To deny Dorje Shugden practice, is to deny Gelug-pa lineage

[DS Star]

Video link:

The Dalai Lama says his Gurus are WRONG
https://youtu.be/WdyIJwVaqZ8

In the above video, HH the 14th Dalai Lama openly announced to the world that his tutors, lineage gurus, i.e. HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Ling Rinpoche and other the erudite Gelug-pa masters like HH Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche are all wrong.

The point is, if the Gurus and Buddhist masters are wrong on the Dorje Shugden practice, all their other teachings are wrong as well. So, the Gelug-pa lineage is not authentic anymore because all the teachers are wrong.

And, this means all teachings HH the 14th Dalai Lama received from these masters are wrong !

What HH the 14th Dalai Lama is saying here is that he himself is wrong because his Gurus are wrong. This is only logical. How can he be right when all the teachings, initiations and empowerments he received are wrong?

When he "found" his gurus are at fault, HH the Dalai Lama had broken his samaya with his gurus. He had broke his Guru-Disciple relationship. A breach of Guru Devotion as clearly stated below:

As stated in the FIFTY STANZAS OF GURU DEVOTION by Aryasura written in the first century B.C. (with an oral commentary by Geshe Ngawang Dhargey )

Stanza 15: Therefore exert yourself whole-heartedly never to belittle your Tantric Master who makes no display of his great wisdom and virtues.

Part of the commentary of this stanza:

Thus there are great dangers in entering a Guru-disciple relationship. Your Tantric Master may be the one who has given you empowerments, a tantric discourse or even instruction on mandala drawing. As he has no pretension and is never boastful, he will always hide his good qualities and never hesitate to admit shortcomings. If you do not recognize such traits as indications of his perfection, humility and skillful means, you may make the serious mistake of belittling or seeing faults in him.

Having established a formal bond with this Guru and through him entered a pathway to Buddhahood, you have then cast yourself into terrible suffering if from the depth of your heart you break this link .

Therefore you must have great awareness, for although Guru devotion will elevate you to Full Enlightenment, a breach of it will be your downfall.

This is definitely the case, a breach of Guru Devotion.

If the Dalai Lama really thinks his gurus are wrong, then he will have no attainment.

However, we do not know if this is only a divine play staged by HH the Dalai Lama for the sake of preserving the Dharma for future generations.

If he is a Bodhisattva, Cherensig, then this whole debacle and the ban on DS is definitely just a drama... a very heart-wrenching one full of sacrifices...

[Rowntree]

 

When the Dalai Lama chose to say that the Guru is wrong, he is really saying that all teachers can be wrong, including his own teachers from the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Since the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism have teachers that teach wrongly, the lineage and the purity of the teachings are no longer in existence, because the lineage would have been broken long ago starting from the very first person who taught the teaching since Buddha Shakyamuni's time. Meaning, no one has any form of achievements because the teachings transmitted ARE WRONG. There's should be no Tibetan Buddhism also.

[SabS]

I like the answer given by Rowntree. If one's Guru is wrong then all Gurus could be wrong which means no attainments can be achieved. And yet, we have so many incarnated enlightened Gurus time and again through the many lifetimes. Even the Dalai Lama's own Guru, HH Trijang Rinpoche had reincarnated as proof of his attainments for all to see. Isn't Dalai Lama's statements questionable?

We need also ask why is the Dalai Lama giving teachings and initiation/empowerments of high tantric yogas like Cittamani Tara to his followers knowing it does not have the blessings of the lineage Gurus. He has effectively eliminated HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Ling Rinpoche as lineage Gurus as they practised Dorje Shugden the "Spirit". Going up the tree, HH Pabongka Rinpoche and HH Tagpu Pemavajra (who astral travelled to Tushita to receive the whole practise of Dorje Shugden directly from Duldzin Drakpa Gyaltsen, Shugden previous incarnation) would be eliminated too. Cittamani Tara practise came from the line of HH Tagpu Pemavajra, so how could he be right on this and not on Dorje Shugden? Such contradiction.

Divine play? Well I just hope the Dalai Lama swiftly manifest his true nature and stop the ban to stop all the associated terrible sufferings and negative karma created. OM BENZA WIKI BITANA SOHA. May the true enlightened minds prevail.

[grandmapele]

Oh, Rowntree, those were my thoughts exactly. How can Tibetan Buddhism continue if the teachers or any teacher is wrong?

Dorje Shugden was first propitiated by the Sakyas before being propitiated by the Gelugs. So that means 2 schools are defunct?

As the Dalai Lama's teachers are wrong in their teachings, it will mean that the Dalai Lama's teachings are flawed too. The source is not pure, it is contaminated, therefore even by temporal inference, the results are impure. So whatever teachings the Dalai Lama gives is wrong too. What a big can of worms!


As DS Star pointed out, the Dalai Lama according to Stanza 15 of the 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion by Aryashura,he has broken samaya with this Gurus. Even the Buddha had to go to hell as stated in the Lamrim as in one lifetime as a captain of a ship of merchants, to save the innocent merchants, he had killed the robber who intended to murder all the merchants to obtain their wealth. Though the captain had acted out of pure motivation, he still had to go to hell.

So, what can I say here in the case of the Dalai Lama?

[pgdharma]

The Dalai Lama says his roots Gurus and other great masters who have practiced Dorje Shugden for the past 400 years are wrong. How can great teachers like H.H. Trijang Rinpoche or H.H. Ling Rinpoche are all wrong and he his right? The relationship between the Dalai Lama and his two Gurus was very close and spanned over 30 years and both these tutors were very close students of Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche and received a great number of lineages, teachings and transmissions from him, including the practice of Dorje Shugden. Yet, the Dalai Lama dishonors the kindness of his tutors and the lineage masters and said that they are wrong.

It is not logical and unthinkable as that means the Dalai Lama has received wrong teachings and he has no attainments after all. By saying that his own Gurus are wrong he has also broken his samaya with his Gurus. So if the Dalai Lama has no attainments and has broken his samaya with his Gurus, shouldn’t he stop giving teachings and empowerment to his followers? If the teachings that he received from his Gurus are wrong, he shouldn’t impart those teachings to his followers.

If this is a divine play, I hope that the play will end soon. May the ban be lifted soon.