• May 14, 1995 – Tsangpa Oracle Prophesy I
"It is important that Tibetans should observe their commitments (dam.tsig) which is their obligation. Particularly, the issue of Gyalchen [Dorje Shugden] is a bad omen. In this direction, we, the formless, are aware that it does not harbor good.
Ha ha! This sounds so fake! "we, the formless....." Goodness...!
Imagine Je Tsongkhapa consulting oracles in this way! Absurd!
People, break your addiction to Tibeatna politics oracles, tulkus and ridiculous fantasies about how protectors function!
Nevertheless, it is our serious concern that there needs to be strict adherence to the wishes of His Holiness and internal unity. Whether it be the People's Deputies or an ordinary Tibetan, it is unacceptable for anyone to engage in partisan politics.
really now.
Dear everyone,
This article above is very powerful. I will share my thoughts and comments on the article. It is what I have believed also for the last decade and a half, and it concurs with the prophesy from Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche in the late 70's. Which is in the future, it may look like Dalai lama is at odds with Dorje Shugden, but in actuality they are helping eachother to make Buddha Dharma grow in the world.
unfortunately, this eruption of power politics into the BuddhaDharma shames all Buddhists, and decreases respect for the Dharma worldwide. People as disgusted with this.
1. Dorje Shugden acts in the Bodhisattva manner accepting criticisms, hate campaigns and the 'destruction' of his practice. Why? Because it serves a bigger purpose for the overall survival of Buddhism in the world for the future. Why? It is easier to resurrect or do a Lazarus on Dorje Shugden in the future when the smoke clears, than it would be for the Dalai lama. The Dalai lama is a man and controlled by media, opinions, ppl, circumstances. But Dorje Shugden is a formless entity that can 'rise' above all of that very quickly when the time is right.
This is just a theory. In general, you have no idea if Dorje Shugden accepts any of this. What do you expect, that he might log on to this forum and state his opinion? Are you waiting on baited breath for the next revelation from an oracle, whose pronouncements you cannot verify? A protector can only work with the karma of those who are involved, that is why the ridiculous statements you read here and elsewhere as to Dorje Shugden's action have no relevance whatsoever. You simply don't know what they are, as you are not able to recognize his blessings and emanations.
2. Whenever Dorje Shugden takes trance in any of the oracles, he never criticizes the Dalai Lama and in fact tells the audience to always withhold criticism towards Dalai Lama. He can say nothing about the Dalai Lama and just keep quiet. Dorje Shugden is well known to not answer questions that has little meaning, insignificant, or unacceptable to the listener. When questions are presented to him through the oracle, he often skips through questions that should not be answered at this time or has no meaning.
Again, you have no idea what is actually going on here, this is all mere supposition, attractive only to those who already subscribe to this theory.
Please don't bother with "the HIGH LAMAS trust the oracles..." most keep quiet and go along for a variety of reasons. The stories about the thirteenth and fourteenth Dalai Lamas taking disastrous advice form oracles abound, so it is clear that many if not most of these lamas are just as in the dark as the rest of us.
It's time for Tibeatan Buddhism to grow up, and what we are experiencing now are the growing pains. Bye bye, oracles, it was fun, but unreliable and ultimately destructive, while it lasted.....
3.All the the destruction happening against him, he never makes comments, speaks against nor advices undharmic actions. Because it can all be fully reversed in a short time when the time is right.
see above.
4. Temporarily Dorje Shugden will accept the name AS THE CAUSE FOR THE LOSS OF TIBET, OR THE CAUSE WHY TIBET CANNOT BE REGAINED BACK, but in the end truth will arise. Dorje Shugden will reveal the true plot which Trijang Rinpoche already hinted at in the late 70's. ( I fold my hands to Trijang Rinpoche and prostrate my full body to Him. I offer my head as a stepping block for his feet. I truly have confidence in this great being. )
Very romantic. I.... uh...offer my heart and blood to the glorious radiant blazing splendour of the impossibly magnificent uh... inconceivable gurus uh...
we ALL have confidence in Trijang Rinpoche here.
“Even these days, some suspect those who rely upon and propitiate Gyalchen (Dorje Shugden) of conjuring ghosts, but it is the babbling talk of those who don’t understand the definitive meaning.” - Trijang Dorjechang
Have some confidence in
that.
the rest, again is just your supposition. "then later on, the DL will apologize and the protector practice will be raised as a victory banner for all beings...."
yeah, maybe. I prefer to work towards it rather than pretending the celestials will take care of everything if I just keep quiet and stay in my place.....
5. Dorje Shugden is strong enough to carry such a burden. Dorje Shugden practitioners are resilient enough to not abandon his practice during this crisis. Both Dorje Shugden and his true followers will not abandon eachother no matter what is said and done temporarily at this time. Both can carry the burden. I personally do not dislike, hate the Dalai Lama but have confidence in him and my own sacred protector Dorje Shugden. I choose to believe and take refuge in Trijang Rinpoche's prophecy. The other two options of hating Dalai lama and abandoning Dorje Shugden are not open to me nor would I choose any of the two options.
tk, come on now.
It is not appropriate to pretend you have not seen yourself the destruction this politicking has casued. Monks in their 70's and 80's weeping openly and saying "I wish I had died before this happened" is just the tip of the iceberg. Families destroyed, moasteries ripped in half, brother turned against brother, people burned and stoned out of their homes......
I'm glad you have been able to keep up with your practice, but it needs to be admitted that many who were not as strong (or as far from the reach of mobs incited by the TGIE) as you have had their spiritual and material lives destoyed.
The options of hating the DL or giving up the protector are not open to any of us here, we are Mahayana Buddhists. Please see beyond the extremes and realize there are more than two options here, and please try to see that you can speak out against injustice without hate. It might be worth a separate discussion as to why this is so difficult for some here to understand..... addiction to social approval? Fear of their own deeply repressed rage? Sentimental compassion that can only accept "nice" talk and smilies as compassionate? I'm sure there are many possibilities.....
6. Why would Dalai Lama act, talk and promote so many contradictory actions that makes himself look unstable. Unless it was on purpose. I believe that truly. He is not stupid.
He may be stupid, he may not be stupid, personally, I have no idea. It is entirely possible that a man who has been prostrated to since he was a baby and has no apparatus to deal with those who disagree with him, might become ...angry? Ypour precious oracle above said that "Gyalwa Rinpoche became angry...." In such a situation. Everyone knows that the angry man makes many bad decisions and acts against the interest of all.
Maybe he is lost in a fantasy about Tibet and himself that he cannot find his way out of. Really, no-one here knows.
Why would he make so many contradictory statements and actions that make him look unstable? \
Maybe he is unstable. Personally, that would be my guess, but again, who knows? No point trying to divine a hiugher purpose based on your own confused judgements (no insult intened, these judegements are common to all us Samsara types...)
7. If Kache Marpo has 'destroyed' lamas/ppl/practitioners in the past for breaking the samaya or polluting the yellow hat teachings, then why is Samdhong Rinpoche, Kashag, Kalons, Ministers, Kunga Tara, and even the Dalai Lama himself are spared? Unless there is a much bigger soup brewing.
If you take everytime you can't explain something as evidence of your theory, soon you will be living in a hall of mirrors. There are countless reasons this could be the case, for example Dorje Shugden ( and Kache MArpo) don't kill people. "What about the yellow book?" you ask? Perhaps it was meant for a certain reason. Perahps it was superstitious nonsense, who knows? Not me, not you.
It seems to me the only soup that is brewing is the one you are making of your own ingredients, and it doesn't smell very appetizing to me....
8. Nechung is the one who requested Dulzin Drakpa Gyeltsen to arise as a uncommon Protector to protect Nagarjuna's view as embodied within Lama Tsongkapa's lineage only 350 years ago. Why would the same Nechung be talking the opposite. Unless there was a larger plan between Dorje Shugden, Dalai lama and Nechung. Seems like a hopeful fantasy? Well to many more, the idea of a dharma protector or Dorje Shugden themselves are fantasies made up by the Tibetan Lamas.
Oh dear.
Is it the same Nechung, tk? From where in the world would you derive information to that effect? Do you really feel confident that you know what Nechung thinks? maybe a local wordly spirit has entered the Nechung oracle, of which tere are apparently many, some more stable than others? Belief in Oracles and Tulkus in an uncritical way will be the end of Tibetan Buddhism in this world.
yes, it seems like a hopeful fantasy, very much so.
The idea that there are Protectors seems like a hopeful fantasy to some, I have no doubt, but the idea that something seems like a hopeful fantasy to someone somewhere has no bearing whatsoever as to wheter or not it is true. I'm sure there are people that believe that the moon landing is a hopeful fantasy. and yet, it happened, didin't it?
Tk, do you get my point? This is very very poor logic, and should embarass someone of your intelligence, evidneced elsewhere on this forum over and over again.
9.If Dorje Shugden is so powerful (which he is), why doesn't he do something to stop all this. Perhaps it is not time to 'stop' all this yet. In fact, Dorje Shugden is putting his followers through 'hell and back' (excuse me) and we have to just take it. Yes we will 'take' it. There has to be a much bigger game plan. Dorje Shugden takes the blame, Dalai lama works hard to make the Buddha Dharma grow while all the elite lamas and teachers are young.
Once again, this is a theory, not at all a fact, as you state above. Why doesn't he do something to stop this? Again, please stop tjhinking that Dharma protectors function like superman, flying in to save us. Why didn't the protectors stop Langdarma? Why didn't the protectors stop the moghuls from wiping out Buddhism in india? Why didn't the protectors stop the Chinese? why don't the protectors do my laundry? we seriously need to outgrow this type of thinking.
. If Dalai lama is so powerful (which he is), why doesn't he just do a binding ritual or fire puja himself and rid the planet/samsara of this horrible demented being called Jamgon Gyelway Tensung Gyelpo Dorje Shugden. And then stop spending so much time, money, heartaches, energy, resources to keep going against Dorje Shugden???!!! Just get rid of him ONCE AND FOR ALL. THE END. Because the Dalai Lama cannot destroy a being who has actualized the complete path of Guhyasamaja in both completion/generation stages or in other words a Buddha. Dalai lama cannot destroy Buddha Dorje Shugden who is one with Guhyasamaja and the 32 deities of his mandala are the same 32 deities as in Guhyasamaja's entourage.
now that actually makes some sense. He doesn't bind Dorje Shugden because he can't. IOt seems he believes he can bind the followers of Dorjke Shugden using his honeyed speech and his political power, and he will be right if many here have there way and get everyone to adopt this magical view that we are all pals nad that noone should disagree.
So for the bigger purpose, the Dalai Lama has TO PUT THE BLAME OF ALL THE ILLS OF TIBET'S MISFORTUNE ONTO DORJE SHUGDEN WHO IS STRONG ENOUGH TO SHOULDER THIS. Dorje Shugden plays the bad guy for now.
This is all politics, in fact
no one blamed the DL for the loss of Tibet, his followers and most of the rest of the world are GaGa over this strange man. It is a false premise leading to a false conclusion, tailor-made to support an impoverished nicey-nice position. the intellignet would never go for this unless under the sway of some deep emotional need.
If it is blamed onto the Dalai Lama, it would spoil his reputation to spread dharma on the global scale which is what he is doing now. Planting seeds of dharma on the global scale, ripe for the young lamas to take over later as well as Dorje Shugden.
You vastly overestimate the Dalai Lama's ability to spread the Dharma, he only spreads tibetan politics. All of those who like the DL's teachings that I know are diletannte's, they have no actual teacher and no lineage.
The ills of Tibet are not Dalai lama or Dorje Shugden's fault, but the Tibetan ppls' own fault.
Agreed
Sounds cliche, but it is true and easier to get through the storm with this way of thinking.
it does sound cliche, and I think this view directly contributes to the loss of Dharma in this world. No offense intended, I think most who hold this view are well-meaning, as I was when I believed this stuff. The Dalai Lama himself helped me out of that one.
10. If Dalai lama loses his reputation because he is the 'cause' for the loss of Tibet, then it would stain his reputation greatly and that would hinder to say the least, his promotion of the BuddhaDharma around the world. No lama of any tradition can match the skills, the persona, the knowledge, the title, and the charisma of Dalai lama to spread Buddhism so far and wide around the world.
Oh wow. Really? Ot my view, noone can match how skilfull the DL is at destroying Buddhism around the world. huh. I guess we see this one differently. I centainly agree that to superficial appeaances, the DL speads Dhama, but this dharma is contaminated by his abandonment and excoriation of lineage, so this dharma is stillborn, sterile, and inert.
11. Why can't the Tibetan Govt and various Monasteries destroy Dorje Shugden through binding rituals? Because they have tried and it shows the power of Dorje Shugden purposely. Hence to keep this power in mind, when later ppl will remember this power when they re-adopt Dorje Shugden's practice later. To leave a mark in ppl's minds that DORJE SHUGDEN CANNOT BE DEFEATED OR DESTROYED.
Yes, they are showing Dorje Shugden's power by destroying the spiritual and material lives of thousands and thousands of people. This view is deeply unkind and saddens my heart.
12. Why is Trijang Rinpoche allowed to practice Dorje Shugden if it harms the cause of Tibet and brings danger to the Dalai lama's life? Because it leaves a mark for the future, to bring up the point that Dorje Shugden does not hinder Tibet or Dalai Lama. These are small traces of hints left by the Dalai Lama for the SURVIVAL OF DORJE SHUGDEN. Someone has to take the blame. That is samsara.
Why did Trijang Chogtrul run away to Vermont and disrobe? The Dalai Lama only ever intended to let TR practice for a while, he states his intention to check again in the future (the Omniscient one gets out his doughballs aagin....) . I'm sure for the young lama this was ominous enough. Everyone can see wherer the DL is headed with this, why not you?
Traces of hints? You are surely grasping at straws. No need to did around in the dirt for traces when the truth fills the whole world.
13. Why does Dorje Shugden himself 'SIT ON THE FENCE?' Meaning, he says on one hand to respect and follow what the Dalai Lama says, but on the other hand, he told the Shar Gaden Monks that if their motivation for opening Shar Gaden was for the growth and preservation of the lineage, then it will be auspicious in the future. Doesn't that look contradictory. C'mon, which one is it Dorje Shugden? Clear it for us. So if we were to follow what the Dalai Lama says, why open Shar Gaden and Serpom Monastery? If we were to follow what Dorje Shugden says, then why be on this forum as he says to respect the Dalai lama always.
For you, your lama and lineage is Dorje Shugden. No need to search around the internet for scraps. the way you lay it out above, either we need to be against the opening of Shar G and Serpom N, or get off the forum.
Yet again, pointing out someones political mistakes is not necessarily respecting them. Even friends point out the flaws of friends as an act of love when they see that those flaws will destroy them. This is like that.
Should we open Shar Gaden which 'opposes' the Dalai Lama or should we listen to the Dalai lama and abandon Dorje Shugden's practice? Even the great Dorje Shugden sounds contradictory.
you have confused yourself. Do you really think Dorje shugden said "listen to the Dalai Lama and abandon the practice of Dorje Shugden?" You seem to be all tangled up in your hopes.
Why does Dorje Shugden continuously take trance and give advice even to those who do not give their allegiance up to Dalai lama while practicing Dorje Shugden at the same time? Doesn't that damage the samaya of the individual with Dorje Shugden or with the lama who initiated them into Dorje Shugden's practice? Whichever way you look at it, you damage the samaya with your guru or protector.
Focus less on oracles andf this will be less confusing for you.
Zong Rinpoche (previous), Dagom Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche,Geshe Tendar, current Trijang Rinpoche, current Zong Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten, current Pabongka, Gonsar Rinpoche, the oracle monks, Gangchen Rinpoche, Lama Yeshe, Geshe Tsultrim Gyeltsen, etc etc all took teachings from the 14th Dalai Lama, let's not forget, at once time or another. So if we have taken teachings from the above lamas, then 14th Dalai lama is also our lineage lama which we must respect. Logical?
not logical. What do you do when you have conflicting advice from your gurus? This happens. You need to follow your root guru, and in doing so, you keep all your comittments. If one were to follow your suggested 'logical' style of doing things, one would surely be forced to break samaya. This would render the Vajrayana meaningless.
Since we say the Dalai lama must respect our lineage lamas such as Pabongka, then we must also reverse the situation and respect the Dalai lama as our lineage lama. So either way, the system is set up for you to 'lose'. If that is the case, there must be a MUCH BIGGER PICTURE that current infractions with our lineage lamas can be repaired later FOR THE BIGGER PICTURE.
tk, one's respect for one's root guru, and the need to follow the DL's advice because some of our teachers (for example Trijang Rinpoche) were present at the DL's teachings are completely different. If my teacher got the empwerment of Heruka from trijang Rinpoche, who got it from Je Pabonkha etc etc, and the DL gave a teaching on the six perfections (that he initially received from Trijang Ripnpoche, incidentally), this does not make DL my lineage Lama, and can never in any way override my responsibility to keep my heart commitments to my spritual guide.
the fact that this 'contradiction' makes it seem to you that some mysterious thing is going on and your conclusion is that the DL is a good friend for slandering your lineage lamas makes me think you need to further your education.
After all with or without the Dalai Lama/Dorje Shugden current state affairs, we were doing a great job collecting negative karma, breaking commitments, and generally creating the causes for our personal samsaras to remain intact and strong on our own.
Ha ha ! Finally we agree unreservedly! i'm glad I have perservered!
Yes the Dalai lama does look like he contradicts himelf always. But so does Dorje Shugden.
only according to the unreliable.
Yes, it is nearly cooked.
It seems I've lost my appetite.
It is best to have respect for the Dalai lama and keep our practices towards Dorje Shugden steady.
Whatever the case, if we go to Dalai lama's camp or we go to Dorje Shugden's camp, we go against lineage lamas.
Utterly false as shown above. How could you break samaya by practicing the protector of your guru's words?!?
So best is to keep an equilibrium by thinking things out logically, following the law of cause and effect, engage in our practices to develop attainments within our continuum. With the great attainment we win freedom totally and no disprespect intended, but we won't need Dalai Lama, Buddha, Dorje Shugden or anyone. And that is their original intention.
lovely. I think we all agree there.
I have stated my thoughts at this time and I SINCERLEY HOPE THIS WILL BRING PEACE/UNDERSTANDING TO THE MANY PRACTITONERS THAT VISIT THIS GREAT WEBSITE. With my thoughts, I wish to offend no one, or be right. It is just my attempt to think and reason things out at this time when no many other options are available. Again, I will NEVER GIVE UP MY DORJE SHUGDEN COMMITMENTS AND TO THE LAMAS WHO GAVE ME THE PRACTICES.
yeah! me too!
Nor will I demean and hate His Holiness the Dalai Lama. I will not hate those against Dorje Shugden and forgive them.
]
I won't either, unless demeaning the DL means disagreeing with him either publically or privately, when he says harmful an hurtful and destructive things. In that case, no one is immune from criticism.
Much success to all,
Tk
Thanks, same to you! 
