The silence of Dalailamaites

[a friend]

The Charitable Society sent a link to an article in GlobalComment about Google and other sinophobes. We are foreign to the opinions of the writer but he brings up our issue. Also at the end some people give comments about the WSS's book. The info is a little bit old so I apologize if you read it. If you don't want to read the whole article, you have the paragraph concerning the Protector's issue below.
If you want to read on, here is the link:http://globalcomment.com/2010/from-google-to-free-tibet-an-image-of-big-bad-horrific-china/ 

For all the Free Tibet-love in the West, remarkably few Dalai Lamaites seem to understand that the Tibetan regime was on perfectly good terms with China for years. In fact, it only started complaining years after the Chinese arrived. By a not entirely unsurprising coincidence, the Tibetan theocrats who claim the Dalai Lama is literally God only started to complain when China began to build roads and schools, opening their Medievalist Shangri La to development and, horror of horrors, the outside world.
Western celebrities have been notably silent on the issue of the persecution of Tibetan Buddhists who worship the deity Dorje Shugden. Perhaps it’s because it happened in India – and was orchestrated by followers of the Dalai Lama rather than by “communist China.”

[DharmaDefender]

The Charitable Society sent a link to an article in GlobalComment about Google and other sinophobes. We are foreign to the opinions of the writer but he brings up our issue. Also at the end some people give comments about the WSS's book. The info is a little bit old so I apologize if you read it. If you don't want to read the whole article, you have the paragraph concerning the Protector's issue below.
If you want to read on, here is the link:http://globalcomment.com/2010/from-google-to-free-tibet-an-image-of-big-bad-horrific-china/ 

For all the Free Tibet-love in the West, remarkably few Dalai Lamaites seem to understand that the Tibetan regime was on perfectly good terms with China for years. In fact, it only started complaining years after the Chinese arrived. By a not entirely unsurprising coincidence, the Tibetan theocrats who claim the Dalai Lama is literally God only started to complain when China began to build roads and schools, opening their Medievalist Shangri La to development and, horror of horrors, the outside world.
Western celebrities have been notably silent on the issue of the persecution of Tibetan Buddhists who worship the deity Dorje Shugden. Perhaps it’s because it happened in India – and was orchestrated by followers of the Dalai Lama rather than by “communist China.”

I think it's probably because they understand so little about the religion, they feel it would look stupid for them to comment on it. It's comparatively easier to comment on a purely political issue (i.e. independence) because it's something everyone understands and has had to go through at some point.

Plus, the issue of independence affects more countries - China polluting rivers and glaciers in Tibet, for example, affects many major rivers in Asia - whereas Dorje Shugden only really affects Tibetans, Dorje Shugden practitioners and / or Buddhists in general.

Having said that, 'Free Tibet' has become very fashionable now, hasn't it? Something to add to your portfolio to make it look like you care. Unless a celebrity has done something of note, and has a history of speaking with sense, I'm disinclined to listen to them because it just looks like they're hopping on the latest bandwagon.

[Ensapa]

free tibet is just a fad. most people who join the whole free tibet fiasco dont even know how horrible old tibet is, or how stubborn, shallow and stupid the current one is. in fact many of them glorify tibetans as if they're the best race in the world which is sad and funny.

[thor]

Western celebrities have been notably silent on the issue of the persecution of Tibetan Buddhists who worship the deity Dorje Shugden. Perhaps it’s because it happened in India – and was orchestrated by followers of the Dalai Lama rather than by “communist China.”[/color]

So what if it was orchestrated by DL's followers? It's easy for DL to distance himself from the doings of his followers IN WESTERN THINKING, because not many will truly understand the power and influence of the "God-King" amongst Tibetans.

More likely is that Dalai Lama is dangerous PR territory for western celebrities and no one wants to be the first to step in the mud. I pray that some celebrities start practising Shugden, that would be a stronger endorsement and support for Shugden's practice to grow than just dissing Dalai Lama

[crazycloud]

More likely is that Dalai Lama is dangerous PR territory for western celebrities and no one wants to be the first to step in the mud. I pray that some celebrities start practising Shugden, that would be a stronger endorsement and support for Shugden's practice to grow than just dissing Dalai Lama

No one takes "dissing" the Dalai Lama lightly. If the power of his perfidious speech is not undermined, he will continue destroying the spiritual lineage of his teachers. People here seem to enjoy going on about his power to reach the millions, but fail to realize he is extending a rotten branch. A Tantric Dharma without lineage will not hold their weight, and it is deceptive in the extreme. It will be the end of Vajrayana Dharma in this world if he succeeds, which fortunately, he will not.

free tibet is just a fad. most people who join the whole free tibet fiasco dont even know how horrible old tibet is, or how stubborn, shallow and stupid the current one is. in fact many of them glorify tibetans as if they're the best race in the world which is sad and funny.

Look at that, I agree with Ensapa. Will wonders never cease?

[WisdomBeing]

Please read this recent post by TK on http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0

It raises very interesting points about the inherent contradictions of the 14th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden, Kache Marpo and Nechung. Very good reading. Contemplate THAT!

Happy Losar! 

[Ensapa]

More likely is that Dalai Lama is dangerous PR territory for western celebrities and no one wants to be the first to step in the mud. I pray that some celebrities start practising Shugden, that would be a stronger endorsement and support for Shugden's practice to grow than just dissing Dalai Lama

No one takes "dissing" the Dalai Lama lightly. If the power of his perfidious speech is not undermined, he will continue destroying the spiritual lineage of his teachers. People here seem to enjoy going on about his power to reach the millions, but fail to realize he is extending a rotten branch. A Tantric Dharma without lineage will not hold their weight, and it is deceptive in the extreme. It will be the end of Vajrayana Dharma in this world if he succeeds, which fortunately, he will not.

free tibet is just a fad. most people who join the whole free tibet fiasco dont even know how horrible old tibet is, or how stubborn, shallow and stupid the current one is. in fact many of them glorify tibetans as if they're the best race in the world which is sad and funny.

Look at that, I agree with Ensapa. Will wonders never cease?

yeah, even now the Tibetans or westerners that are into the whole free Tibet campaign do not have a solid impression of Tibet that reflects the real situation. All they see is the negative side but they completely ignore the development done by the Chinese in Tibet and how they have allowed temples to flourish. I think there is a limit to being one sided here, but to jump into something that one barely knows about thanks to one sided propaganda is pretty much crazy. people have to realize that the CTA is not perfect and the Tibetans are not perfect too and show that they are aware of that, but you dont see that happening with the free Tibet people, especially the westerners.

[Rinchen]

free tibet is just a fad. most people who join the whole free tibet fiasco dont even know how horrible old tibet is, or how stubborn, shallow and stupid the current one is. in fact many of them glorify tibetans as if they're the best race in the world which is sad and funny.

I feel that why they want to free Tibet is because they would like to have control over their own "country" themselves, instead of following what the China government have for them.

This is why some of the Tibetans now are also wanting a change in their governing system.

[Q]

The westerners will never understand Tibetan society or issues, just as they will never understand the culture behind Bride kidnapping in Khazakhstan. Not that I'm saying it's bad but... you get the picture.

Basically, I think they never really brought the issue of Dorje Shugden up because most westerners realize the situation is directly related to suppression of religious freedom but due to their reverence towards the Dalai Lama along with their inability to understand the full issue, they decide to just turn a blind eye towards it.

[Ensapa]

The westerners will never understand Tibetan society or issues, just as they will never understand the culture behind Bride kidnapping in Khazakhstan. Not that I'm saying it's bad but... you get the picture.

Basically, I think they never really brought the issue of Dorje Shugden up because most westerners realize the situation is directly related to suppression of religious freedom but due to their reverence towards the Dalai Lama along with their inability to understand the full issue, they decide to just turn a blind eye towards it.

I think it is pretty sad that most westerners go into a state of denial with regards the Dorje Shugden issue and gloss it it over and think that it is okay for the ban to go on, but the biggest lie that they seem to repeat to themselves is that nobody is getting discriminated due to the ban and that nobody is being oppressed, and nobody is being victimzed and that video footage and evidence that has those are fake. Some even go to as far as claiming to go to Dharamsala and finding nothing of this sort and saying that the Dorje Shugden practitioners are the ones who act violently.

In all seriousness, this has to seriously stop.

[Tenzin Gyatso]

There is no ban, just a compassionate suggestion from HH to stop all this worship of non-Buddha entities. Nothing wrong with that.

Are you a greater scholar and master than HH that you can say he is wrong and you are right?

 

[Rinchen]

There is no ban, just a compassionate suggestion from HH to stop all this worship of non-Buddha entities. Nothing wrong with that.

Are you a greater scholar and master than HH that you can say he is wrong and you are right?

 

We are not a great scholar to say that, but I think maybe his guru would be a master that would be able to say that DS is not an worldly being. And since the 5th DL composed a prayer for DS, I guess that would also mean something?

Yes, DL is able to make a compassionate request, but how his followers take it, then it is a different ball game all together. Is just like when DL made the request, why are there so many assassins out there to silence influential  DS monks that give teachings to people to also spread the dharma just like DL himself?

Just saying what I think. A thought to think about.

[brian]

If there is really no ban on DS practice why would all anti-Shugden practitioners harm the Shugden devotees in the first place. I have seen too many evidences on the discrimination and hardships suffered by innocent Shugden devotees. How would some westerners claim there are no such unfair harsh treatments made? I sincerely request the Dalai Lama to clear the air if there is really no ban on the practice. No more compassion for me if you do not even want to make it clear to avoid further confusion among the Buddhists.

[Blueupali]

If there is no ban, please explain to me how they can get discrimation to happen if the person openly admits to praying to Shugden?
  How exactly does it work that we can't have 'Shugdens' in shops that Tibetans own--- except around places where the lamas are helping with peace and harmony and treating other Buddhists like humans (Penor Rinpoche's disciples, for example).
  So sure the Dalai Lama can ask his own disciples to do whatever prayers--- but we don't have to shun and discriminate against people who aren't his disciples.
  I didn't want to go to the Dalai Lama's teachings anyway, so he didn't have to ask me twice on that....
 

[Ensapa]

There is no ban, just a compassionate suggestion from HH to stop all this worship of non-Buddha entities. Nothing wrong with that.

Are you a greater scholar and master than HH that you can say he is wrong and you are right?

 

But the 5th Dalai Lama said that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened protector. And the 11th Dalai Lama enthroned Dorje Shugden as the principal protector of Tibet. Can what the 14th Dalai Lama said overwrite what his predecessors have said? Also, I dont think that the Dalai Lama, no matter how great of a scholar or master he is is greater that his own Gurus, Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche, who both advocates Dorje Shugden. If that was true, then why would we need to hold Guru devotion? Would my questions be answered, please?