Kelsang Rabten responds to Shar Gaden ex-monk speaking on Trijang Rinpoche

[pemachen]

IF this was done by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, I truly believe that what he does, he has a bigger picture in mind. His decisions and dedication made New Kadampa Tradition a huge movement with hundreds of centres around the world, and the protests, although I don't agree with the slogan, caught the attention of media worldwide to report on the Shugden issue or conflict.

If this was done by his students, I am sorry, I do not have faith, and what they do doesn't seem right. They made Geshe-la looks like someone who goes against his teacher, the previous Trijang Rinpoche.

What is the real reason behind this  Although NKT is big, it doesn't mean what they say is absolutely right 

[grandmapele]

Can anyone be sure that, that was what Geshe Kelsang Gyatso said. Besides, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso hasn't made an appearance in public for a long while now. Could this be again internal politics in the absence of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?

Anyway, as for Shar Gaden website, obviously something is not right as they have no access to the website. So, who is in charge of the website there?

Samsara, samsara, is Buddhism to be destroyed from within?

Source: http://www.meditationthailand.com/16predictions.htm

@vajratruth - "This describes well the situation the High Lamas and serious practitioners of Dorje Shugden find themselves today. Clearly, the Buddha foresaw this situation occurring. "

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=2041.msg29070#msg29070

Degeneration of the Buddha's teachings as prophesied?

[pemachen]

Can anyone be sure that, that was what Geshe Kelsang Gyatso said. Besides, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso hasn't made an appearance in public for a long while now. Could this be again internal politics in the absence of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?

Don't mean to sound like some of the NKT-haters, but really, because Geshe Kelsang Gyatso did not make public appearance, that has caused much speculation on whether certain things done were Geshe-la's wishes. Perhaps Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's purpose of doing so is for the NKT Sangha to rely and focus on the next generation of teachers, such as Kelsang Dekyong, Kelsang Khyenrab, Kelsang Rabten and so on.

Does anyone see any response from the NKT people besides Kelsang Rabten? I wonder if 1 person represents what the whole Sangha of NKT thinks? 

[DharmaDefender]

The latest is that Shar Gaden has launched their own official website - https://www.shargaden.org/

Im not sure what this accomplishes since they dont appear in the search results when you search for the monasterys name but Im sure theres a good reason behind it. In any case, heres hoping this website will be updated more often than the previous one was. Most Tibetan monasteries dont have a very good track record of upkeeping their online real estate which is a real pity because its the easiest way these days to reach out for support from around the world instead of relying on tourists who stumble across you only after theyve made their way to India!

[ShugdenProtector]

And here we have two-face Stasi Peljor, posing as Blake Smith, who disappeared and then reappeared, who suddenly seem like he's on Shugden Tibetans/ non-NKT Shugdenpas side!



>>> http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=5809.msg63803#msg63803

What I am very surprised is how all the issue on NKT calling HH Trijang Rinpoche fake is turning out to be siding Shugden people/Tibetans who are not NKT followers! Strangely it has twisted to be like so, on purpose or not that is the question here.

Is Geshe Kelsang Gyatso destroying NKT's link with all Tibetan connections in order to for more unity and action from the Tibetan Shugdenpas themselves? Just toying with some possible scenarios, if the motivation was set good for a much bigger cause. Perhaps I am being wishful thinking?

[michaela]

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s and his senior student, Kelsang Rabten’s comments on the authenticity of Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche have attracted many controversies, especially from Trijang Tulku faithful followers. I do not and have never doubted Geshe Kelsang’s noble intention in spreading the Dharma and his faith on Dorje Shugden. His lifetime of work is the proof of his faith of his perseverance and good intention.

On the other hand, I also believe that the current incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche has a lot of potentials, and I do not doubt the authenticity of his incarnation status.  However, I have not seen Trijang Rinpoche or his followers are doing much to help lift the Dorje Shugden ban and relief the suffering of many in the recent years.

I do believe that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s comment on the authenticity of Trijang Rinpoche was meant to provoke him and his followers to do more to prove to the world that the current Trijang Tulku is the real incarnation. Otherwise, why only comment after Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche reached the age of 35 years old and had been recognized for years?

Therefore, instead of making the situation worse by creating controversy and making NKT an enemy, I strongly suggest that Trijang Rinpoche’s followers to do more work to preserve the lineage and spread the Dharma in order to convince the world that the current Trijang Rinpoche is the real incarnation. I believe this will be more beneficial.

May peace prevails!

[pemachen]

There were 'rumours' through the grapevine that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was upset as many NKT members or students attended Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche's teachings in Europe. Has anyone heard anything similar ?

NKT is a huge organisation, how many is 'many' exactly? In my opinion, someone like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso will not be bothered if a small number of people went to attend Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche's teachings. Even if these people were to leave NKT, they may not stop the NKT from growing bigger and attracting more students? Unless the students attending Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche's teachings were Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's close students, I don't think it is a big concern for NKT as there are 1200 Kadampa Centers and branches in 40 countries around the world.

Another thing to consider is what was the basis Geshe Kelsang Gyatso was upset? Was it because Geshe Kelsang Gyatso doesn't believe that Chocktrul Rinpoche is the real incarnation, or was it because Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche is a potential 'threat' or 'competitor'? What do you think?

[grandmapele]

@pemachen, do you think Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is trying to goad Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche to show his activities publicly and in way to prove that he is who the other high lamas say he is? To proof by his activities? Right now, Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche has been pretty low key. After all, the proof is in the pudding, that by his activities that benefit many, many people, Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche silences all dissension and rally all Dorje Shugden practitioners behind him?

I think it is pretty demeaning to think that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso can be jealous or fearful of Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche's influence or popularity. There is nothing to be gained and a lot to be lost by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso further dividing practitioners. Why would attained beings get involved in such mundane affairs if not for a higher cause?

Or, do you think that Buddha's prophecy that Buddhism will be destroyed from within, is happening here and now?

[Pema8]

I cannot believe it! Why is there now also politics within the Dorje Shugden community? Why attacking Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche who has been recognised by HH Zong Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden long time ago?

I don't see the point to create further problems by going against one another! We should work together to end the Shugden ban and not starting problems where there are none!

So the only thing we want is to end the ban against Dorje Shugden, am I right or am I right?

I hope this can stay our main focus as this is crucial for all of us!

[pemachen]

It seems things are getting more serious now. I just saw this. I wonder what NKT/ ISBC has up the sleeve?



Seems like some NKT members who have been quiet are now are speaking up about this. Why is NKT/ ISBC doing this - still no has has or has given the answer. It cannot be that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is just adamant that Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche is fake. Come on, Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche was in the monastery for years, it cannot be that he is fake, and non of the high lamas said anything  Geshe Kelsang Gyatso should know, he was in the monastery system.

[PrajNa]

I saw quite a few posts about the leaflet from NKT people on facebook. Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche's birth date is still being debated. NKT insisting on this wrong information to make their argument  .



His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche is the eighteenth in a lineage of eminent Indian and Tibetan pandits and masters. The supreme reincarnation was born on October 15 1982 in a Tibetan family in Dalhousie, Northern India and was officially recognized by His Holiness the 14th. Dalai Lama on April 23, 1985. Rinpoche has completed his primary studies under his root guru H.E. Kyabje Lati Rinpoche and Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche. Presently Rinpoche is doing further studies under the guidance of H.E. Dagpo Rinpoche, H.E. Yongyal Rinpoche. As the Spiritual Director of the Trijang Buddhist Institute, he will guide the Institute's activities and programs for the public, for ordained monks and nuns, and for future lay teachers whose Dharma training is anticipated in coming years.

https://www.tbiusa.org/his-holiness-trijang-chocktrul-rinpoche-spiritual-director/

I am sure the information from the Trijang Buddhist Institute's website is the most accurate?

I have been thinking. Since NKT is against the Lama Policy and has traditionally DO NOT recognise Tulkus or are familiar with the Tulku system, WHO MAKES THEM THE AUTHORITY now to say that the current Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche is not the real one?

Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche was recognised through the proper Tulku recognition system, being recognised by HH the Dalai Lama, as well as growing up in the monastery among great lamas, senior Tulkus, before he had to leave the monastery in his teens due to death threats. It cannot be that for the 13 years Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche was in the monastery, everyone, including his teachers mentioned above from Gaden, Sera, Drepung all kept quiet about this 'fake' incarnation?

[pemachen]

I don't know what NKT is up to, really. They are against the tulku system or Lama policy, I respect them for this is what they wish for their Kadampa organization. But they cannot deny the fact that this system is there, and was established and had been 'in use' till now and is still working.

You can read more here, you may not have read this before: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/the-tulku-system-is-crucial-for-the-lineage-to-endure/

This also does not mean that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso do not believe in tulkus/ reincarnation system. In fact, it is well known that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso claims he has recognised the reincarnation of his mother in the daughter of an English couple, Ruth and Ron Lister. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso's uncle was the Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama, a Dorje Shugden oracle of Gaden Monastery, who had visited and took trance in Manjushri Institute.

Prajna, these teachers mentioned by you (from the Trijang Buddhist Institute websites) are highly respected teachers and some are abbots/ ex-abbots of the Three Great Seats (Gaden, Sera, Drepung). It is unlikely that the 3 monasteries will go along accepting a fake incarnation.

Besides, the 101st Ganden Tripa Lungri Namgyal Rinpoche also recognised Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche, authorizing Trijang Buddhist Institute of Northfelid Vermont to “represent and transmit the teachings of the Gelug order of Tibetan Buddhism in the United States.”

He also stated catacorically that Trijang Chogtrul Rinpoche (“having been educated in the teachings of the Gelug order of Tibetan Buddhism, and officially recognized by His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama as being the incarnation of the late Trijang Dorje Chang, Tutor to the 14th Dalai Lama and one of the greatest twentieth-century Buddhist masters of this order…”) is fully qualified to act as director of TBI.

So, the whole of Gelugpa recognises Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche. But again, NKT is not Gelugpa, so...

Here is the letter,

 

taken from the post 'Ganden Tripa Authorizes Dorje Shugden Practitioners to represent the Gelugpa tradition'
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/ganden-tripa-authorizes-dorje-shugden-pratitioners-to-represent-the-gelugpa-tradition/

[Pema8]

The only thing that comes to my mind is "STOP LYING"

All these accusations have no basis! What is the goal here?

[PrajNa]

I am surprised about the basis of criticism, which is the birth date, as well as Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche being married.



Let's see...


The 10th Panchen Lama was married with a daughter.


Famous Nyingma master Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche with (wife) Sangyum Khandro Lhamo in the center; to the right is their daughter Semo Chime Wangmo and to the left her sister at Lhasa before leaving for Bhutan around 1959.


Sakya's Drolma Podrang family (Sakya Trizins)


Sakya's Phuntsok Podrang family (Sakya Trizins)

As for Kagyu, His Holiness the 15th Karmapa (1871-1922), Khakhyab Dorje had three sons, one of whom was recognised as the second Jamgon Kongtrul Palden Khyentse Oser. Now the 17th Karmapa was also recently married.


So according to the argument by International Shugden Buddhist Community, does that mean ALL SCHOOLS of Tibetan Buddhism ‘has no experience of pure Buddhism’  ?

[Rowntree]

This whole 'issue' is a joke, unnecessary and harmful to the lineage. The NKT are here to find fault based on their own policies and beliefs. They are forcing their policies onto other people arrogantly forcing others to follow regardless. The NKT has a reputation for being arrogant and unreasonable, their attitude do not represent NKT or GKG well too. In fact, they do not behave like a sangha but angersome lay people who blame others for their faults.