Whats wrong with saying you don't practice?

[iloveds]

I have been wondering whats wrong with saying you don't practice

1) its supposed to be a secret practice anyways
2) you save the people trying to enforce a ban from creating more negative karma
3) if people ever find out you are a practitioner hopefully your actions up till then show you to be a good person and shining example of the practice
4) if your not tibetan or in a monastery the ban doesn't affect you anyway
5) your protector is an enlightened being and will see your true motivation
6) you can share dharma without the politics

Is there anything wrong with this?
thoughts?

[Ensapa]

its an open secret in Gaden that  many lamas are secretly practicing DS..the high ones despite saying "i dont". Because they have their commitments. DL himself says he knows nothing about Kalachakra hehehehahhahahah

who knows if DL does it secretly and he's just generating all this to let people see how stupid tibetans can be hehe and to tame them from exploding china.

[Lineageholder]

who knows if DL does it secretly and he's just generating all this to let people see how stupid tibetans can be hehe and to tame them from exploding china.

Oh boy, I'm laughing now!    Thanks for the joke!

So now the Dalai Lama may be secretly doing the practice (it has to be in secret because he banned the practice, *wink*) that he has banned and that he speaks out against at every public teaching he gives?

You wonder why I accuse you of illogical and wrong views....thanks for the laugh!

Perhaps the Dalai Lama is also secretly being paid by the Chinese government to keep being incompetent so that the issue of Tibetan independence will never be addressed?

Let's have some more wacky conspiracy theories, everyone!  Brighten my day!

[Ensapa]

who knows if DL does it secretly and he's just generating all this to let people see how stupid tibetans can be hehe and to tame them from exploding china.

Oh boy, I'm laughing now!    Thanks for the joke!

So now the Dalai Lama may be secretly doing the practice (it has to be in secret because he banned the practice, *wink*) that he has banned and that he speaks out against at every public teaching he gives?

You wonder why I accuse you of illogical and wrong views....thanks for the laugh!

Perhaps the Dalai Lama is also secretly being paid by the Chinese government to keep being incompetent so that the issue of Tibetan independence will never be addressed?

Let's have some more wacky conspiracy theories, everyone!  Brighten my day!

your evidence is as good as mine lol. I had a good laugh at your earlier accusations against DL too.

i am still wondering why many high lamas who practice Shudgen still love DL and you dont. Obviously they know the full story haha

have you even talk to any of them? no? I think you should. I talked to many of them so i get a better picture hehe

[DharmaDefender]

who knows if DL does it secretly and he's just generating all this to let people see how stupid tibetans can be hehe and to tame them from exploding china.

Oh boy, I'm laughing now!    Thanks for the joke!

So now the Dalai Lama may be secretly doing the practice (it has to be in secret because he banned the practice, *wink*) that he has banned and that he speaks out against at every public teaching he gives?

You wonder why I accuse you of illogical and wrong views....thanks for the laugh!

Perhaps the Dalai Lama is also secretly being paid by the Chinese government to keep being incompetent so that the issue of Tibetan independence will never be addressed?

Let's have some more wacky conspiracy theories, everyone!  Brighten my day!

your evidence is as good as mine lol. I had a good laugh at your earlier accusations against DL too.

i am still wondering why many high lamas who practice Shudgen still love DL and you dont. Obviously they know the full story haha

have you even talk to any of them? no? I think you should. I talked to many of them so i get a better picture hehe

I did wonder that actually, but never got an answer - why do lamas such as Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche, Ganchen Rinpoche, etc never speak out? How come they only show their love for Dorje Shugden, etc through their actions of practice? Why aren't they the ones hollering in the streets? Surely lamas from Shar Gaden, for example, could come out in force saying no, the Dalai Lama is wrong and we hate him, and loads of people would listen...but they haven't come out like that?

Evidently, someone is going to claim this is more noob stuff and I'm uninformed...so someone please inform me!

[Mohani]

The last time Ganden protested back in the 90's they got attacked. I think the fact that Trijangs teacher was at the Demo's in the UK says something. It is dangerous for tibetans to speak up, look at what the pro DL tibetans did in NY!

[Mohani]

Shar Ganden and Ser pom have been working with the WSS and support what they have done, it has helped them immensly. It has given them the confidence to make a stand and know they have support from people around the world. Not everyone needs to make a loud noise in the street to be helping, but making a loud noise has helped.

[Lineageholder]

Everyone knows everyone else in the Tibetan community.

I heard that there was a Tibetan monk at the WSS protests whose brother owned a restaurant in NY frequented by the Tibetan community.  The Tibetans on the Dalai Lama's side were going around taking pictures of the protestors, and this guy was identified.

The Tibetan community in NY boycotted the brother's restaurant, and as a result he soon went out of business.  If you are publicy seen to disagree with the Dalai Lama, these things happen.  Even the Panchen Lama had to flee Tibet because of a disagreement with the 13th Dalai Lama.

This is just one example of the evil that this ban has led to and how it is impossible to be within the Tibetan community and oppose the Dalai Lama without very severe penalties.

[LosangKhyentse]

Mohani is right. The last time the monks 'protested' peacefully in Gaden in the 90's they were severely attacked by the lay ppl with stones, curses, sticks and breaking of windows. Many had to be taken to the clinic. As scary as it sounds, monks were attacked by the lay people surrounding Gaden. Gaden is in Mundgod Tibetan Settlement which at that time had around 14-16,000 Tibetans of which Gaden made up 3,300 of the population. Drepung nearby made up around 4,000 monks. So the remaining other half are lay ppl who were incited by the representative of Dalai Lama to attack the monks. I have close friends who were there.

There are 24 official Tibetan Settlements throughout India. Each settlement has an office where a Tibetan Govt official is chosen to 'run' each settlement and report back to the Tibetan Govt in exile in Dharamsala. Any orders, news or announcements from Dharamsala is disseminated through these representatives in each of the settlements. So The representative of Mundgod settlement encouraged the ppl to rally AGAINST THE MONKS WHO WERE PROTESTING AGAINST THE BAN PEACEABLY. Of course the Tibetan Govt in exile condoned the Mundgod representative's actions because they gave the order to do so.

So peaceful or any protests about taboo subjects such as the Tibetan Govt's corruption, inability to get autonomy for Tibet, biasness, Dorje Shugden IS NOT ALLOWED. The Tibetan Govt in Exile's definition of Democracy is very different to say the least. Actually everything is handpicked and chosen by the Dalai Lama himself. Even the abbots of each Sera, Drepung, Gaden, Gyuto, Gyurme, Namgyal, Nechung are all chosen directly by the Dalai Lama himself. All the abbots these days MUST FALL IN LINE WITH HIS POLICIES OR THEY WILL BE ASKED TO REMOVE THEMSELVES AS IN THE CASES OF THE PREVIOUS ABBOTS OF BOTH GADEN SHARTSE AND JANGTSE. Hence the 101st Gaden Tripa defected to Shar Gaden Monastery AFTER HIS 7 YEAR TERM AS TRIPA ENDED.

Protests against pervailing policies by Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt are a ABSOLUTE NO-NO. Clear example is no one is allowed within Tibetan community to say 'When I grow up I wish to be the president, next Dalai Lama or Prime Minister' as that would be tantamount to treason. Hence, they have a huge dilemma. The Dalai Lama has been in power for the last 50+ years. No one is allowed to be groomed to be the next leader, because it is inconcievable another person can be or allowed to replace the Dalai Lama. Only his 'enlightened' rule can save Tibet. The irony is that Tibet has lost it's country and not getting it back in the near future. Buddhists would believe it is the karmic fate of the country and that is what I believe. But having said  that, many would also say, other countries like the G-7 are run by democratically elected heads and they are doing fine. So why isn't Tibet doing fine??


See the video of The Tibetan Govt Representative of Mundgod inciting the laypeople/and Drepung monks to attack the Shugden monks of Gaden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCPQastwZW8
	Small | Large

[thor]

Shar Ganden and Ser pom have been working with the WSS and support what they have done, it has helped them immensly. It has given them the confidence to make a stand and know they have support from people around the world. Not everyone needs to make a loud noise in the street to be helping, but making a loud noise has helped.

Individual DS monks have been attacked but not as an entity. Is the support of the WSS the reason why Shar Ganden and Serpom have not been picketed or stoned? Why does WSS support make a difference.

[zamzam24388]

Nothing wrong is saying you don't practice than to come out to say you DO practice and then do all the wrong things which does not go well with a dharma practitioner.  Be like the High Lamas, spread dharma by your actions.

[crazycloud]

Nothing wrong is saying you don't practice than to come out to say you DO practice and then do all the wrong things which does not go well with a dharma practitioner.  Be like the High Lamas, spread dharma by your actions.

Anyone urging someone else to "do like high Lama" should be able to take his own advice.

YOU do like high lama, give your advice to those who request it and are interested in it.

[Ensapa]

Mohani is right. The last time the monks 'protested' peacefully in Gaden in the 90's they were severely attacked by the lay ppl with stones, curses, sticks and breaking of windows. Many had to be taken to the clinic. As scary as it sounds, monks were attacked by the lay people surrounding Gaden. Gaden is in Mundgod Tibetan Settlement which at that time had around 14-16,000 Tibetans of which Gaden made up 3,300 of the population. Drepung nearby made up around 4,000 monks. So the remaining other half are lay ppl who were incited by the representative of Dalai Lama to attack the monks. I have close friends who were there.

There are 24 official Tibetan Settlements throughout India. Each settlement has an office where a Tibetan Govt official is chosen to 'run' each settlement and report back to the Tibetan Govt in exile in Dharamsala. Any orders, news or announcements from Dharamsala is disseminated through these representatives in each of the settlements. So The representative of Mundgod settlement encouraged the ppl to rally AGAINST THE MONKS WHO WERE PROTESTING AGAINST THE BAN PEACEABLY. Of course the Tibetan Govt in exile condoned the Mundgod representative's actions because they gave the order to do so.

So peaceful or any protests about taboo subjects such as the Tibetan Govt's corruption, inability to get autonomy for Tibet, biasness, Dorje Shugden IS NOT ALLOWED. The Tibetan Govt in Exile's definition of Democracy is very different to say the least. Actually everything is handpicked and chosen by the Dalai Lama himself. Even the abbots of each Sera, Drepung, Gaden, Gyuto, Gyurme, Namgyal, Nechung are all chosen directly by the Dalai Lama himself. All the abbots these days MUST FALL IN LINE WITH HIS POLICIES OR THEY WILL BE ASKED TO REMOVE THEMSELVES AS IN THE CASES OF THE PREVIOUS ABBOTS OF BOTH GADEN SHARTSE AND JANGTSE. Hence the 101st Gaden Tripa defected to Shar Gaden Monastery AFTER HIS 7 YEAR TERM AS TRIPA ENDED.

Protests against pervailing policies by Dalai Lama and Tibetan Govt are a ABSOLUTE NO-NO. Clear example is no one is allowed within Tibetan community to say 'When I grow up I wish to be the president, next Dalai Lama or Prime Minister' as that would be tantamount to treason. Hence, they have a huge dilemma. The Dalai Lama has been in power for the last 50+ years. No one is allowed to be groomed to be the next leader, because it is inconcievable another person can be or allowed to replace the Dalai Lama. Only his 'enlightened' rule can save Tibet. The irony is that Tibet has lost it's country and not getting it back in the near future. Buddhists would believe it is the karmic fate of the country and that is what I believe. But having said  that, many would also say, other countries like the G-7 are run by democratically elected heads and they are doing fine. So why isn't Tibet doing fine??

because tibet has lots of hard headed and stubborn tibetans. they have a tendency to twist words and misinterpret situations and any attempt to correct it would be faced with huge resistance and even hostility.

DL himself has said he no longer wants to lead the parliament, but knowing how the tibetans are.....

Remember how the kagyus misintepreted and grossly twisted Trijang Rinpoche's words as being anti kagyu when he merely said Gelug teachings are pure? thats how unbelivably twisted these tibetan people are. Sadly this influence has spread to the west, and kunga namdrol of e-sangha is a prominent example.

[honeydakini]

I think for many it would be considered quite a grave untruth to proclaim publically that they do not practice because the practice itself is a commitment they may have made to their lamas to uphold and practice for the rest of their lives. It may feel like you are lying or going against your word if you say that you "do not practice".

However, I do think that it's not as simple as just saying you practice or you don't. Of course, you need to consider what the results would be of saying that you practice or not - does it bring the benefit that you hope it will? Or create more damage? For some people, saying that they practice may implicate a lot of other people such as their own Dharma community/ sangha or even their Lamas who may not be openly practising. Perhaps you strike a middleway instead where you don't go around proclaiming you don't do it, but answer only if asked. And even then you can evade the question by not answering directly "no i don't practice" but you could say something in a roundabout way like "the dharma protector of our Dharma centre which I follow is XYZ" - which isn't to say that you DON'T ALSO practice DS! haha!

[thor]

I think for many it would be considered quite a grave untruth to proclaim publically that they do not practice because the practice itself is a commitment they may have made to their lamas to uphold and practice for the rest of their lives. It may feel like you are lying or going against your word if you say that you "do not practice".

This has always concerned me.
1) Once someone has taken commitments and vows to uphold this practice, how can they abandon it without collecting heavy negative karma?
2) As for the monks who have sworn in to give up the practice of Dorje Shugden yet continue to practise in secret, they are breaking their sworn promise not to practice! More negative karma?
3) And those who do swear in and who do give up their sacred protector practice, how can you unswear your vows and commitments to your root lama by swearing to another protector?
This whole swearing in process has become a farcical affair that the monks are forced to endure.