karma and dorje shugden

[Ensapa]

It puzzles me that people get so angry and hateful towards DS practitioners but if the practice was really as EVVVVVILLLLL and HARRRMMMMFUL as it is said, then just believe that the practitioners will have to suffer their own karma if they wish to continue the practice. Why does it matter to you if they practice or not? They will suffer their own karma, whatever they do in life and whatever them practice is, so just leave them to it!

THIS IS WHAT I WAS THINKING TOO. IF THE DS PRACTICE IS EVIL , AS A BUDDHIST ( OR AS HUMAN ) THEY SHOULD HAVE COMPASSION TOWARDS THE DS PRACTITIONER AND SHOULD TRY TO HELP THEM GET OUT OF THE
VICE WITH COMPASSIONED HEART - BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Well, some people have this crusader complex where they would like to believe that they are doing is right, because they themselves are not secure in their own practice and thus try to cover their insecurities by having a crusader complex, where they think that they are doing the world and Buddhism a favor by destroying evil "actively" when they could really be practicing Dharma.

When we don't practice Dharma, we can feel it when we mix with other practitioners or Dharma texts point out and expose our weaknesses even if it is done subconsciously. That pain manifests as insecurity and some people think that the best way to cover insecurity is to dig at the weaknesses of others, instead of working to patch up their weaknesses so that they do not have that anymore.

Even online, forums that talk on negative things about other centers, lamas, practitioners, practices or lineages are more active than those who do not discuss such things. Everyone wants to be a judge themselves and "buddhists" are not an exception although those who really apply the teachings will find that there is no time to judge others and dedicate all their time to patching themselves up.

Most of the people in more "advanced" asian countries such as singapore would "pray" for DS practitioners and feel sorry for them. This is an improvement from their western counterparts, but the only thing is that they tend to also listen and spread to rumors more and pollute the minds of people with unfounded rumors about DS.

[bambi]

Oh Honey Dakini, you are so right, straight to the point and with logical points! Well, it's the same as forcing people to swear in for not practicing Dorje Shugden when the it is already so straight in your face facts. Why can't we just practice and live in peace and not be ostracized? If they can believe that the Dalai Lama is AVALOKITESVARA, why NOT believe that DORJE SHUGDEN is MANJUSHRI??? And YES, if we are practicing someone who is evil and harmful, that would just mean that we are the ones who will collect the karma from it and no one else! Please have compassion instead of IGNORANCE!!! Leave the Dorje Shugden practitioners alone and LIFT THE BAN! Stop harming people with your lies and make them collect the negative karma instead!

[pgdharma]

Oh Honey Dakini, you are so right, straight to the point and with logical points! Well, it's the same as forcing people to swear in for not practicing Dorje Shugden when the it is already so straight in your face facts. Why can't we just practice and live in peace and not be ostracized? If they can believe that the Dalai Lama is AVALOKITESVARA, why NOT believe that DORJE SHUGDEN is MANJUSHRI??? And YES, if we are practicing someone who is evil and harmful, that would just mean that we are the ones who will collect the karma from it and no one else! Please have compassion instead of IGNORANCE!!! Leave the Dorje Shugden practitioners alone and LIFT THE BAN! Stop harming people with your lies and make them collect the negative karma instead!

Yes why can't they leave Dorje Shugden practitioners alone. Why can't they believe that Dorje Shugden is Manjushri? Even if we practice Dorje Shugden whom they claimed is a spirit what has it got to do with them? As a Dorje Shugden practitioner, I have not experience negativity caused by Dorje Shugden. In fact, I would say I have received much help after propitiating Him and I do believe that others also receive the benefits after propitiating Dorje Shugden. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit and can cause harm, can there be so many big DS monasteries with big statues and DS practitioners spreading and flourishing all over the world?

[Rihanna]

That's right Honey Dakini. Why don't the anti shugdenpas just mind their own business! If for whatever strange reasons they are against DS, may it be so; their loss BUT leave us alone. Why their loss?? Look at all the Lamas who practiced DS and their reincarnation now. They have big ladrangs, and the number of centres are growing.  Then again, they are mostly peasants or peasants' like mind although outwardly they may be wearing robes and/or carrying some big shot title. You said it well; if they believe HHDL to be an emanation of Avalokiteshvara, they are contradicting their beliefs that DS can harm HHDL. It is a clear reflection of their minds, or stupidity! Need we say more?

[Tenzin Malgyur]

I agree with Honeydakini  that all the criticsm and attacks on DS practitioners is very illogical and pointless. We should really be well informed and sure of what we are following or doing. I have read that we have more than 10 years to check out our intended guru. So Buddhism does not teach us to follow blindly. I am really thankful to your website for providing us with so much facts and information related to Buddhism and especially to Dorje Shugden which most people would avoid talking about. And most of all, we DS practitioners do not hate HHDL in fact we have the highest respect for him.

[Ensapa]

I think the main issue here is not exactly with the ban but with the people who are actually going overboard with being puritan and to be on the right side of the fence. HHDL only advices against it but not go to the point of isolating and discriminating against people who practice them. HHDL never gave permission to gossip about which Lama is practicing Dorje Shugden and create trouble for those who do.

If we look at it, there are even western nuts who go on a complete and irrational crusade against Dorje Shudgen practitioners. I have met some who think would actually write letters to lamas and threaten them to abandon the practice or else they will destroy the center or actually harm the lama. And we are not talking about uneducated Tibetans here, we are talking about westerners.

The only thing they base this on is nothing more than what HHDL said to abandon the practice and that the practice is harmful. But they cannot and can never tell you why is Dorje Shugden harmful. Nor can they answer any questions associated with Dorje Shugden or why is he bad in the first place. They will just go into another bout of fanaticism and will shut you off instead…because they did not do their homework.

If this is not blatant blind faith, what is? Why does Buddhism even have space for this to happen? Why do things just to be on the right political side or out of fanatic admiration? should you not be at least, educated about what you are against?

[Gabby Potter]

People often call themselves Buddhists but they don't act like Buddhists, if they believe in Buddha and karma, then they should understand the fact that degrading someone else's religious practise is not a very dharmic act.

[Dondrup Shugden]

As I read through this post the most interesting question asked was whether those who listen to the Dalai Lama and stop propitiating would attract negative Karma.

My humble view is that it will not as long as they follow to the exact instructions of the Dalai Lama who said that He would bear all consequences of negative karma. However if they start to discriminate and ill treat Shugdenpas then they will create negativities.

My next question is since the Dalai Lama is a Buddha Chenrizig then He has no karma as he is enlightened.  So what do you think will happen to those who follow His instructions?  Looks like taking this question round and round like a vicious cycle.  Hmmmm!!!!