Senior Tibetan lama gives up monkhood to marry childhood friend in Delhi

[bambi]

This is interesting. Especially the part where Thaye Dorje said “Something beautiful, something beneficial will emerge, for all of us.” and it will have a positive impact. I am really interested to know what He really mean with that. Perhaps a successor for him, like His father, Him. Well, in time it will reveal itself.

But it is good to know although He will not be a monk, He will continue His responsibilities and to teach.

Any thoughts?




A senior Tibetan lama based in India, who is one of the claimants to the title of Karmapa Lama, has married a childhood friend and abandoned monkhood, his office announced on Thursday.

Thaye Dorje, 33, married Rinchen Yangzom, 36, in a private ceremony attended by close family members in New Delhi on March 25. His office described the couple as “close childhood friends” who have known each other for more than 19 years.

“I have a strong feeling, deep within my heart, that my decision to marry will have a positive impact not only for me, but also for the lineage,” Thaye Dorje was quoted as saying in a statement posted on his website.

“Something beautiful, something beneficial will emerge, for all of us.”

Rinchen Yangzom, whose Tibetan name means “precious prosperity gathered”, was born in Thimphu and was educated in India and Europe. Thaye Dorje proposed to her according to Tibetan traditions on January 19.

A spokesman for Thaye Dorje told Hindustan Times that he will no longer be a monk but will continue “as the lineage lama and as the Karmapa, including by offering teachings and blessings to students around the world”.

The statement said Thaye Dorje “appreciates that the news of his marriage will come as a surprise to many, and has faith that his students will understand his wish to have kept private this personal element of his very public life”. He and his wife will make their first public appearance together in Bodhgaya in December this year.

Thaye Dorje has claimed since childhood to be the reincarnation of the Karmapa Lama, the 12th century leader of one of the four major schools of Tibetan Buddhism.

Ogyen Trinley Dorje, another monk who fled from Tibet to India in 1999, is recognised by many followers of the Karma Kagyu school as the Karmapa Lama. He is also recognised by the Dalai Lama.

The spokesman said Thaye Dorje has been the “Karmapa from birth” and will “continue his activities as the Karmapa”. He added, “He will hold meditation sessions and will continues his travels, including a European tour that will take him to countries such as Sweden and Spain.”

The 15-day period following the wedding is a “sacred time” and Thaye Dorje and his wife will spend this time with their extended families, the spokesman said.

Thaye Dorje was born in Tibet and his father was a high lama while his mother was descended from Tibetan nobility. According to his official biography, he was one-and-a-half years old when he started telling people that he was the Karmapa Lama.

The Karmapa Lama is not the only senior Tibetan Buddhist title to be disputed.

In 1995, China’s atheist government picked a young boy to be the Panchen Lama – a role already filled by another boy chosen by the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama’s choice was detained by Chinese authorities at the age of six and has not been seen since.

The Panchen Lama traditionally plays a significant role in the choice of the Dalai Lama’s successor. But China’s Communist Party has repeatedly said it has the right to control the process of reincarnation.

Many Tibetan Buddhists fear the Chinese government is putting in place a set-up to impose its choice of spiritual leader after the Dalai Lama’s death.

Taken from http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/senior-tibetan-lama-gives-up-monkhood-to-marry-childhood-friend-in-delhi/story-VaD3ixQDFZ3s093xpmntZN.html

[vajra-NMD]

My thoughts : to dis-robe or abandoned monkhood, it's such a waste for spiritual path. ( in my case : if i were a monk, i will continue to be and until the day i passed away ),So... i am not here to judge Thaye Dorje, what he did is maybe wrong or maybe right?

Or else, maybe he is another Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche?

Crazy Wisdom: The Life & Times of Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche -Trailer -Shambhala -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80jGSadccmY&t=79s

[grandmapele]

Some schools of Tibetan Buddhism doesn't require one to be ordained to be a teacher or master. Therefore, if the motivation and the actions of Thaye Dorje are in line with a higher order, I don't think it is my place to judge him. Motivation is the key to karma and merits and so, if the motivation is right, and he continues to benefit more people, well, and good.

We shouldn't be quick to judge others but have to reflect on what the motivation is.

[Alex]

This is interesting to see High Lamas like him to return his vows and take on a consort. It is not uncommon to see highly attained lamas who are pure monks in their previous lives, take on a consort and usually, the offspring they produce will be beneficial to Dharma. This kind of relationship is very special and beneficial to the lineage.

These high lamas do not take on a consort to fulfil their own desires. They do not create negative karma because they do not have attachment or desire towards the consort or any activities that will be done with the consort. It was done purely to benefit other sentient beings. This what highly attained beings can do to benefit others.

Many would think it is a hoax or the lama did it to fulfil his desires. But if we examine the lama's previous lives, we will know how highly attained that lama is. If he is very attained lama, the chances of him degenerating to the level of a normal human being are impossible. There is a level of attainments where anyone that reach that level or beyond, their mind will not degenerate. Hence, many of the attained lamas are able to carry out their duty to spread Dharma life after life without being distracted by samsaric pleasures.

[Drolma]

It was a big surprise to everyone when Karmapa Thaye Dorje announced he was going to marry his childhood friend. But his followers seem to be ok with that. Actually, did he disrobe? Is he still wearing the monk's robe?

It is true that sometimes high lamas will disrobe and get a consort. Their consorts are not ordinary people, their children are born with a special mission to benefit all sentient beings. Karmapa Thaye Dorje's first child, a baby boy was born not long ago.

I think the baby must be some kind of special being who was born to benefit us. If Karmapa wants to lead a layperson's life and have a happy family, he could have just left the center and say goodbye to his followers, but he didn't. I am curious to see what the baby will become when he grows up.

[SabS]

I would say we shouldn't just judge someone who has that level of attainments, of their decisions. They have the clairvoyance of what is needed to benefit others, even at the sacrifice of their reputation. Besides, if he is the real thing, then it does not matter he is married or not as the Dharma that he teaches still carries the beneficial path of the Buddha. There had been many examples of Lamas having their consorts and were still equally effective in their teachings and practices. May the baby manifests greatness to benefit sentient beings, swiftly.

[Alex]

I think this is just another way for His Holiness the Karmapa contribute to his lineage. The attained beings have many ways that they can contribute towards the Dharma and sometimes the method might be something that we are not familiar or we dont not understand. All we need to do is to have faith in these holy beings and go with what they have decided. Most importantly, we do not break our Guru samaya because once we break that, there is no way that we will succeed in our spiritual practice anymore.

There are many high lamas that return their vows and take on a consort to start a family. In many cases, the offspring of these high lamas are the reincarnation of other high lamas. This is a way for them to make sure the lineage stays on the new generation of the lamas will get the education they needed in their early life to later be a lineage holder themselves. There are many examples and His Holiness Karmapa is certainly not the first one to do this.

I personally do not think there is anything wrong for His Holiness the Karmapa to disrobe because even after he returned the vows, he is still actively propagating Buddha's teachings and his lineage. There are many lay lamas around the world who are important lineage holders. A very famous example will be the 10th Panchen Lama. His contribution to the Dharma is no way less than any ordained lamas. Hence, we should wish His Holiness the Karmapa the best and support his decision.

[Tracy]

It is rumoured that the son of the Karmapa is the reincarnation of Sharma Rinpoche. Traditionally, the Karmapa and Sharma Rinpoche are always related. This rumour might be real. Usually, a high lama gets a consort for a spiritual reason, they become the vessels for an enlightened being to take rebirth in a human form.

We may not comprehend how an enlightened being works because they see beyond what we can see. Whatever they do is with the motivation to benefit all sentient beings. For example, Trijang Rinpoche said in his text that one day the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden might appear to be against each other but we should never lose faith in either of them.

For the Karmapa Thaye Dorje to have a consort and get married, there must be a special reason too. He must have consulted his teacher as well. Not long after he announced his marriage, his consort was pregnant and a baby boy was born. It seems like his purpose to get a consort is to have a baby. Therefore, it is very likely that the baby boy is a special being.

[Drolma]

So it may be real that the son of the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is the reincarnation of Sharma Rinpoche. The baby was taken to a hair cutting ceremony recently. It was said that usually, a baby will not go for a hair cutting ceremony unless if the baby is recognised as a reincarnated lama.

I guess it is quite possible the Sharma Rinpoche decided to take rebirh as the son of the Karmapa. It is a tradition that Sharma Rinpoche and Karmapa are always born in the same family, they can be uncle and nephew or cousins. For a high lama like the Karmapa to suddenly disrobed and got married, it must be for this reason.

So many things are happening in the Kagyu lineage lately. The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is involved in a sex scandal, until now he has not made any statement neither has the CTA. The 2 Karmapas met up and then the Sharma Rinpoche is the son of one of the Karmapa. It looks like a soap opera now!

[Tracy]

The hair cutting ceremony was not conducted by the Dalai Lama or lamas who are very close to the CTA. The Karmapa Thaye Dorje really is not bothered about the Dalai Lama and the CTA. I guess the CTA and the Dalai Lama are slowly losing their power and the Tibetans also know they are not reliable.

As the spiritual head of the Karma Kagyu lineage, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje really does not need recognition from the Dalai Lama. He also doesn't need an endorsement from the Dalai Lama to validate his identity because this is not the tradition. Traditionally, each lineage has its own system to recognise their lamas, they don't need the approval from the CTA or the Dalai Lama.

The CTA may be shaking now as more and more people are going against them. Not only the lay people are going against them, but even high lamas such as the 2 Karmapas also are not kowtowing to them. The CTA likes to think that they are above law, it might be the case in the past but not anymore. CTA better wake up and stop dreaming!

[SabS]

Isn't it great that the baby of Karmapa Thaye Dorje is actually the reincarnation of Sharmapa? This is a great lesson that we should never judge attained beings in their actions as they are geared towards only beneficial activities that we may usually not be able to gauge at our current state of mind. Having the rebirth of Sharmapa within Karmapa Thaye Dorje's household is good as then he may be able to control the education and growth of the Sharmapa in line with the Karma Kagyu's lineage. Most importantly, no interference from the Tibetan leaders and CTA. Hahaha! Wonderful how attained beings control the situation even when ignorant beings think that things are within their control.

[Tracy]

Isn't it great that the baby of Karmapa Thaye Dorje is actually the reincarnation of Sharmapa? This is a great lesson that we should never judge attained beings in their actions as they are geared towards only beneficial activities that we may usually not be able to gauge at our current state of mind. Having the rebirth of Sharmapa within Karmapa Thaye Dorje's household is good as then he may be able to control the education and growth of the Sharmapa in line with the Karma Kagyu's lineage. Most importantly, no interference from the Tibetan leaders and CTA. Hahaha! Wonderful how attained beings control the situation even when ignorant beings think that things are within their control.

Many high lamas are the emanations of enlightened beings, their purpose of taking rebirth in a human form is to liberate all sentient beings in our realms from sufferings. Because they have clairvoyance so what they are doing is not for short term but long term. Very often we might not comprehend their actions.

When the Karmapa Thaye Dorje disrobed and married his childhood friend, many people could not understand and it was shocking. His followers don't expect him to get married and lead a lay person's life. But now we know why the Karmapa Thaye Dorje suddenly disobed.

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje is preparing a conducive environment for the Sharmapa Rinpoche to take rebirth. When a high lama get married, it is not for the purpose of having a secular life or to have a wife and children. There is always a reason behind it. Besides, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje did not really lead a lay person's life, he is still giving teaching and benefitting many people. 

[Drolma]

I would say we shouldn't just judge someone who has that level of attainments, of their decisions. They have the clairvoyance of what is needed to benefit others, even at the sacrifice of their reputation. Besides, if he is the real thing, then it does not matter he is married or not as the Dharma that he teaches still carries the beneficial path of the Buddha. There had been many examples of Lamas having their consorts and were still equally effective in their teachings and practices. May the baby manifests greatness to benefit sentient beings, swiftly.

Enlightened beings are very mysterious, we will never know what will be their next step but one thing for sure, whatever they are doing is to benefit others. They don't take rebirth to enjoy the mundane activities, they have a higher purpose. They are very compassionate to take rebirth in our realms to guide us so we can be liberated.

The Karmapa is not the first lama in history to disrobe and get married. Many lamas have done that, including lamas in Gelug lineage. Most of them have children after getting married. Their children turn out to be reincarnated high lamas. Again, unlike normal people, they don't get married and have children because society says so,  but they do it so that another enlightened being can be born in a conducive environment to continue to benefit all sentient beings.

Therefore, we should not feel disappointed when a high lama disrobes and gets married. We have to see what he does after that. Does he stop benefitting others or he is still benefitting others? Sometimes we have to be open-minded, break our own projection in order to see a bigger picture.

[Tenzin K]

This is not the first time I came across of high Lama return their vows, having family and children. For high Lama, personally for me all their actions always for a good reason. Just like HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche in Vermont. We may not have the wisdom to understand their action but knowing their attainment from lifetime after lifetime we can rest assured of their action.

For the genuine high lama having family always bring benefit to others. Somehow we may not able to see it now but we will witness it in the future.

[Drolma]

This is not the first time I came across of high Lama return their vows, having family and children. For high Lama, personally for me all their actions always for a good reason. Just like HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche in Vermont. We may not have the wisdom to understand their action but knowing their attainment from lifetime after lifetime we can rest assured of their action.

For the genuine high lama having family always bring benefit to others. Somehow we may not able to see it now but we will witness it in the future.

It was shocking to know the Karmapa was going to get married when he made the announcement. I am just wondering why is he still wearing like a monk? I think in Karmapa lineage, most of his incarnations were monks. Maybe in this degenerate time, it is easier to spread Dharma to lay people if the teacher also appear to look like a normal person. The other possibility is that the Sharmapa wants to take birth in the Karmapa's family.

Not long after the Karmapa married the childhood friend, the wife was pregnant. It is said that the baby is the reincarnation of Sharmapa. If this is true, it will be great! It is not unusual for a high lama to get married so another high lama can take rebirth in a very conducive environment to be trained and get ready to turn the wheel of Dharma again when they grow up.

High lamas has very powerful clairvoyance power, they know what is the best method to preserve and spread Dharma. However, due to our obscuration, sometimes we see good action as bad. Whatever it is, we should never criticise monks if we don't want to create negative karma by accident.