Dear CRAZY CLOUD, ATISHA'S COOK etc,
I must apologise for reacting so hastily and i am sorry if I have come across as also being belligerent (falling into my own trap!). Thank you for taking the time to respond to my posts, especially CRAZY CLOUD; I appreciate it. I do understand your points that you are not against the Dalai Lama, per say, but against his actions, and I do also agree very much that the actual facts of what is happening must not be ignored. I actively share and promote this website to others because I do very much appreciate the accounts that are given of what is really going. And it is most definitely necessary for the world to see what is happening.
To quote Biggie Smalls, "Now Honey plays me close like butter played toast."
However, I do also appreciate and support the stance that while we should be aware of what is going on, we don't necessarily need to criticise to make this happen. I believe that showing the gruesome and horrible facts and providing knowledge and information is in itself very convincing of what is "wrong" and what is, at this time, not in line with the Dharma teachings that we are all trying to practice. This is just my view, but, like I said myself (and shouldn't contradict!), this is a forum, so we must continue to talk talk talk and debate. I guess this in itself is providing knowledge and information for many thousands of others to read, understand and eventually develop their own views and action.
This is the core of our disagreement, and it is a very difficult one to navigate, because some of us here are following our Gurus, and some of you are following yours. They are giving conflicting advice. The problem for me in many of the posts that I have been reading here of late is that I often feel that the newer members are trying to foist their Guru's advice on others, and that is generally in poor taste.
The way I see it, and I am well aware this is not a view that is accepted by all, is that the Dalai Lama is a deluded man in a high political position. This whole view that the DL is working for the spread of the practice is just absurd on its face, and has nothing to recommend it other than our hopes that everyone can be pals. It is so painful to read things like "Why would the DL do so many horrible and contradictory things, it doesn't make sense, there must be a bigger plan in the works!"
so from our point of view, actually it is necessary to destroy the Dalai Lama's reputation with our words. Does this mean we dislike the Dalai Lama? That would be contradictory and meaningless, and this is another reason that is has been so unpleasant to read the nooby posts suggesting over and over that we shouldn't be angry and hateful,
as though we were. It really is so presumtuous and shallow and yes, unkind.
So when people say, as you do above, that we can point out what is taking place but there is no need to critisize, we must part company. Please believe me, it's an idea I like, and am very attracted to, and idea many of us had been trying since the mid-nineties. The secret is, and lean in real close now...it will not work.
The Dalai Lama is using his speech to destroy our lineage, and he simply has too much unchallenged authority, even when he blatantly lies, no-one dares say 'boo', because their reputation is immediately trashed. If we do not reduce the power of his speech by telling the truth and by this I mean the whole stinking messy hideous embarassing truth, our lineage will be finished. When your Lama and mine are gone, the TGIE and it's western lackeys will descend like vultures and try to finish us off.
So yes, it is gross, some of the things we have to. And yes, our reputation will be damaged by all the screaming and yelling and name calling. I completely agree with you that in the eyes of others it is unpalatable, and turns them off Dorje Shugden and even Buddhism in general to some extent. However, and this is a BIG however, if we embarass the Dalai Lama, he has to stop persecuting the people, because it is against the law and it destroys the only thing this man has, which is his unearned reputation, a fragile thing if ever there was one.
So when we protested most recently, in 08, we were greeted by a wave of thank you's from DS practitioners in the Tibetan settlements, they were praying for us, and many said that if it wouldn't cause their families to be made outcast, the would stand up wiht us. It WORKED, and the DL had to back off his intensifying campaign against the practitoners. Many of the Lamas who supported the WSS and who have many western disciples paid for all the food and housing for the expelled monks, hundreds and hundreds of them, and then donated a great deal of money, enabling Serpom Norling and Ganden Shartse to come into being.
This is not a discussion targeted at bourgeois educated elite westerners, it is a centuries old feud born in Tibet. This is how this debate is conducted, and miss honeydakini, it is a gutter streetfight.
So I am sorry it is embarassing to some that we use harsh language. I'm sure it seems un-Buddhist to some, but frankly my dear... well, you know the rest.
Does anyone really think that the Dalai Lama is a Muslim? Of course not. Calling him 'saffron robed muslim' means "dharma destroyer" in Tibetan feud-ese. When they expelled Venerable Geshe Kelang Gyatso from Sera, the abbot called him "Mohammed of Gazhni." Did one sinlge person stand up and say, "hey, for the abbot of one of the most renowned Buddhist monasteries that ever was, that is harsh speech! Sir, you are breaking your precepts! How un-Buddhist!" Did the Dalai Lama say one thing? Was this man reprimanded? THE TGIE PUT THE LETTER ON THEIR WEBSITE! THEY WERE PROUD OF IT!
This is because the Muslims wiped out Buddhism in the Holy land, India, so calling someone a Muslim in this context is saying "you are destroying Buddhas teachings."
Right now the whole world thinks the Dalai Lama is someone that he certainly is not, and those scales must be removed from the eyes, otherwise not just Dorje Shugden practice will be destroyed, the entire Buddhadharma as it existed in Tibet will be lost, as we swirl into a frenzy of blind tulku-following, oracle-worshipping, lineage-ignoring superstition and nonsense.
so, even if everyone thinks we are crazy, and the academics and hollywood-set despair of us, we will go on shouting and calling our names, and gradually, actual people who don't give a fig that some people think the Dalai Lama is a god will look at this situation and think "he's not who he pretends to be." Really, it couldn't be clearer, if one has the courage to look. The only people who don't see it are those who have been told that "his holiness" is Avalokiteshvara, and have swallowed this view, in an absolute perversion of guruyoga, the politisizing and standardizing a view that is meant to be a practice for his trained disciples.
now, many lamas will try to minimize conflict, because they are invested in the cause of Tibet, and they have samaya with this political lama. Sad for them. This view does not constrain us in the west. I will tell you openly that I do not trust Tibetans in the settlements to be able to say what they really feel, they are under a terrible pressure. Even many Tibetans outside who have family in india cannot say what they think. So we say it for them.
When people say "Trijang never speaks against, Dagom never does, Gangchen never does...." This entirely misses the point. The disiples of these lamas do, what does that tell you? These lamas say what they think privately, but they are cornered, and cannot say publically what they feel. Many close disciples of Dagom Rinpoche feel that he was murdered over this, and they told me this themselves.
Here's an anecdote for you....
At one of the demonstrations, a huge tibetan dude pulled his giant Escalade onto the sidewalk in front of myself and a tibetan practitioner, and drew his finger across his throat while grimacing and leering at my friend. The indication was "I will slit your throat. Then he backed it up by saying, "when you get back to india, you will not live three days. I will find your family." He was seething with hate, and I can tell you I was genuinely unnerved. Then this charming fellow took out his digital camera and snapped a picture of my friend. A few days later this picture appeared on wanted posters all around Queens, where he lived, pointing out that he was a chinese spy and that something should be done. I'm fairly sure that precisely what that meant was evident to all. I have a picture of this poster.
I was shaken, and tried to be supportive, and asked if he was ok. He said, "Maybe they will kill me, but I can't be afraid anymore." There was a hard set in his jaw, and he looked sad and resolved in a way I have never forgotten.
I wonder why more people don't speak out? It must be because His Holiness is Avalokishevara, no?
Like I said in my previous post, we are all actually "on the same side" - i.e. we all love our protector and wish to further his practice in the world and share the benefit of his practice with others. I am sorry if I have added to conflict even within the "same camp" - it was not my intention to do this and I am real glad to hear that everyone is still discussing openly and this space allows that.
yeah, ok.
I just wished to share a differing view which I do hold but, like TK, I personally don't wish to speak against the Dalai Lama. I apologise again that I had misread your comments as being "against" the noobs or being threatened or angered.
I can only speak for myself when I say I am definitely not against anyone here.
Truce? and onwards onwards to more sharing and discussion...!
you can be a friend of mine any day.
