Why does Lama Zopa and FPMT still keep statues of Lama Yeshe on their shrines?

[Harold Musetescu]

Yes Lama Zopa did not stand up to the Dalai Lama and his CTA over Dorje Shugden.

H.H. the 41st Sakya Trizin did not stand up to the Dalai Lama and his CTA over Dorje Shugden.

The present Trijang Rinpoche travels with body guards.

The current incarnation of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen has never been seen publicly and is most likely hiding out of fear of assassination.

Tsem Tulku hid the fact that he was a follower of Dorje Shugden for years and only came out in the last few years to tell us the truth.

Tibetan monks and nuns have lost their monasteries.

Tibetan followers of Dorje Shugden have lost their jobs and live in fear for their and their families lives.

Easy to be brave sitting at you computer and not using your real names on this site like I do, Harold Musetescu.

But not so easy to be brave in the real world where it could cost you everything, including your life.

[Drolma]

Thank you thaimonk for posting. There is just too many clear evidence showing how devoted Lama Yeshe is towards his Gurus and also towards his protector Dorje Shugden. I doubt that Lama Yeshe would ever give up his Guru and practice just to be seen to be politically correct.

So why is FPMT so hung up over be "pure" and "clean" while they worship Lama Yeshe who is a Shugden devotee through and through? How can they go around condemning and discriminating other Lamas and practitioners while the worship and seek blessings from a Shugden Lama?

I also heard that awhile back Tsem Tulku actually donated a huge 3 feet Lama Tsongkhapa statue with his 2 heart disciples to Root Institue in Bodhgaya. Now we all know that Tsem Tulku is a huge advocate for lifting the Shugden ban through peaceful means, so why is FPMT keeping a Shugden Lama's gift? Shouldn't it be considered unpure and unclean, hence returned to the sponsor(s)? I believe the picture below will show you the statue that Tsem Tulku donated in the past.


alumina melting temperature

How does giving up the practice given by the guru make a center pure and clean? To begin with, the center is founded by a Dorje Shugden lama, the donations to build the center came from Dorje Shugden practitioners. Everything FPMT has now now was the result of the great effort put in by Dorje Shugden practitioners.

The teachings they have received are from Dorje Shugden lamas. The fact that the FPMT or Lama Zopa has given up Dorje Shugden practice does not make FPMT or Lama Yeshe clean because all the knowledge Lama Yeshe has, came from Dorje Shugden lamas. If he continues to spread Dharma, which was passed down to him by a Dorje Shugden lama, does it mean he is not teaching pure Dharma since Dorje Shugden is equivalent to impurity? How is it possible an impure monk like Lama Yeshe can give pure teaching?

If FPMT's teachings are pure, it means what Lama Yeshe has taught Lama Zopa was pure. If the teachings of Lama Yeshe were pure, it means Lama Yeshe was pure. If Lama Yeshe was pure it means Dorje Shugden is pure! It cannot be everything about Lama Yeshe is pure except for the Dorje Shugden practice. All gurus are perfect, how can Lama Yeshe have faults? FPMT really have to look at their own logic.

[Drolma]

I think FPMT just wants to be in Dalai Lama's good book so they did not think too much of their action. They did not think people will start questioning them the logic behind giving up Dorje Shugden practice and keeping Lama Yeshe's statue in their center. They just happily think they are pure and clean because they don't practice Dorje Shugden.

If FPMT is really so goody, they would have started their centers from scratch without using anything left behind by the Dorje Shugden practitioners. The statues they put on their altar should be the Dalai Lama since they are following the Dalai Lama's instructions. They have abandoned their teacher! It just shows how greedy FPMT is. They are profiting on Lama Yeshe's attainments!

Lama Yeshe was a great lama who spread Dharma in the western world. Many still respect Lama Yeshe until today. His achievements are a great tool to give FPMT a very prestigious status and can help to draw many students to their centers. So FPMT is, in fact, making use of Lama Yeshe's fame to make money. No wonder Lama Osel refuses to go back to FPMT and remains as an ordinary person.

[Alex]

I think FPMT just wants to be in Dalai Lama's good book so they did not think too much of their action. They did not think people will start questioning them the logic behind giving up Dorje Shugden practice and keeping Lama Yeshe's statue in their center. They just happily think they are pure and clean because they don't practice Dorje Shugden.

If FPMT is really so goody, they would have started their centers from scratch without using anything left behind by the Dorje Shugden practitioners. The statues they put on their altar should be the Dalai Lama since they are following the Dalai Lama's instructions. They have abandoned their teacher! It just shows how greedy FPMT is. They are profiting on Lama Yeshe's attainments!

Lama Yeshe was a great lama who spread Dharma in the western world. Many still respect Lama Yeshe until today. His achievements are a great tool to give FPMT a very prestigious status and can help to draw many students to their centres. So FPMT is, in fact, making use of Lama Yeshe's fame to make money. No wonder Lama Osel refuses to go back to FPMT and remains as an ordinary person.

FPMT is just a dharma centre that is not sincere to their dharma practice. Just like what Drolma had pointed out, if they are really sincere about their practice and really believes that Dorje Shugden is a demon and harmful to them, they would have started their own centre instead of continuing what Lama Yeshe had left behind. Since they regard Dorje Shugden is a demon, that means Lama Yeshe is a demon practitioner. Why would they want to continue a lineage of a demon practitioner and continue to use his centre? Why it is okay to use a demon practitioner's centre to continue with their Dharma activities?

On the other hand, they kept Lama Yeshe's statues in their centre while calling Dorje Shugden practitioners, demon practitioner. They are literally keeping a demon practitioner on their altar. How can they say their lineage is pure? They are being extremely hypocritical on their practices and only do what benefits them.

They had broken their samaya severely when they renounced Dorje Shugden practice. The effect is clearly seen when we observe Lama Osel. He now disrobes and avoiding monastic life. He is not interested in Dharma and prefers to have a secular life instead. If FPMT continues their stunt, Lama Osel will leave FPMT when the negative karma overwhelms their merit to receive Dharma from their root Guru. That will be the real tragedy. This is the result of prioritising the eight worldly dharmas over Guru devotion.

[PrajNa]

How does giving up the practice given by the guru make a center pure and clean? To begin with, the center is founded by a Dorje Shugden lama, the donations to build the center came from Dorje Shugden practitioners. Everything FPMT has now now was the result of the great effort put in by Dorje Shugden practitioners.

The teachings they have received are from Dorje Shugden lamas. The fact that the FPMT or Lama Zopa has given up Dorje Shugden practice does not make FPMT or Lama Yeshe clean because all the knowledge Lama Yeshe has, came from Dorje Shugden lamas. If he continues to spread Dharma, which was passed down to him by a Dorje Shugden lama, does it mean he is not teaching pure Dharma since Dorje Shugden is equivalent to impurity? How is it possible an impure monk like Lama Yeshe can give pure teaching?

If FPMT's teachings are pure, it means what Lama Yeshe has taught Lama Zopa was pure. If the teachings of Lama Yeshe were pure, it means Lama Yeshe was pure. If Lama Yeshe was pure it means Dorje Shugden is pure! It cannot be everything about Lama Yeshe is pure except for the Dorje Shugden practice. All gurus are perfect, how can Lama Yeshe have faults? FPMT really have to look at their own logic.

This is so true. If a Lama is still alive and gave up Dorje Shugden practice, then perhaps he can be considered "pure" now. But Lama Yeshe and many other Dorje Shugden lamas who taught at FPMT has passed away, so how can they be pure if they didn't give up Dorje Shugden before they passed away? Hence Lama Yeshe is not pure. "Pure" in Dharamsala's term is someone who now renounce Dorje Shugden.

[fruven]

It happens many years ago. A monk Kopan monastery secretly went to Phelgye Ling monastery to request Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.

[Alex]

It happens many years ago. A monk Kopan monastery secretly went to Phelgye Ling monastery to request Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.

This is interesting to know. Even though those monks who abandoned this protector practice, deep down they know what is the true nature of Dorje Shugden. During the darkest hour, they will seek this Protector's help instead of doing other protector Pujas. They know that Dorje Shugden will definitely help and his puja is the most effective among all the protectors because of his karma is the strongest with us.

The reason they abandon the practice is their own personal reasons and it is not because Dorje Shugden is a demon. Most of the people who give up the practice chose the eight worldly dharmas over their protector. Some even broke their samaya just to be politically correct just like FPMT students.

There is another possibility for why the monk requested a Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa could be Lama Zopa himself was the one who wanted it? It is possible that Lama Zopa knew that at that time only Dorje Shugden can help him and so he sent someone to request the puja at Phelgyeling Monastery. Now we know, Dorje Shugden remains as the beacon of hope even for those who had abandoned him when the darkest hours comes.

[Harold Musetescu]

Maybe just maybe some Tulku could just make Dorje Shugden a YIDAM.

Our efforts should be about making Dorje Shugden a YIDAM an not what Lama Zopa is or is not doing.

Make Dorje Shugden a YIDAM!!!!

Who cares what the CTA and Dalai Lama would say about it they HATE US!!!

[dsnowlion]

It happens many years ago. A monk Kopan monastery secretly went to Phelgye Ling monastery to request Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.

This is interesting to know. Even though those monks who abandoned this protector practice, deep down they know what is the true nature of Dorje Shugden. During the darkest hour, they will seek this Protector's help instead of doing other protector Pujas. They know that Dorje Shugden will definitely help and his puja is the most effective among all the protectors because of his karma is the strongest with us.

The reason they abandon the practice is their own personal reasons and it is not because Dorje Shugden is a demon. Most of the people who give up the practice chose the eight worldly dharmas over their protector. Some even broke their samaya just to be politically correct just like FPMT students.

There is another possibility for why the monk requested a Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa could be Lama Zopa himself was the one who wanted it? It is possible that Lama Zopa knew that at that time only Dorje Shugden can help him and so he sent someone to request the puja at Phelgyeling Monastery. Now we know, Dorje Shugden remains as the beacon of hope even for those who had abandoned him when the darkest hours comes.

You are right Alex... Dorje Shugden never abandons anyone. It is us who abandon him when we choose to act out our negative ways. And if he cannot assist or help us, it is not his fault but more of ours as we create the negative karma for him to be able to reach out to us. Like a dark veil covering his eyes literally is what the senior monks tell us. This is why when the protector comes and take trance in an oracle, you see him constantly wiping his face. Actually what he is doing is wiping away our accumulated negative karma.

So whatever negative karma that would ripen upon us, it is not due to giving up on Dorje Shugden, it is not Dorje Shugden punishing us, but more we who severed his hand from helping us that holds back our negative karma. So once that hand is gone, all the negative karma comes pouring in. The floodgates of karma are opened, hence we experience all the negative things which we would have experienced in our life but did not because of him, comes crashing down in a huge snowball. So, of course, it is going to appear like a huge avalanche coming down on us. Therefore we should not ask why or blame Dorje Shugden when that happens. Those who does clearly did not learn or believe in Dharma.

[Tracy]

Lama Zopa was recognised by Dorje Shugden! http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/who-made-lama-zopa-a-rinpoche/

Dorje Shugden is very well-known for his clairvoyance and the accuracy of his prophecy. Many people ask him for advice through the Oracle and his advice really works if we follow through. Don't forget he was the one who guided the Dalai Lama to escape from Tibet. When the reincarnation of a high lama is found, he will also be asked to confirm the recognition.

I am not surprised Lama Zopa was also recognised by Dorje Shugden. At the time when there was no ban, it was only natural to seek an audience with Dorje Shugden to ask for his confirmation. His endorsement is so reliable that no one will question that.

Lama Zopa dare not deny he was recognised by Dorje Shugden. If he denies it, it means he is not a Tulku. However, since he is not denying it, he is saying Dorje Shugden is right! If that is the case, how can he say Dorje Shugden is a spirit? Why did he go against his beloved guru, Lama Yeshe and said his guru was wrong?

[Drolma]

When is Lama Osel going back to FPMT? Lama Zopa is quite old now and after his stroke, he does not look so well. At his age, he should retire and stop travelling.

At the moment, Lama Zopa seems to be the only highly qualified and famous lama in FPMT. There is no other teacher in FPMT as famous as he is. If Lama Zopa and the Dalai Lama pass away, what would happen to FPMT if Lama Osel does not want to go back to lead the center?

The students should realise that there should always be a highly qualified teacher in the center especially for an organisation as big as FPMT. They should quickly repair their samaya with Lama Osel to create the cause and generate merits to have him back. Lama Osel's previous life was a great teacher, if the condition is conducive, I believe he can also be as successful as his previous life even though he has disrobed now.

[Alex]

When is Lama Osel going back to FPMT? Lama Zopa is quite old now and after his stroke, he does not look so well. At his age, he should retire and stop travelling.

At the moment, Lama Zopa seems to be the only highly qualified and famous lama in FPMT. There is no other teacher in FPMT as famous as he is. If Lama Zopa and the Dalai Lama pass away, what would happen to FPMT if Lama Osel does not want to go back to lead the center?

The students should realise that there should always be a highly qualified teacher in the center especially for an organisation as big as FPMT. They should quickly repair their samaya with Lama Osel to create the cause and generate merits to have him back. Lama Osel's previous life was a great teacher, if the condition is conducive, I believe he can also be as successful as his previous life even though he has disrobed now.

Lama Osel has to go back to FPMT or the fate of FPMT will not be pretty at all. Without their spiritual guide, the centre will probably not be as good as before. All of these are a direct result of their broken samaya with Lama Yeshe. The centre chose to give up Dorje Shugden practice which is one of Lama Yeshe main protector practice.

Lama Yeshe had repeatedly told everyone that he accredited the success of his centres to Dorje Shugden because without Dorje Shugden FPMT will not be as big as it is today. Hence, when the students chose to give up a practice that was given by Lama Yeshe without his permission will be breaking their Guru samaya. Just to be politically correct and not being outcasted, FPMT chooses to break their samaya with Lama Yeshe which is stupid.

Now that Lama Osel is no longer a monk and start to be more interested in secular life, FPMT will lose their spiritual guide if they do not mend their samaya quickly. A dharma centre that has broken samaya with their spiritual guide is a centre that has no blessings from all the lineage lamas. Whatever activity that is being done at the centre will not bear fruit.

[mountains]

FPMT likes to criticize other dharma centres for practicing Dorje Shugden. Their founding teacher Lama Yeshe was a Dorje Shugden practitioner till the end. Yet by right, they should abandon him but they instead make statues of him and place on their shrines? What do you call that?

[Tracy]

I wonder what is the plan of FPMT when Lama Zopa is not around anymore. At the moment, Lama Zopa is the only 'brand' FPMT has to attract sponsors and students. No other lama in FPMT has a reputation comparable to Lama Zopa.

The only way FPMT can maintain its reputation, sponsors and students will be the coming back of Lama Osel, whose previous life founded FPMT. Unfortunately, due to the broken Samaya of the students, Lama Osel chose to disrobe and live as a layperson. He is not so much involved in the teaching scene.

However, if the students repair their Samaya with Lama Osel and create harmony in their center, there is a chance Lama Osel will still come back to FPMT and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma. The first thing FPMT has to do is to stop discriminating Dorje Shugden practitioners and stop spreading false negative news about Dorje Shugden. They should always remember the manifestation of FPMT is through the assistance and blessings of Dorje Shugden.

[Alex]

I wonder what is the plan of FPMT when Lama Zopa is not around anymore. At the moment, Lama Zopa is the only 'brand' FPMT has to attract sponsors and students. No other lama in FPMT has a reputation comparable to Lama Zopa.

The only way FPMT can maintain its reputation, sponsors and students will be the coming back of Lama Osel, whose previous life founded FPMT. Unfortunately, due to the broken Samaya of the students, Lama Osel chose to disrobe and live as a layperson. He is not so much involved in the teaching scene.

However, if the students repair their Samaya with Lama Osel and create harmony in their center, there is a chance Lama Osel will still come back to FPMT and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma. The first thing FPMT has to do is to stop discriminating Dorje Shugden practitioners and stop spreading false negative news about Dorje Shugden. They should always remember the manifestation of FPMT is through the assistance and blessings of Dorje Shugden.

This is very weird to see FPMT still keeping images of their founder Lama Yeshe when they decided to abandon the Dorje Shugden practice that he gave them and aligned with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They are condemning Dorje Shugden practitioners to be a spirit worshipping and not to have anything to do with them.

However, they tend to forget that their founder, Lama Yeshe is a huge Dorje Shugden practitioners and he is unfit to be worshipped since he is a spirit worshipper which is against the law of Lord Buddha. Not to mention that all their teachings that they got including the vows of those ordained people came from this spirit worshipping lama.

If that is the case, then all of their dharma and vows will be invalid and they need to get them from a proper lama again. But obviously, they do not want to do that because the whole FPMT will be in a deep mess since everything they have will be invalidated.