lama has drawn, surely they should demolish and destroy the stupas and relics of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche for fear of being labeled as associating with Dorje Shugden lamas or much worse, venerating Dorje Shugden lamas?

The very fact that the stupas are still standing within the confines of Ganden Shartse Monastery shows that the implementation of the ban is selective and ultimately baseless. Perhaps, the continued existence of these stupas lend a glimmer of hope that the ban is just temporary and that reconciliation is possible in the near future.

Link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/shugden-high-lama-stupas-in-ganden-shartse/

[psylotripitaka]

Christine,

...because the DL and those supporting his non-Buddhist law have supplanted the qualities of logic, common sense, and loving kindness with views and actions deeply rooted in the 8 worldly concerns.

[Jason Statham]

I totally agree with what Christine has said. If Dorje Shuden is really a demon, monks would have thrown away all the texts written by His previous lives. Instead, until this very day they still use them. Shouldn't everything that is related to Dorje Shugden must be thrown away since He is a demon? Why, is it because Dorje Shugden is actually not a demon after all?

And what about the highly attained Masters who practice Dorje Shugden? Shouldn't they be kicked out of everything and being banned from going to monasteries since they are demon worshippers? Yet, there are monks who still want to invite them to their monasteries. Funny isn't it? Or could it be that Dorje Shugden is actually an enlightened Buddha? Most of the practitioners that live in the exile are just afraid to show it because they are scared that the CTA will harm them?

[James Bond]

I agree 100% with what Christine has said about the current situations regarding Dorje Shugden. It doesn't make sense to me how the Ganden Shartse Monastery can kick out the monk who have practised Dorje Shugden yet still keep the stupas of those great masters who did the same thing. If the Monastery really did want to get rid of any DS interference in their Monastery why would they keep the stupas of former DS practitioners? Really seems illogical how conditional they can be.

Also another thing i do not get is that they accept Kyabje Zong Rinpoche reincarnation after claiming he was a demon worshipper as long as he does not practice Dorje Shugden. If Zong Rinpoches previous incarnation practised Dorje Shugden, what makes them think that his current incarnation would not do the same? I feel like they don't really care anymore, but they just want others to know that they are still against DS. Hmm.

[angelica]

Trijang Rinpoche was considered an emanation of Vajra Yogini and Zong Rinpoche  was known as an emanation of the Buddha Heruka Chakrasamvara.

1. Can the 2 masters be wrong about Dorje Shugden (DS)?
2. if the previous life of Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche practice DS, can someone worshiping a spirit be reincarnated as high lama in this life time?
3. If banned the practice of Dorje Shugden, everything related to this spirit should be thrown away. Why still keep stupa of Dorje Shugden Lama? Isn't it a bit confusing and contradicting?
4. If Dorje Shugden is a dangerous spirit, Dalai Lama should subdue it, why just ban it?

Everything about the ban is not logic. The ban is more harmful and dangerous than what was claimed about Dorje Shugden as a spirit that can harm Dalai Lama. The ban has caused enough suffering for the DS practitioners, the ban need to be lifted.

[Dondrup Shugden]

In totality the Dorje Shugden is illogical and totally out of sync of any Buddhist Dharma.  It seems like sheer hypocrisy and wrong accusations against Shugden devotees.

Illustrations as highlighted by Christine V in keeping the stupas of HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Zong Rinpoche in Ganden Shartse Monastery and yet expelling practising lamas are totally illogical.

Even without evidence CTA and the likes accuse Dorje Shugden Lamas as agents of the Chinese Government and being sponsored financially by the Chinese Government to go against the Tibetan cause.

Until the Ban is lifted, more and more will be done against Shugden Lamas and devotees and will definitely not be good for the Tibetan people in exile as more and more suffering is caused.

[grandmapele]

This is the result of a dictatorship. And, when the government keep truth and real news from the people, and when you have people who are unclear on the principle rooting for the people in power, you get ideas and policies and bans that make no sense. That's because they are clueless themselves.

[kris]

Buddhism is backed by logic, that's why I like Buddhism. However, when it comes to Dorje Shugden, suddenly all logic is being defied. Buddhism talks about compassion, but suddenly Dorje Shugden practitioners do not deserve compassion.

@christine, you can throw away the logic when it comes to Dorje Shugden.

[grandmapele]

kris, that's what happens when secularly, the powers that be keep the community ignorant for their own benefit. That is not real Buddhism, that is political. Sad thing is that for the Tibetans in exile, the line between politics and religion has been conveniently erased by the CTA resulting in a whole confused bunch of exiles. That is why the Buddha emphasized on Compassion AND Wisdom. Compassion without Wisdom is foolishness and Wisdom without Compassion is only intellectual and cold. Therefore, to be enlightened, one has to have both Compassion and Wisdom, the 2 wings leading to enlightenment. One cannot fly with just 1 wing.

[Joo Won]

It's truly not logic. If Dorje Shugden is really a spirit, then why venerate a high lama's stupa that practice and rely on the "spirit" his whole life, like Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche?

Why even the current Trijang Rinpoche is give special permission by HH Dalai Lama to practice Dorje Shugden? Is the Dalai Lama is too compassion to his tutor, so he has some privilege? Or how could you let your tutor to practice a "spirit"'s practice, which may bring harm to him?

Is not logic as well. Too many illogical things in carry out the ban..we should think deeper about this...

[grandmapele]

christine V, I agree with you. The ban is selective and the discrimination is selective. But it does not make the ban any less real. at the core of it, I think it is very political and is being misused by the CTA.

[Q]

Christine, it is very simple, because the ban on Dorje Shugden itself is illogical to begin with, so all the actions that follows it will be illogical.

Take for example the very basic thing, which is your question number 4. If Zong Rinpoche was a demon worshipper in his previous life, then why is there even a yangsi??? The very fact that they recognize Zong Rinpoche's incarnation is proof that they DO NOT BELIEVE that Dorje Shugden is a demon or evil, but have no choice but to follow the CTA's rules. That's why it's ok to accept Zong Rinpoche's incarnation as long as he doesnt practice DS, which means, as long as he doesn't give trouble to the monastery. If he did, then they would have cast him out like how they did with Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche.

These are really a bunch of ungrateful people. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche have given so many of these lamas supreme knowledge. I guess for these people, Dharma is cheap and politically correctness is more important. The comforts of this life is much more important that samaya. Too bad for them i guess.

[pgdharma]

Totally agree with you, Christine V.  It is illogical. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit and Gaden Shartse Monastery claimed that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and Kyabje Zong Rinpoche are demon worshippers then they should demolish the stupas long time ago? If these high lamas are demon worshippers, how can they reincarnate back as high lamas. Illogical! And why is it that their reincarnations are recognized? Everything about the ban is illogical and has caused so much harm and sufferings for DS practitioners!

[Tenzin Malgyur]

Christine V, the ban on Dorje Shugden practice is totally illogical and unlawful. It is obvious the CTA is being a dictator in imposing this ban and all monasteries under its rule are powerless to challenge this decision for fear of losing the much needed financial backing and support.

Sure, they are being selective in expelling monks who does not give up their Dorje Shugden practice while at the same time, they are welcoming the reincarnation of masters who practiced the banned deity and maintaining the stupas of Dorje Shugden practitioners who have passed on.

It is also interesting to note that the monks are qualifying for their much coveted Geshe degrees by studying mainly on texts and scriptures written by Lama Panchen Sonam Drakpa, one of the previous incarnation of Dorje Shugden.

[dharmacrazy79]

This is are very powerful points made. In fact, it reveals the hypocrisy and lack of integrity that is apparent in the Tibetan leadership, CTA. In this similar fashion, FPMT disparage their founder and Guru, Lama Yeshe when they discarded Dorje Shugden in whom Lama Yeshe placed great faith. If FPMT leaders and members can throw out Dorje Shugden claiming that he is an evil and harmful spirit, why dont the also remove the images of Lama Yeshe? Why don't they stop using the goodwill established by Lama Yeshe?

Why use and discard according to convenience and material benefits?

These are a few links about Lama Yeshe that is really powerful, eye opening etc.
Please take a read and enjoy the learning about the greatness of our lineage lamas and the witness the miracles of our Dharma Protector!

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-lineage-masters-are-believers-of-dorje-shugden/
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/lama-yeshes-cremation/
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/who-made-lama-zopa-a-rinpoche/
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/where-is-lama-yeshe/