Dear Harold, I see that our previous discussion on the topic did not help you enough, as you keep saying that
Please google "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" and go to the website abhidharma.ru
Research is not only to “google” something, but also to
think precisely on what has been googled, your failure to do so being what makes you so obstinately attached to your own misrepresentation of well established facts.
This book was written circa 1950 by Rene De Nebesky Wokowitz.
Which is not a reason to misrepresent what is stated and to assert what is not stated in the book, which precisely is what you do.
Indeed, as opposed to your claims, the author has never said that his informants were devotees of Dorje Shugden, and the author has never denied the existence of other possible versions.
On page 134-135 you will see him recounting the singular story of how Drakpa Gyetsen commited "Suicide".
This is the merely the “singular story” the author heard from barely two informants, of unknown affiliation as far as Dorje Shugden is concerned, and nowhere the author states that theirs is the only findable story.
This story is his two informants' story, just this, and just this is what the author says.
The author got this story of Dorje Shugden's death
The author never got a story of “Dorje Shugden's death”, but merely a story of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation's death.
May I refresh your memory to remember that before Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation death Dorje Shugden did not yet exist, as the latter is supposed to be the aspect taken by the former after his death.
from two Gelug Tulkus, Darmpo Rinpoche and Krasmthong Rinpoche. The author does not give any other version of how Dorje Shugden died.
Since the author had barely two informants on this topic, and since these mere two informants were nowhere stated to be Dorje Shugden devotees, their version of the death of Dorje Shugden's previous incarnation (not of “Dorje Shugden”, may I insist) cannot by any means be stated to represent the story traditionally told by Dorje Shugden devotees, which is the sole topic herein discussed.
Maybe you naively think that all Gelugpas were Dorje Shugden devotees at the author's time, or that all Gelugpas were Dorje Shugden devotees until the current witch-hunt perpetrated by the current evil criminal the 14th dalie lame, but this is not and has never been the case since the time of the bloodthirsty criminal the evil “5th” dalie lame.
No story of him being "Murdered" just that he committed suicide.
No story of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen's being murdered, but only in your extremely limited source, which you like an evangelical fanatic take as the bible apart from which nothing exists.
Besides, even this source does not say that its own source, the two Gelugpa lamas, were devotees of Dorje Shugden.
Please note that there is an old tradition within Drepung of repudiating Dorje Shugden, and therefore the murdering of his previous incarnation, starting with the evil “5th” dalie himself.
Remember this book was written around 1950 long before any problems involving the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.
You obviously ignore the basic fact that “problems involving the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden” are traced back to the murderous “5th” dalie lame.
So Matibhadra we now have two versions of how Drakpa Gyetsen died.
And, except for your misreading,
zero version that Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen suicided recounted by someone asserted, let alone verified, to be a devotee of Dorje Shugden.
I am fully aware that many people refuse to accept the possibility that Dorje Shugden committed "Suicide".
Did Dorje Shugden die? This would be sad news indeed, if I didn't knew that the source (you) is so unreliable!
Now, since even according to you many people would refuse to the “suicide” version, how comes that the “suicide” version was from the very start the only existent one?
Your denial of the murdering version is therefore ilogical and infantile.
The author was a Professor and scholar from Vienna and had not axe to grind with Dorje Shugden.
Which is great, and distinguishes him from many Soros-sponsored prostituted academics abounding in Western universities nowadays.
However, you failed to remark 1) that such scholar has never mentioned that his barely two informants were Dorje Shugden devotees, and 2) that such scholar has never stated that after consulting with other informants, including devotees of Dorje Shugden, he found that the suicide version is the only existing version.
Besides, the scholar's methodology is grossly defective, as he did not even try to verify the affiliation of his informants.
Tsem Tulku has on numerous occasions quoted from this book.
Despite its obvious shortcomings, the book is still valuable; what is not valuable is the way you misrepresent what the author says, and fail to remark what the author did not say.
"Murder" sells better to an audience then "Suicide".
Which, according to your ridiculous logic, proves that every single murdering in History has been a suicide, right?
For instance, half million people suicided in Hiroshima and Nagasaki when they saw US planes overflying them with gifts, and then the atomic bomb story was invented because it sells better; Julius Caesar suicided with a knife when he saw Brutus approaching him with a flower, but the the murdering story was invented because it sells better; and what not?
Your incompetence as a reader is only supplanted by your childishness as a thinker.
In the matter of Dorje Shugden being "Unenlightened" this is what is believed by the Sakya followers of Dorje Shugden.
Wrong, because many Sakyapas traditionally believed Dorje Shugden to be an enlightened being, whereas those who, just like the evil dalie, believe Dorje Shugden to be unenlightened cannot be actually counted as his devotees.
And since what matters in the current discussion is how Dorje Shugden is seen
by his devotees and not by others, the thoughtlessness of your argument is well established.
Not all followers of Dorje Shugden are Gelugpas.
Not all Gelugpas, or so-called Gelugpas, see Dorje Shugden as an enlightened being, and not all non-Gelugpas see Dorje Shugden as an unenlightened being, as exemplified by the many Sakyapas seeing Dorje Shugden as a supramundane protector.
Remember it was was Sakya that first made Dorje Shugden a Dharmapala. He was later co-opted into the Gelugpa Sect.
Right. And what does it have to do with the currently discussed topic?
How my answers have help you.
They helped showing that our previous conversation did not help you.
Anyway, if you want a modern, thorough, impartial, reliable Western academic work showing how the murdering story is as old as Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen's death, and how actually this murdering was likely perpetrated by a Bhutanese Nyingma assassin on the orders of the evil “5th” dalie lame, all on the basis of available historic sources, please google for Lindsay G. McCune's
Tales Of Intrigue From Tibet's Holy City: The Historical Underpinnings of a Modern Buddhist Crisis.
