KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE'S ADVICE REGARDING DORJE SHUGDEN AND DALAI LAMA...

[Geronimo]

By Kadampa Geshe Langri Tangpa 1054-1123)

With the determination to accomplish
The highest welfare for all sentient beings
Who surpass even a wish-granting jewel
I will learn to hold them supremely dear.

Whenever I associate with others I will learn
To think of myself as the lowest among all
And respectfully hold others to be supreme
From the very depths of my heart

In all actions I will learn to search into my mind
And as soon as an afflictive emotion arises
Endangering myself and others
Will firmly face and avert it.

I will learn to cherish all beings of bad nature
And those pressed by strong sins and sufferings
As if I had found a precious
Treasure very difficult to find

When others out of jealousy treat me badly
With abuse, slander, and so on,
I will learn to take all loss
And offer the victory to them

When one whom I have benefited with great hope
Unreasonably hurts me very badly,
I will learn to view that person
As an excellent spiritual guide.

In short, I will learn to offer to everyone without exception
All help and happiness directly and indirectly
And respectfully take upon myself
All harm and suffering of my mothers.

I will learn to keep all these practices
Undefiled by the stains of the eight worldly conceptions
And by the understanding all phenomena as like illusions
Be released from the bondage of attachment.

[a friend]

Thank you Thom for the stanzas of our teacher Geshe Langri Tang Pa.

[a friend]

Maybe you could send the letter to Administration?

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Don't misunderstand please. I am not saying that Dalai Lama isnt lying. But there are alternative methods that cause less damage to the institution of the Dalai Lama.

I would like to hear what these are.

[Zhalmed Pawo]

Can you please explain further why you consider it inappropriate to promote a pure view openly?

For a starters, the practice of pure view is a Tantric practice, an inner practice, a secret practice in fact, and therefore the contents of it are by definition inappropriate to be expressed openly.

It is a sad thing that these inner things are nowadays proclaimed openly. (Even some DS-practitioners have made "inner statements" about their Gurus in the public, thereby in fact proclaiming something that should not be proclaimed.) All Vajrayanists know this point. Outer view and the secret view are not to be mixed. Only trouble comes, if that is made. And lo, trouble we have. This is the sad fact, caused by Tibetan society, where the private inner visions were made political realities. (I have written abot this issue here before.)

And for the seconds, if you make the pure view into a public stance, you would have to see me, Zhalmed Pawo, as an emanation of your Guru-Buddha, not merely in the secret sense, but also in the "outer realistical sense", for after all, everything is within the mandala of the Guru-Buddha, and therefore pure emanations. If you want to promote the pure view publicly, you can start with me, just now: If your Guru is Avalokiteshvara, then I am truly his emanation! I really am, you see. - And that is why the view must be secret.

[Mohani]

Hi Thom,
Did you mean these?

[Atishas cook]

re. outer, inner and secret:

as a - fierce - proponent of the "the Dalai Lama is deluded, unholy and lying" viewpoint it might seem odd for me to say this, but in fact i agree absolutely with a friend.  here is my view:

outwardly, the Dalai Lama IS lying and we SHOULD destroy his power to harm others and kill our lineage by destroying his reputation.  the short-term perceived harm to the reputation of Buddhism is regrettable, but it's as nothing compared to the long-term harm that would arise if we do not.  now is the time to show a wrathful face.

inwardly, we must always try, as Lord Buddha, Je Tsongkhapa and our Lamas teach us, to maintain a good heart and to act not to harm others but to protect them from the power of delusion - including those who are harmed and those doing the harming: in this case the Dalai Lama.  if we forget our bodhichitta and become not wrathful but angry then we become the destroyers of the Dharma just as much as is the Dalai Lama.

secretly, we hold the view that it is all the nature of enlightened mind: the illusory dance of bliss and emptiness.  from this point of view, the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden, Lord Buddha and we ourselves are all mere manifestations of the Dharmakaya.

it is entirely inappropriate - and it contradicts the very example shown us so clearly by Je Tsongkhapa - to fail to act appropriately, according to the needs of the worldly, with a good heart and instead to tell the world that we are practising a secret view and our inaction in the face of apparent evil is the "Buddhist" way.

of course it's all empty!  of course i pray for the Dalai Lama's happiness and freedom!  of course i stand up and shout and will continue to do so for as long as the outer situation demands it!

i accept this secret view, but i do not accept the apparent confusion concerning how to practise integrating the outer, inner and secret views that appears (to my faulty and ill-controlled mind) to be espoused here by some of us.

[Mohani]

Thom
When you left click on the images they show at their full size. If you right click on the image, save image as, then open it in a image viewer you will be able to zoom in on them.
Cheers
Dunc

[a friend]

Atisha´s Cook: why is it odd that you agree with me, pray?  I´ve been duelling to defend the position of WSS for so long, even though I never made it a secret that some formal things I don´t like but who cares ... I didn´t know that I was some type of outcast that it´s odd to be in agreement with ... 

But back to our matter: if we all could agree on this, on applying the levels of outer, inner and secret, we might find some peace among the Protector´s practitioners, don´t you think?
Not everybody has the same level of knowledge, though, so maybe with some patience, explaining time and again, this could be brought about. Or so I hope. Little by little.

Thank you for trying to understand.

[Atishas cook]

a friend -

not at all - i'm almost always in complete agreement with you, in fact!  i meant that it might appear odd to some of those having difficulty with this idea, particularly as i've so strongly opposed the seeming mixing of outer and secret views that i've been seeing in many of the newcomers' posts.

i think that this very mixing, or inappropriate grasping at the secret view, has been the downfall of so many practitioners and teachers - believing that "because my Guru is a Buddha he is infallible and even if he asks me to commit murder or engage in sexual misconduct it must be a compassionate act and it's therefore ok".  we've all seen this problem and i think westerners like myself are particularly susceptible to it at the beginning of our spiritual path.  it is so hard to find a pure Teacher, and so hard to understand how to rely on him or her correctly!  but this is nothing to the pain of having that most sacred of trusts broken by the very person we previously revered.  unless we have a profound understanding of the nature of the definitive Guru then such a thing can completely destroy us, or lead us into some profoundly unwholesome behaviours.

thank you for seeking a meeting ground for the differing views put forward on this forum.  i know i can be blunt with the noobs and with any dangerous or divisive view, but i'm blunt with a good heart, i hope.  may we all develop and maintain pure compassion and stainless wisdom: to act correctly according to appearances, with a pure motivation, whilst secretly seeing it all as a blissful, empty manifestation of the Guru!

[DharmaDefender]

re. outer, inner and secret:

as a - fierce - proponent of the "the Dalai Lama is deluded, unholy and lying" viewpoint it might seem odd for me to say this, but in fact i agree absolutely with a friend.  here is my view:

outwardly, the Dalai Lama IS lying and we SHOULD destroy his power to harm others and kill our lineage by destroying his reputation.  the short-term perceived harm to the reputation of Buddhism is regrettable, but it's as nothing compared to the long-term harm that would arise if we do not.  now is the time to show a wrathful face.

inwardly, we must always try, as Lord Buddha, Je Tsongkhapa and our Lamas teach us, to maintain a good heart and to act not to harm others but to protect them from the power of delusion - including those who are harmed and those doing the harming: in this case the Dalai Lama.  if we forget our bodhichitta and become not wrathful but angry then we become the destroyers of the Dharma just as much as is the Dalai Lama.

secretly, we hold the view that it is all the nature of enlightened mind: the illusory dance of bliss and emptiness.  from this point of view, the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden, Lord Buddha and we ourselves are all mere manifestations of the Dharmakaya.

it is entirely inappropriate - and it contradicts the very example shown us so clearly by Je Tsongkhapa - to fail to act appropriately, according to the needs of the worldly, with a good heart and instead to tell the world that we are practising a secret view and our inaction in the face of apparent evil is the "Buddhist" way.

of course it's all empty!  of course i pray for the Dalai Lama's happiness and freedom!  of course i stand up and shout and will continue to do so for as long as the outer situation demands it!

i accept this secret view, but i do not accept the apparent confusion concerning how to practise integrating the outer, inner and secret views that appears (to my faulty and ill-controlled mind) to be espoused here by some of us.

I think not many of us would disagree with you on this, but we would disagree with you re: how our frustration is being expressed. Of course it is subjective, but it seems like protests from the practitioners' end is turning into anger, more than wrath. That is also based on the assumption that they have attained bodhicitta and their actions arise solely from that.

What I don't like is that parties like the WSS are solely geared at criticising the Dalai Lama, not about spreading right view about Dorje Shugden. Just take a look at their website - it's all about the ban, and little about the practice. What's wrong with a two-pronged approach? Yes, break down the Dalai Lama's reputation if you want to, but what happened to Dorje Shugden? What happened to spreading his practice? The only time his name is mentioned is when it's in connection to how the Dalai Lama is suppressing his practice. Because little is said about Dorje Shugden's practice or lineage, the WSS runs the risk of turning the ban into a Hollywood cause du jour.

By the way, and I do understand (and agree with) the point you're making about correct guru devotion, but I think saying that "i think westerners like myself are particularly susceptible to it at the beginning of our spiritual path" plays into a lot of criticism that we face about being brainwashed by 'evil' lamas like Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and Gangchen Rinpoche. It's something I've heard again and again, that protestors are Westerners brainwashed into interfering with what is supposed to be a Tibetan issue.

[Atishas cook]

DharmaDefender -

i quite agree: by all means, please, work to flourish the practice of Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa's lineage.  of course this is important.  but the WSS does not exist for this function.  it exists - solely - to stop the Dalai Lama's ban from destroying the lineage.  in many ways, it is a political activist group in terms of its actions, but the - crucial - difference is that its aim is entirely spiritual.  it will dissolve as soon as the Dalai Lama either publicly and effectively revokes his ban and states that Shugden practitioners are Buddhists who should be welcomed back into society, or has the power of his speech to create division entirely destroyed.  it does not seek any political aim.  however, it is not a spiritual organisation in the sense that it does not exist to teach Dharma or to build Temples, etc., yet of course its aim is spiritual.

i guess that our religious organisations such as Shar Ganden, NKT, etc. are analogous to teaching Buddhas, while WSS is analogous to a Dharma Protector.

also - i have been present at almost all WSS protests and most of the SSC's protests in the 90s and i can tell you from my own experience that while we may not be all of us Bodhisattvas yet these protests have ALL been conducted with happy and compassionate minds, however wrathful we've appeared.  the press always seem to photograph us in mid-cry, fists raised, passion on our faces.  they never seem to show us cheering and then falling about laughing between choruses, or smiling and sharing sandwiches and juice at lunchtime!

[Middleway]

Outwardly proclaiming pure view (ie going around telling everyone the DL is Avalokiteshvara) can, & does, lead to people viewing others as inherently existent holy beings.  This leads to blind faith ("he just is pure, I just am not, therefore he can do no wrong & I do what I'm told unquestioningly"), political abuses (politician: "how great would it be if everyone thought I was infallible & beyond question? Lets set myself up as a Buddha!"), blocked spiritual progress (if there are inherently existent pure beings there are also inherently existent impure beings which probably means me, so why bother applying effort), deferment of responsibility ("I'm rubbish, he's great, let him do all the holy work while I just continue being an idiot"), attachment ("he's soooooooo holy! My happiness comes from him, without him I'd be miserable..."), anger ("I placed all my trust (deferred all my responsibility to) him, now he's not acting in ways I like! Let's crucify him!" or, "that person has spoken against my holy master! Crucify him!") and many, many other delusions (about 84 000 in total I think).

If we indeed hold genuine pure view (I generally assume someone doesn't if they talk about it loosely), then we understand that it is still appropriate to act in accordance with convention, for reasons of example, safety, compassion, wisdom & our own spiritual progress.  If Buddha is manifesting as suffering sentient beings for my benefit, then I should relate to them as such and generate compassion.  If he manifests as a destroyer of the Dharma for me I should again generate compassion & do what I can to halt those actions.  We tried petitions, requests for discussions, chanting mantras etc. & none of it worked, the lineage was getting flushed down the pan.  So now we shout.  Compassionately, in accordance with the law, both worldly law & the law of Dharma.

[DharmaDefender]

DharmaDefender -

i quite agree: by all means, please, work to flourish the practice of Dorje Shugden and Je Tsongkhapa's lineage.  of course this is important.  but the WSS does not exist for this function.  it exists - solely - to stop the Dalai Lama's ban from destroying the lineage.  in many ways, it is a political activist group in terms of its actions, but the - crucial - difference is that its aim is entirely spiritual.  it will dissolve as soon as the Dalai Lama either publicly and effectively revokes his ban and states that Shugden practitioners are Buddhists who should be welcomed back into society, or has the power of his speech to create division entirely destroyed.  it does not seek any political aim.  however, it is not a spiritual organisation in the sense that it does not exist to teach Dharma or to build Temples, etc., yet of course its aim is spiritual.

i guess that our religious organisations such as Shar Ganden, NKT, etc. are analogous to teaching Buddhas, while WSS is analogous to a Dharma Protector.

also - i have been present at almost all WSS protests and most of the SSC's protests in the 90s and i can tell you from my own experience that while we may not be all of us Bodhisattvas yet these protests have ALL been conducted with happy and compassionate minds, however wrathful we've appeared.  the press always seem to photograph us in mid-cry, fists raised, passion on our faces.  they never seem to show us cheering and then falling about laughing between choruses, or smiling and sharing sandwiches and juice at lunchtime!

But the WSS are only protecting one lineage at the cost of many others. It's been pointed out in the past that the Dalai Lama's image is the gateway for many into Buddhism. Whether they take him as their guru, or whether they become lasting practitioners is another story but many are attracted to Buddhism because of his happy face.

I do like your analogy!

No, you're right, the press never capture the less raucous moments because it never makes for good headline news!

[Middleway]

But the WSS are only protecting one lineage at the cost of many others. It's been pointed out in the past that the Dalai Lama's image is the gateway for many into Buddhism. Whether they take him as their guru, or whether they

erm, cause & effect. The WSS are not suppressing Religious freedom, the DL is! I point people again to the recent child abuse scandal in the Irish Catholic church where covering up evil in order to 'protect people's faith' has done just the opposite. What is a cause of breaking faith? What is a cause of faith? Please think through then respond.