Author Topic: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?  (Read 9807 times)

godi

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Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« on: January 18, 2010, 10:09:46 PM »
Hi,
if the description to the painting  in this link is correct, it would mean that Dorje Shugden was also present in the Sakya tradition?

http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/393.html

Regards
Godi




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emptymountains

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 12:02:08 PM »
"You betcha" is slang for "You can bet on it."

Mohani

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 12:23:05 PM »
or 'yes, that is true'

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 03:50:25 PM »

Definitely Dorje Shugden's practice was adopted by the Sakyas first. Chapels were built for Him and the Throne holders of Sakyas composed prayers to him. He was promoted within the sakya.

Even today there's many Sakyapas who worship Him in Tibet today.

http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=935

Beautiful Sakyapa prayer to Dorje Shugden:


http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=349



composed by the great Sakyapa master
Kunkhyen Ngawang Kunga Lodroe

(an excerpt from the Dorje Shugden prayer called
duelzin choe ki gyalpo choepai choka phuentsog doe gu yong khil she jawa) 


At the early time, entering into the teaching of the Tathagata,
you rose in the form of Vinaya-holding Bhikshu,
thus you protect all the teachings of the Sravaka-Pitaka without exception, I prostrate to you.

In the middle, in front of many Buddhas and Bodhisattvas,
having generated the aspiring and entering Bodhicitta,
you obtained the prophecy as a protector of the teaching of the Dharma,
thus you protect all the teachings of the Bodhisattvas without exception, to you I prostrate.

In the great mandala of the ocean of Tantras,
initiated by Vajradhara, and receiving the samayas,
thus you protect all the teachings of the profound Tantra without exception, to you I prostrate.

In particular in this northern land, surrounded by a range of snow mountains,
though not directly pervaded by the sun of the Buddha, yet sustained by his compassion,
you are the protector of all those perfect schools of Dharma, I prostrate to you.

All the great holders of the teaching, who comment according to one’s own views,
the entire Tripitakas, the Tantras and their commentaries,
you are the very protector of all the holders of the Dharma,
acting as the fulfiller of the words of those leaders, I prostrate to you.

The legacy of the pandits, translators, dharma kings and ministers,
all the temples constructed by them,
you are the protector of all those seats of the Sangha without exception, I prostrate to you.

For entire Tibet, included in upper region Ngari, central region Ue-tsang, and lower region Dokham,
you act as the very protector, refuge, supporter, and friend of all people without exception,
thus you are the very god of the snow-land country, I prostrate to you.

The great protector of all the Buddhas of this fortunate aeon,
who is the eliminator of all the forces of unsuitable Mara,
some day through showing full enlightenment as Samyaksambuddha,
you will fulfil the deed of a Tathagata, to you I prostrate.

In short, in all three times, uninterruptedly,
with your infinite secrets of body speech and mind,
all those beings who are wandering in the ocean of the cycle,
you give them the perfect state of liberation, to you I prostrate.

Thus by the power of venerating you with this ocean of melodious praise,
through generating delight, compassion, and benevolent force of your mind,
please fulfil the activity for increasing of virtues, pacifying of disfavourable interferences,
and accomplishment of all the purposes in accordance to Dharma.

 

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« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 11:37:12 PM by tk »

emptymountains

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 10:50:07 PM »
Quote
Trust me on this one: it's not slang, it's survival!

Jeepers!

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2010, 01:21:42 AM »
"jeepers!" is not in my English dictionary  :o

harrynephew

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 04:31:44 PM »
the great King was accepted in the monastery of Sakya where he first appeared to the Sakya Lama on a horse. He Safeguarded the teachings and a chapel was built within the temple grounds in his honour.

Sakyas are very respectful of the Dharmapala. There was once a temple keeper who took Kalu Rinpoche for a tour. When they reached the chapel of the great Dharmapala, the temple keeper took off his shoes and paid humble respects and obeisance to the Protector. It shows the status and level of respect the Sakyas have for Dorje Shugden as one with the THREE JEWELS of refuge.
Harry Nephew

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Big Uncle

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2010, 03:18:51 AM »
Oh my god!!!! :o
Thanks for the link! Did you guys see Dorje Shugden zoomed in? He is not sitting upon a horse or snowlion. He is placed upon a lion throne! That iconographically means that he is considered a Buddha! Am I right? Also he is unusually holding a obstacle-binding noose in his left hand and cudgel in his right instead of a heart of compassion as in our tradition. However, the peaceful and increase emanations are both riding upon a horse. How unusual! In the description, it says Dorje Shugden is merely a minor protector. How can this be when he is enthroned upon a lion throne and he has Namtose/Vaishravana (an enlightened protector) on the bottom. The placement of the deities and iconography doesn't match the description!

On top of what you guys mentioned, Sakyas have a predilection towards Dorje Shugden because Dorje Shugden in one of his previous life was the great Sakya Pandita. Hence, they were the first to enthrone him as a Dharma Protector. How sad that they have abandoned the practice.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 04:26:33 AM »
Oh my god!!!! :o
Thanks for the link! Did you guys see Dorje Shugden zoomed in? He is not sitting upon a horse or snowlion. He is placed upon a lion throne! That iconographically means that he is considered a Buddha! Am I right? Also he is unusually holding a obstacle-binding noose in his left hand and cudgel in his right instead of a heart of compassion as in our tradition. However, the peaceful and increase emanations are both riding upon a horse. How unusual! In the description, it says Dorje Shugden is merely a minor protector. How can this be when he is enthroned upon a lion throne and he has Namtose/Vaishravana (an enlightened protector) on the bottom. The placement of the deities and iconography doesn't match the description!

On top of what you guys mentioned, Sakyas have a predilection towards Dorje Shugden because Dorje Shugden in one of his previous life was the great Sakya Pandita. Hence, they were the first to enthrone him as a Dharma Protector. How sad that they have abandoned the practice.

Big Uncle,

Yes it is a beautiful thangka. Re Dorje Shugden holding a cudgel and noose, and the peaceful and increase emanations both on horses - is it because there are some other meanings here or is it just iconographically wrong, which i hear does happen in religious artwork. Can you or anyone else also please share some info on why the Sakyas abandoned the practice and when?

Thank you,

Kate
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Midakpa

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 02:02:07 PM »
I bow down to the holy lamas.

I'm sure the Sakyas have very good reasons for "abandoning" the practice.

Let's not forget the bigger picture...

Big Uncle

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 09:45:37 PM »
It's an elephant for the peaceful emanation if you zoom in and look closer.The minor differences in iconography concur with the earlier texts.  It's not iconographically wrong, surely they knew what they were doing when they painted it. 

The Sakyas still had Shugden in their kangso printed in 1974, so, as far as I know they gave it up due to pressure from the Dalai Lama.  It's either that or having a mob unleashed to your monastery throwing stones, sorry that is the truth.

Oh yeah! You are right. It is an elephant. Thanks for pointing that out. It initially look like a horse to me.

thor

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 06:34:40 PM »
Quote
The Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden Tsel definitively is Avalokiteshvara. The Nyingma Tantra Rinchen Nadun says “The one known as Dolgyal is not mistaken on the path to liberation, he is by nature the Great Compassionate One,” which establishes this by scripture.


Not only close links between Dorje Shugden and the Sakyapas, but perhaps even the Nyingmas?

A list of the supreme heads of the Sakya Lineage who can be shown to have viewed Dorje Shugden as an enlightened being:

    * 30th Sakya Throneholder Sonam Rinchen (1705-1741)
    * 31st Throneholder Sachen Kunga Lodro (1729-1783)
    * 33rd Throneholder Padma Dudul Wangchug (1792-1853)
    * 35th Throneholder Tashi Rinchen (1824-1865)
    * 37th Throneholder Kunga Nyingpo (1850-1899)
    * 39th Throneholder Dragshul Thinley Rinchen (1871-1936)

The Sakyas belief in Dorje Shugden stretches over a span of more than 200 years. And these are the Sakya throne holders themselves.

More readings:
http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/a-sakya-tale/
http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/a-sakya-tale-part-two-grandpa-shugden/
http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/a-sakya-tale-part-three-dorje-shugden-the-great-compassionate-one/

kris

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 03:01:43 PM »
Yes, I have seen a frame picture of this form of Dorje Shugden in Trijang Ladrang in Gaden. The monk told me it is Sakya tradition, because He is not sitting on snow lion.

The monk told me that, after the controversial issue, someone left the framed picture outside of Trijang Ladrang. The monk took it back in and kept it.

hope rainbow

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Re: Is this Dorje Shugden from Sakya tradition?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 07:08:01 AM »
Yes, I have seen a frame picture of this form of Dorje Shugden in Trijang Ladrang in Gaden. The monk told me it is Sakya tradition, because He is not sitting on snow lion.

The monk told me that, after the controversial issue, someone left the framed picture outside of Trijang Ladrang. The monk took it back in and kept it.

Interesting way of "getting rid" of a Dorje Shugden picture, while making sure it remains safe!
This is, I hope, representative of how the ban is considered by some (many I hope).