Dorje Shugden oracle composes long life prayer for Geshe Kelsang Gyatso

[aboutthetruth]

Well done everyone! I've seen every negative thought and delusion possible expressed on this topic.

Perhaps you could contemplate why a renunciate monk who has no interest in women, sex or children could possibly end up as a disrobed, married parent? Do you really think that's possible? What possible benefit could there be for sentient beings and what message does that send about ordination, which is vitally important in Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, considering that both Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden both wear ordained robes?

Please think about how believing that a disrobed boy could possibly be a valid Tulku of Trijang Rinpoche and how this belief humiliates the great Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang. Please also think how this example of being a disrobed  lineageholder in Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition is a really bad example that will cause it to degenerate.

Please think!

Dear Lineageholder,

Should we similarly discard all works and teachings by His Holiness the 10th Panchen Lama, the Mahasiddha Serkong Dorje Chang, His Holiness the 6th Dalai Lama and also the Mahasiddha Gantapha? Can we write them off since all these great Masters had consorts?

There are no 'consorts' in Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, Je Rinpoche's example shows that.

Okay, so finally the NKT shill has brought up the famous defence, they only accept things in Je Tsongkhapa's lineage. So let's go there. If you want to argue about what's in Je Tsongkhapa's lineage, then you need to define what "Je Tsongkhapa's lineage" is, because the definition seems to be very loose when it comes to the NKT / WSS / ISC / ISBC or whatever iteration you are going by these days.

Kalachakra, yab yum
Heruka, yab yum
Vajradhara, yab yum
Vajrasattva, yab yum

Are they not practices depicted with consorts within Je Tsongkhapa's tradition? And those are just the deities, never mind the list of lamas that vajratruth provided.

If you only consider something to be "within Je Tsongkhapa's lineage" as anything coming after Je Rinpoche's lifetime, then NKT should throw out their practice of Vajrayogini. That lineage comes from Naropa who lived before Je Tsongkhapa's time and therefore was not within his tradition. Furthermore, many of the people in the prayer of lineage gurus for Vajrayogini's practice aren't even Gelug or within Je Tsongkhapa's lineage. What is NKT going to do next, remove them from the list of lineage gurus too? And while you're at it, NKT should also throw out the practices of Vajrasattva, Heruka, Manjushri, etc. Throw out the Heart Sutra too, since all of those came from before Je Tsongkhapa's time.

I don't need to delve into the list of lamas since vajratruth has already brought up the topic, which lineageholder is now conveniently ignoring and refusing to properly address.

But the real issue, and my actual point, is how come NKT gets to decide for everyone and impose on them what "Je Tsongkhapa's lineage" is? How come NKT's word is the final word? How come NKT turns nasty when people don't instantly fall in line with what they want? Calling Gonsar Tulku a "troublemaker", is that really necessary?

NKT has a nasty habit of accepting things then throwing them out once they've served their purpose. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak. Examples? How about their exploitation of the Shugden Tibetans, including those loyal to Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche? Including them in the protests was done in order to make the protests look credible but once those protests were over, the Tibetans weren't given the time of day or any explanation as to why. On top of that, NKT then has the nerve to set up a new organisation to attack their teacher, Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche 

Or how about inviting the oracle to their centre, taking advice from him and asking him to compose prayers then throwing him out when oracles are suddenly invalidated? It's just a stunning amount of behaviour that lacks consideration for anyone else who isn't, let's face it, white. Disregard the opinions of the non-white people and dismiss them as backwards and illogical, that's what people like Sanglam spends all day telling others on Twitter.

Furthermore, NKT claims devotion to the gurus but those gurus were tulkus themselves, and they perpetuated the tulku system that NKT are now revolting against. NKT should remove all images of Zong Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche from their centres, and never write another devotional word about them again.

There are just so many inconsistencies to the NKT behaviour but sure, lets all trust the NKT shill just because he comes with a grandiose name.

[aboutthetruth]

Well done everyone! I've seen every negative thought and delusion possible expressed on this topic.

Perhaps you could contemplate why a renunciate monk who has no interest in women, sex or children could possibly end up as a disrobed, married parent? Do you really think that's possible? What possible benefit could there be for sentient beings and what message does that send about ordination, which is vitally important in Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, considering that both Je Tsongkhapa and Dorje Shugden both wear ordained robes?

Please think about how believing that a disrobed boy could possibly be a valid Tulku of Trijang Rinpoche and how this belief humiliates the great Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang. Please also think how this example of being a disrobed  lineageholder in Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition is a really bad example that will cause it to degenerate.

Please think!

Dear Lineageholder,

Should we similarly discard all works and teachings by His Holiness the 10th Panchen Lama, the Mahasiddha Serkong Dorje Chang, His Holiness the 6th Dalai Lama and also the Mahasiddha Gantapha? Can we write them off since all these great Masters had consorts?

There are no 'consorts' in Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, Je Rinpoche's example shows that.

Here you go lineageholder what does this say about Ghantapa, a major Heruka practitioner? Ignoring the exorbitant cost of the statue! "The monk who became a householder" and look, a consort. You should read up about Ghantapa considering he's one of the lineage lamas for Heruka's practice.

Do his actions with a consort invalidate his practice? I guess then NKT might as well get rid of the Heruka practice too since, according to NKT's version of Je Tsongkhapa's tradition, consort practice is not accepted and the Heruka lineage is therefore invalidated thanks to Ghantapa.

[Harold Musetescu]

How about those naught actions by Padmasambhava and his consort or should I say consorts.

"NO ROBES NO TEACHINGS"!!!!

Have I got that right NKT?

[Harold Musetescu]

I must now presume that the NKT considers His Eminence Tsem Tulku to be in the same group of Tulkus that they want nothing to do with.

Tsem Tulku hated by the NKT?

[Erstvollzug]

I must now presume that the NKT considers His Eminence Tsem Tulku to be in the same group of Tulkus that they want nothing to do with.

Tsem Tulku hated by the NKT?

Why do you always talk about Tsem Tulku? What is your vendetta. Stick to the subject matter.

[Harold Musetescu]

Erstvollzug

Don't get your point.

I was saying a good thing about Tsem Tulku.

By the way we were talking about NKT's treatment of Dorje Shugden Tulku's and how wrong they are so I am on topic.

Last I looked Tsem Tulku was and is a Dorje Shugden follower.

So how does my standing up for Tsem Tulku a Vendetta?

Please stick to the subject matter Heir Erstvollzug.

[Erstvollzug]

Erstvollzug

Don't get your point.

I was saying a good thing about Tsem Tulku.

By the way we were talking about NKT's treatment of Dorje Shugden Tulku's and how wrong they are so I am on topic.

Last I looked Tsem Tulku was and is a Dorje Shugden follower.

So how does my standing up for Tsem Tulku a Vendetta?

Please stick to the subject matter Heir Erstvollzug.

You got my point perfectly. I read some of the rude and accusational comments you left on Tsem Tulku's blog posts (comments). I was directed to them by lineage-holder. You switch back and forth. Sometimes you say neutral things about Tsem Tulku and sometimes you berate him. You tell the whole world you are some Tengyeling oracle and then who believes you? No one. You recognize people as tulkus on your rantings on his blog comments and it's there for all to see, snag and save. You are just an old man who followed a very controversial 'teacher' whose passed now in your days. So just keep to yourself and don't interfere. I think you should just relax with your 'channelling' wife from your Restnook Lane house in Stouffville and do your prayers if you are still Buddhist and be at peace.

For your information, Tsem Tulku has done more for the Dorje Shugden lineage online than any other lama alive and you should thank him and support him. He has braved so much criticism, attacks, accusations, threats and simply criticisms from fruit cakes, stalkers and people online dying for attention and recognition in their lives. Yet Tsem Tulku never deters from his devotion to his lamas, his practice and Dorje Shugden. What have many other lamas done? Nothing. They stay quiet protecting their reputations. Dorje Shugden practice, knowledge, lineage and history is so well documented, shared and promoted on social media by Tsem Tulku and his students and many of us are grateful for this. My personal teachers praise Tsem Tulku very much and find it amazing he can do so much on line. His blog alone has over 9 million views when I last looked. My point, you should be appreciative of a lama like Tsem Tulku if you are a follower of Dorje Shugden. If you are against Dorje Shugden, then you continue doing what you do. If you are a neutral, then keep quiet. Tsem Tulku has done nothing to you. Tsem Tulku, his life, location and history and works are all online and open for the public. You? You hide behind a name and also you use to do a nasty website claiming to expose frauds/cults and you would attack people that has nothing to do with you. You are not anyone who can judge anyone and berate anyone. You are not the spiritual authority of anyone. Religious freedom is enshrined by the UN and in most civilized countries. So whether someone is doing something you like or not is not your business. Tsem Tulku only works hard for the Dorje Shugden cause and the majority of Dorje Shugden lamas support, admire and keep in good contacts with Tsem Tulku due to his hard works. 

Your feuds online with other people and your hatred of Jews is well documented online and on the internet. Be at peace and do your meditations. Leave people alone and stop trying to get attention, bully, boss and cyber scare people because you have no rights to do this to anyone.

Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha!

[Harold Musetescu]

So now I hate Jews Erstvollzug?

Strange for 20 years I was a Federal Agent working Customs and Immigration.

I arrested and deported for life 6 foreign Neo Nazi, Skin Heads.

They were David Irving, Tom Metzger, Sean Metzger, David Mahon, Sean Macquire and Sean Hammond.

I received National awards from various Jewish Organization for my work against Neo Nazi and Skin Heads.

I created federal legal case law by being the first person to use Canada's "Hate Speech" Laws.

[Matibhadra]

Can you prove that Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is behind NKT's stupid, defamatory statements?

Well who else could it be?

Your far fetched assumption is anything except for the proof you were supposed to offer.

They are all so robotic,

Right, but being robotic means that they will believe any idiot claiming to represent the views of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, if they are not already the idiots claiming to represent such views.

they will dare do anything if only Geshe-la approves.

Or that they in their idiocy believe Geshe Kelsang Gyatso approves, if they are not already the ones making others believe in such approval.

It is well known, can ask any NKT/ex-NKT.people claiming to represent the views of their teachers

Everywhere one will find people claiming to represent the views of their teachers, and blind believers believing the former. There is no need to single out NKT in this respect. And there is no evidence that you yourself are not included in one, or both, of such categories, specially when you display your fanboy hatred against such a holy guru as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso.

And such a zainy idea can only come from Geshe-la.

Assuming that you are talking about the idea behind the statement, wherefrom comes your assumption?

Indeed, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is known for uttering only and strictly pure Buddhist teachings throughout his whole life as a teacher, without even the slightest trace of the hatred, spitefulness, envy, and harmfulness, as seen in both the Kelsangs' and your statements.

You think these kind of defamatory statements would come naturally and daringly from the Kelsangs?

Why not? Why should defamatory statements come from you but not from them? Do you believe that being a hateful fanboy of another guru guarantees that you are better than any of the crooked Kelsangs?

You think they would dare go against their own Guru's Guru IF Geshe-la did not agree and told them to do so and give them the green light?

Going against one's own guru is a phenomenon most seen in Buddhism. The evil dalie goes against Trijang Rinpoche, many Buddhists go against the Buddha's teachings, and so forth. Why shouldn't the crooked Kelsangs go against Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?

On the other hand, according to your own logic, you must have received the green light from some crooked guru of yours in order to defame a holy teacher such as Geshe Kelsag Gyatso, whereby you should at least follow the example of the crooked Kelsangs and identify your own crooked guru.

Think about it, who is the top?

Are you so silly to think that ideas always come from the top?

For instance, in the case of the evil dalie, the evil ideas definitely come from the top gangster, the evil dalie himself, because there is plenty of hard evidence showing that this is the case. However, except for your own sick assumptions, this is not at all the case with such a holy teacher as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso.

And again, according to your own crooked logic, one must assume that your own defamation against such a holy teacher as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso must come from the top, whereby now you owe the rest of us the identification of who is the mastermind behind your own vile behavior.

He is the greatest mastermind,

Why are you so concerned with the Kelsangs' mastermind, when you lack the guts to identify the mastermind behind your own defamation?

he was the one who asked them to start the protest against Dalai Lama and attempted to bring Dalai Lama to court.

And what is wrong with this? Why should a criminal not be protested against and brought to court?

What proof? Let's just say an old cat from the NKT block whispered to me and I am sure many others.

This one about protesting against and suing the evil dalie requires no proof, as it is a virtuous, skilful action. If Geshe Kelsang Gyatso did not publicly declare his authorship it was most likely because of modesty.

[Harold Musetescu]

Hello again Erstvollzug

You picked on me about a website I no longer have.

As I told you I spent 20 years as a Federal Agent with Customs and Immigration in Canada.

Another area I worked was CULTS.

I was deemed an "Expert Witness" on "Cults" by the Federal Court of Canada and the "Federal Court of Appeal".

I arrested and deported for life persons who were members of "Cults" trying to enter Canada.

Groups like the Tony and Susan Alamo Cult, the Children of God Cult and the Branch Davidans etc.

After I left the government I was asked by some ex cult members of Tibetan Buddhist Sects to investigate in all 3 Americans.

I was able to expose "Madi Nolan" aka Choden Ridzin Rinpoche as a FAKE.

I was able to expose Dhyani Ywahoo as a FAKE>

I was able to expose Tara Wangchuk aka Domo Geshe Rinpoche as a FAKE.

That right I exposed a woman pretending to be the incarnation of the Dorje Shugden Tulku, His Eminence Dome Geshe Rinpoche.

You should be thanking me for my help fighting for Dorje Shugden and Domo Geshe Rinpoche.

The ex members of these three cults have thanked me.

I am still working with the parents, spouses and brothers and sisters of members who are still trapped inside these cults and others.

[Harold Musetescu]

Hey Erstvollzug

More errors from you.

You say I followed a controversial Buddhist teacher.

Interesting since I have never had a Buddhist teacher.

You say if I am against Tsem Tulku I should be quiet.

How can I hate Tsem Tulku when I worked with him to bring the forgotten Dorje Shugden Dharmapala "Methar" back to the Dorje Shugden fold.

I mean really Erstvollzug, REALLY.

Why do you spread such LIES about me?

[Erstvollzug]

Dear NKT students,

Why have you all in the past recited prayers for the long life of Geshe Kelsang composed by Dorje Shugden in trance of Oracle of Ganden?

You don't believe in oracles, so why do you print what was composed by the oracle in trance? Why do you print and have your centres recite this and now suddenly you are 'debunking' the oracle of Dorje Shugden who was trained by Trijang Rinpoche himself?

[aboutthetruth]

Hey Harold

Thanks to you I went to the post on "Methar" and looked. Tsem put up scriptural sources for what he wrote. So you didn't help him. If you can read the Tibetan, go ahead and try.

"Methar" existed before you and will exist after you. He doesn't need your help. Have a nice day.

[Harold Musetescu]

to abortthetruth

Have a nice day to.
 

[Pema8]

I must now presume that the NKT considers His Eminence Tsem Tulku to be in the same group of Tulkus that they want nothing to do with.

Tsem Tulku hated by the NKT?

@Harold what is your problem? Practice Dharma!

What are you gaining by making up stories after stories?
Do something useful with your life instead of writing fantasies!

Do us all a favour and practice Dharma!