Promoting Dorje Shugden. PERIOD.

[a friend]

How? In a general way I cannot answer. In the specific case of DL, well, just listen to him.
He knew that among the Protector´s people there were a lot that had received teachings from him, that were his disciples. Knowing this, specifically he forbad any contact of any kind with them, not even of material necessities nor mundane human contact, let alone Dharma contact.
That is spelled: to break samaya with the disciple. To abandon the disciple. No mistery here.
Samaya is a relashionship, it cannot exist with one member only. It´s a bond between Guru and disciple. Once the bond is severed, it´s severed, cut, finished, gone, disappeared. It´s similar to a pregnant woman: you cannot have a woman that is "a little bit pregnant". If there are two, she and the child inside, no matter his size, then she is pregnant. If there is she alone, then she is no pregnant at all, period. In the same way, you cannot have a samaya that runs on its own from the side of the Guru alone or from the side of the disciple alone. If one is missing, no samaya.

[honeydakini]

No matter what please don't let your faith in your Lama be shaken by our discussions.[/color]

Thank you for saying this. I too believe in never giving up faith in our Lamas and it is very inspiring to see so many people sharing this same view (because we sure have many many people who drop their Lamas, including OUR OWN LAMAS, at the snap of a finger).

i appreciate also your points about DL not being the only Guru, and therefore that the samaya/lineage is not cut as the lama would still have his samaya in tact with his other lamas who conferred the protector practice onto him.

I'm still ruminating though, on how to reconcile a situation if a person has BOTH a DS Lama and Dalai Lama as their Lama. Who do you listen to then? I mean
- if you give up your DS practice, you break samaya with your Guru who gave you the practice
- if you continue the practice, you break samaya with the Dalai Lama. For many, this is the predicament they are in and they do not wish to forsake or give up either because they do love and still and have faith in both.

So do you just sit on the fence then? Pretend that you're not doing the practice but you continue to do? Just keep quiet and not say anything at all? I'm not trying to argue, but would sincerely like to know: what does one do?! How can one keep practising?

And again, why would the Dalai Lama allow so many practitioners in this predicament to "fail?"

I still hold that it cannot just be an arbritary "changing of minds" that is causing the whole basis of practice - which is this question of samaya - to crumble. Something must be clanging away in the background, for which something is being sacrificed and suffered right now for it to open up and arise bigger and better later. I'm sorry if this sounds naive, but I just cannot bring myself - and do not wish - to believe that the lamas would set us up to fail like this.

[a friend]

Sorry Dulzin I didn´t answer the second "hipothetical" question.
If I were the one with that variety of Lamas, the surest thing for me to do would be the following: go and ask the advice of those who are openly practicing.

I know some people are in that case. It´s really very difficult. One thing I would like to remind all the disciples is: please do not feel bad, you are not the ones who created this. Of course, there is our collective karma, but that is true too for the earthquake in Haiti and anything happening in our planet, we are all related and one way or another we share in different degrees a common karma. But specifically, you are not responsible for this confusion, for this difficulty with the Lamas and the lineage and the samayas and the whole enchilada, you are not the direct creators of this, so if there are mistakes, don´t worry too much, just keep your good heart, cultivate your bodhicitta, everything is going to be ok.

[a friend]

Honeydakini, I have to ponder more to answer you. Maybe in the meantime what I just said to Dulzin is what I could say to you too. With love, a F

[Zhalmed Pawo]

.........I'm not trying to argue, but would sincerely like to know: what does one do?! How can one keep practising?

And again, why would the Dalai Lama allow so many practitioners in this predicament to "fail?"

I still hold that it cannot just be an arbritary "changing of minds" that is causing the whole basis of practice - which is this question of samaya - to crumble. Something must be clanging away in the background, for which something is being sacrificed and suffered right now for it to open up and arise bigger and better later. I'm sorry if this sounds naive, but I just cannot bring myself - and do not wish - to believe that the lamas would set us up to fail like this.

As for the personal practice, this issue has to be resolved by the individual himself or herself. Preferrably with his or her own Lama. (Dalai might be unavailable for discussion to the most of his 'disciples', but he has been very explicit in his general public statements that no DS-practitioners are allowed amongst his students. That is generally known. You can make your own conclusions from that fact.

As for the situation in general, that, indeed, is unknown, where the future is concerned. There is no Big Picture. There are some who say that there is a some sort of orchestrated beneficial purpose and a wonderful outcome with all this, but they do not know any such Great Plan, since they are merely guessing and hoping out of desperation. The source of that desperation lies in believing that there is some sort of Cosmic Plan, made by all these nicey Buddhas. But sadly for the existence or rather validity of those naive ideas (as you called them), there is no Buddhist teleology. There is no God's Plan, but just the slow slippage into the hellish Kali-Yuga. The Gurus, Lamas, or the Buddhas, have not made any genious or devious pact whereby we might find the bliss of nirvana. They have merely pointed the Way. You yourself have to walk the walk; and whether the Dalai curses you or blesses you, it makes no difference, since the walk is the same. The pointers and guide-posts of the walk, or the path, can be found in the Dharma. Not in the declarations of the Dalai. But in the Dharma. (The only reason some of us yap yap to Dalai is that his declarations make the Dharma inaccessible to many people.)

So you see, nobody, no High Lama, no Super Guru, is setting you or anybody else up. You do not need to believe in a teleological idea, which is a non-buddhist anyways, right from the beginning, nor do you need to believe in the Master Plan of the big honchos, since all you will ever get from Buddhism is the Dharma, which acts merely as the 'compass to be used on your path'. All you need to ask is, that "will you make the walk?"

[Big Uncle]

I thought this thread is solely about promoting Dorje Shugden...

Anyway, I think Dorje Shugden is extremely real and close to me although I can't see him. He seemed to answer all my distress 'black teas' when I need help the most. Somehow no matter how bad the situation is, he always manage to reverse it completely. He is so amazing for that! He had saved my job on so many occasions and even kind enough to settle my relationship problems. I know this sounds shallow but I have more faith in the Dharma and the existence of Buddhas because of Dorje Shugden.

Hence I am extremely excited to hear that he will become big one day because of the Dalai Lama's ban. I know this doesn't make sense to some but it makes perfect sense to me. Besides, the Dalai Lama can't do a thing or not how does NKT became so big while practising Dorje Shugden. To me, that is another proof of how powerful Dorje Shugden is in spreading the Dharma.

Hope what I said tied this thread back to its intended theme.

[DSFriend]

I thought this thread is solely about promoting Dorje Shugden...

Anyway, I think Dorje Shugden is extremely real and close to me although I can't see him. He seemed to answer all my distress 'black teas' when I need help the most. Somehow no matter how bad the situation is, he always manage to reverse it completely. He is so amazing for that! He had saved my job on so many occasions and even kind enough to settle my relationship problems. I know this sounds shallow but I have more faith in the Dharma and the existence of Buddhas because of Dorje Shugden.

I can relate to what you are expressing. Similar to how we cannot see our Guru's mind, we can see his compassionate words and works.

[DharmaDefender]

I thought this thread is solely about promoting Dorje Shugden...

Anyway, I think Dorje Shugden is extremely real and close to me although I can't see him. He seemed to answer all my distress 'black teas' when I need help the most. Somehow no matter how bad the situation is, he always manage to reverse it completely. He is so amazing for that! He had saved my job on so many occasions and even kind enough to settle my relationship problems. I know this sounds shallow but I have more faith in the Dharma and the existence of Buddhas because of Dorje Shugden.

Hence I am extremely excited to hear that he will become big one day because of the Dalai Lama's ban. I know this doesn't make sense to some but it makes perfect sense to me. Besides, the Dalai Lama can't do a thing or not how does NKT became so big while practising Dorje Shugden. To me, that is another proof of how powerful Dorje Shugden is in spreading the Dharma.

Hope what I said tied this thread back to its intended theme.

Of course you should - Dorje Shugden only helps when it benefits your dharma practice so I don't think asking for stuff like that is wrong or particularly mundane as long as the motivation behind it is, "May I gain what is necessary to benefit others". The fact that you now have more faith in the Dharma shows how effective Dorje Shugden has been, and that he has done his job well (as though there was ever any doubt that he wouldn't!)...he cleared the path for you to think about others

I'm going to be a little presumptuous in the following paragraph and I hope you don't take offence, it's just for me to get the point out! I hope you don't place your faith in Dorje Shugden simply because he helped you with your job, etc though because that makes for unstable dharma practice. My guru recently asked us to consider that if you serve the Dharma on the basis of your lama, what happens when your guru goes away? If you serve the Dharma on the basis of your lama, your Dharma practice will go up and down - on a good day, you'll see your lama as a living Buddha and follow his instructions faultlessly. On a bad day, your lama is the most horrible person on the planet pushing you to do things that make you feel uncomfortable, hurt you, upset you, etc.

I've always been taught (and it makes sense to me) that it is a baaaaaaaaaad idea if your dharma practice is based on something external, like the things that Dorje Shugden has done for you. Of course, showing gratitude is entirely valid and a great thing to do, but basing one's entire dharma practice on how you feel seems a little unsustainable to me.

[Geronimo]

RIP Dorje Shugden?
If anyone actually reads or thinks about the materials from the Tibetan government, they should know that in one of their articles they pronounced that Dorje Shugden was already killed. So what is the fuss? If he was already sent to a pure land, he can’t be a hungry ghost. Can His Holiness please clarify this?

“In 1669, the earth-bird year, activities to pacify the spirit were performed with the construction of a new house and the placing of (relevant) articles, but to no avail. In the beginning of 1674, the wood-tiger year, and 1675, the wood-rabbit year, two specifically targeted rituals were performed and finally, at the end of 1675, the wood-rabbit year, seven groups of practitioners performed fire rituals and destroyed it forever.”

“Likewise Rigzin Pema Thinley of Dorje Drag, Dharma King Terdag Lingpa, Vugja Lungpa, Drigung Tulku Rinpoche, Katshal Zurpa Ngari Konchok Lhundup and Palri Tulku performed the Wrathful Lama, Yamaraja, Phurba, Loktri practice for seven days, at the conclusion of which a fire-ritual was performed during which the ‘perfidious interfering spirit’ and his entourage were burnt. Everybody was convinced (of its success because of) the appearance of wonderful signs and the smell of burning flesh that everybody witnessed.”

Dorje Shugden – Why can’t they subdue him if they say he is just a spirit?


And why does His Holiness the Dalai Lama need to repeat his ‘warnings’ re Dorje Shugden so many times?

If Dorje Shugden truly was a demon and harmful, then His Holiness and other high Lamas should just subdue him through ritual. After all, Nechung is an evil spirit, subdued by Guru Rinpoche and bound to help. After being subdued, you don’t hear Guru Rinpoche warning us re him anymore. If Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by His Holiness or High lamas, then he must be more powerful than the Dalai Lama?? Or he is enlightened. Think.

[Geronimo]

As Lord Buddha said, ultimately you have to be your own guide.
In regard to broken samyas, I can only say from my own experiences that dissolving seals or bonds can be a painful process to undo, that is from my side.
  I deliberated to remove any books of his and burned anything else ever given, on a clear star lite night.
Having anything that reminded me of DL was removed or destroyed, including a microfilm with his prayers in a prayer wheel.
I do not keep relics of someone I consider a fraud and intentionally attacked me.
So Samayas, I think is a personal thing that each one of us must deliberate and decide how they keep people in their hearts.
  I've seen too much up way close to delude myself that this man has my best intentions in mind and I think that includes everyone else. The Lamas can love the Dalia Lama, they are lamas! I do not see any evidence that he has practiced the dharma for a long, long time.
He is not worth all of this effort in my estimation. When will we cease to be surprised that in samsara, even a man steeped in medieval despotism and to his shame enslaved millions of people in servitude and ignorance, rise a beacon of democracy only serves to further infuriate me to witness his charades and what a fool he makes of himself and diminishes the integrity of Buddhism. Make no small thing out of what is occurring. This is an UNPRECEDENTED HISTORICAL EVENT UNFOLDING WITHHIN BUDDHISM.
Not since King 'whathisname' almost destroyed Buddhism, has Buddhism ever been so threatened from within. In the last instance Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche took care of business and shot the king with an arrow, hoping on his horse, he sped out of sight. Until I met him again, and he asked me to defend the Lineage. I said, Okay! What do we do?
So, How about you?
I do not intend for his character assasination of Lord Shugden and therefore all of us, to Stand In the East and Certainly Not In the West. Where if he wants to play the televangilist popularity poll.
I will not Stand For It!
Till the end of his day or his recanting.
I for one will pursue him and do what I can to undermine him and ridicule his statements
Resolution within One's Self Requires Committment!
Monks and Lamas have reconstituted in many places and flourish in others with promise of continuance, if we all perervere and understand the bond. Then all will be well and we can be as one.
Do not discount the so-called political events with the Panchen Lama in China's Tibet or TibetanChina.
It extends the affirmation of the United Nations Mandate that All of Us Can Practice Our Beliefs Unmolested by Anyone, including governments and despots.
The events reveal that over 1.3 Billion Sentient Beings have the right to Practice if they wish the Freedoms we have come to accept as our inherent rights Protected under Our Constitution and Bill Of Rights.It is No Small Thing, these Right to Law Protect Us All as does the Practice of the Dharma.
 How many have died and sacrificed for our rights to our freedoms and the right to Counsel did not just pop in the door. If not for these freedoms or politics, we might not be just saying anything we wish. How wonderful these Freedoms are espoused in the Press of Our Friends the Chinese. The Right to Practice their Beliefs, as long as they do not harm someone.
 Good Manners is what the Dharma is to me!
These events are important to help put things in context with the actual world outside of our own.
It is a fact that the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden and his representative the Panchen Lama is the Head Protector of Mahayanna Buddhism in China.
So, this is a good thing and amazing to me! Really beyond politics. What do you think our lamas and Ganchen Lama have been up to?
Just ignore the Panchen Lama because the TGIE and the Dalia Lama are Sour Grapes? No Way, Jose!
If you want the Bigger Picture, then read the press in the Chinese edition. They are on a roll and one would think that Paul Revere had just rode past their door. They defend Buddhism on the Official Communist Newspapers everyday in Big Bold Letters. Now that they have someone to focus this energy as a nation,The Panchen lama.
I do not know how everyone else got here, I know it has helped me to find myself again. But here we are for one reason or another, as we discover friendships through understanding our different ways of looking at things are more in common than we might think. From this we draw strenght to define ourselves in this confusion.Feel less alone after being ostracized, shunned and threatened by sinister forces or confused in general. How could such a thing happen and why?
Well, we've been figuring this out and stabilizing our mindset and getting to understand little by little. That this is an unprecedented event unfolding and all of us are a part of what is happening. No point in looking any farther than your mirror to see that it is you that brings the solution to our dilemma by Being Active in the Practice and saying what you think. May not mean anything to you, but to another,it could be a revelation.
Our words are making a difference and others attempt to provide the evidence and statements to keep us up with the efforts being made,not to do anything would have brought even more suffering. As it is witnessing the surge of the Panchen Lama is amazing to me to witness considering where we started 40 or 50 years ago. Besides, what is happening in China is opening the doors with an option that did not exist 30years ago. This is a Victory and needs a very positve response that things are moving from the dark days of the Cold War to openly defending Buddhism is magnificent. What jubilation this will bring and will solidify Lord Shugden to set the conditons for anyone who applies for a way out of here, get some slack. Eighty % of Chinese kids are looking for a way to eleviate the stress. The Panchen Lama might become their hero and then an opportunity for them to be introduced to the Dharma. Is no small thing.
From the Cultural Revoltion to the New Buddhism Revoltion is what's happening at this very moment. So get on the Dharma Wagon and wish All the Best and if this Lama is just a ruse for the Buddhadharma to flourish? Then great and that's swell. nice job. Now, what's next? 
   

[Lee Dhi]

Dear Honeydakini, thanks for continuously putting forward to message of “focus on the benefits of practicing DS”!

The sharing in this posting allowed me to see the benefits of bringing Dorje Shugden back to mainstream by working from every angle and using every opportunity. Wisdombeing is right, the efforts of WSS has given the issue related to DS’ ban a lot of attention and awareness. This was very necessary and has helped reduce the suffering experienced by DS practitioners and provided progress in the growth of DS’ practice. At the same time, with more attention on the politics surrounding the DS controversy, it has become just as necessary to convey a clear message to the world that we want to stop this ban because of the benefits from practicing DS, not because we want to put down the Dalai Lama, which sometimes come across as such in the efforts of WSS. Therefore, the combined efforts in the past years have brought constructive results for the practice of Dorje Shugden.

It is so wonderful that, regardless of the different approaches we choose to use, we ALL share ONE COMMON MOTIVATION: to have Dorje Shugden practice flourish and benefit all sentient beings!

Last but not least, I would like to add that the efforts made to promote DS and his good qualities is not powerless simply because the Dalai Lama imposed the ban. I dare make this statement because I believe and completely trust that our Protector is behind us all the way and will support us in everyway so that we will gain the belief of sincere Dharma practitioners.

[Geronimo]

"Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other.  I earnestly appeal to them instead to resolve any differences by taking oaths never to share material or spiritual resources with Shugden practitioners."em

We will not tolerate these abuses and neither will be enjoin or be deceived by a lama who rejects the Teachings of Lord Buddha by persecuting Dorje Shugden Practioners. As he and his cult have persecuted us for hundreds of years. It is clear that the line in the sand has been drawn and this time, we will not relent nor take his abuses and will fight this injustice with our dying breaths to sustain and increase the dharma in our world.
United We Rise! Divided...................well that is impossible to be divided with Dorje Shugden Protecting Our Mind's Gate
Or as Tsem Rinpoche advises:Easy Yet Powerful 
March 9, 2010
The following has been extracted from H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche's blog.
People have asked me thousands of times what practice they should do daily. They are busy, pressured for time and have heavy commitments. I understand. I sympathize that with so little time, they are sincere enough to want to connect with something higher daily. Perhaps for sanity's sake or perhaps from realizations that THERE IS MORE TO LIFE THAN WHAT WE GET TRAPPED IN.

Thousands of times I have replied to take the Gaden Hlagyama meditational practice of Lord Tsongkhapa daily. Why? It is short, simple and complete.

Recite the healing Migtsema mantra with concentration 21 times a day, or one rosary, or any amount you are comfortable with. Do this daily. Daily without missing.

Believe, trust and let go of projections during your mantra time and absorb Tsongkhapa's healing energy into you.

Let Him heal you of depression, self-hatred, low self-esteem, stress and fears. Do it daily to reinforce and make the positive energy grow. Do it well. Do it with full understanding that there are higher powers THAT CAN HELP US short and long term.

Lord Tsongkhapa's practice requires no vows, no commitments and no 'dangerous' meditations. It is gentle yet healing. All encompassing. It is short yet complete. It combines the energies of correct wisdom, unending compassion and skilful activities of the Enlightened Lord Tsongkapa into your being. This energy is great to tap into. Try it. Trust it. Let go.

Don't stress yourself with complicated practices. They are not what you need at this time.

Reward yourself with 15 minutes or more of delicious, healing meditations on Lord Tsongkhapa daily.

Commit to Tsongkhapa. Take Him as your sacred personal space Buddha.

You will get results

Much care,
Tsem Tulku
www.kechara.com
 

[Geronimo]

Heart Advice 
The Eight Verses Of Mind Transformation
H.E. Tsem Tulku Rinpoche's message and advice can be summed up in the following eight verses, which he considers the essence of spirituality.

With the thought of attaining Enlightenment
for the welfare of all beings
who are more precious than a wish-fulfilling jewel
I will constantly practise holding them dear.

Whenever I am with others, I will practise
seeing myself as the lowest of all
and from the very depths of my heart
I will respectfully hold others as supreme.

In all actions I will examine my mind
and the moment a disturbing attitude arises,
endangering myself or others,
I will firmly confront and avert it.

Whenever I meet a person of bad nature,
overwhelmed by negative energy and intense suffering
I will hold such a rare one dear
as if I've found a precious treasure.

When others out of jealousy
mistreat me with abuse, slander and so on
I will practise accepting defeat
and offering the victory to them.

When someone I have benefited and in whom
I have placed great trust, hurts me very badly
I will practise seeing that person
as my supreme teacher.

In short, I will offer directly and indirectly
every benefit and happiness to all beings, my mothers.
I will practise in secret taking upon myself
all their harmful actions and sufferings.

Without these practices being defiled
by the eight worldly concerns,
by perceiving all phenomena as illusory
I will practise without grasping to release all beings
from the bondage of the disturbing unsubdued mind and karma.

by Geshe Langri Tangpa
 

[Geronimo]

Maybe this what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche meant when he said have faith in the Dalia Lama?

"When someone I have benefited and in whom
I have placed great trust, hurts me very badly
I will practise seeing that person
as my supreme teacher."

[dsnowlion]

Maybe this what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche meant when he said have faith in the Dalia Lama?

"When someone I have benefited and in whom
I have placed great trust, hurts me very badly
I will practise seeing that person
as my supreme teacher."

In deed this verse is very appropriate for us Shugdenpas at this time of confusion. Actually it is appropriate for us all daily, even the Tibetans. Thank you for the nice reminder LG.

May the teachers have long lives. May the enlightened activities be fully displayed in the ten directions, and may the brightness of the teachings of Lama Tsongkhapa continuously dissipate the veil of darkness covering the beings of the three realms.