The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[pemachen]

Not only the Dalai Lama has the capability to recognise a real reincarnation, the CTA has the capability too! Look at how they condemn the 'fake' Panchen Lama recognised by the Chinese government, the CTA is very sure which is the real one and which is the fake one. If they are so capable, why are they keeping quiet now?

But hang on, can the Dalai Lama be wrong? He was so sure who was the real Panchen Lama. But recently, he said the Chinese recognised Panchen Lama is real too! So can we still believe what the Dalai Lama said? Perhaps the Karmapa recognised by the Dalai Lama is a fake? People are demanding the CTA and the Dalai Lama to give an answer because they are not sure anymore.

It is very unfair of the CTA for not further clarifying who the real Karmapa is. If the practitioners follow the fake Karmapa, they will be following the fake teaching, if they follow the fake teaching, they will go to hell. This is no joke. But it seems like the CTA does not care about the spirituality of the practitioners, they only care about their face and what benefit they can get from doing something.

It is true,  how the CTA condemn the 'fake' Panchen Lama recognised by the Chinese government, and also giving Karmapa Thaye Dorje a hard time, you can read all about it here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/the-karmapa-oppressed-by-dalai-lama-loyalists/

So why is the CTA quiet suddenly? Now that Tibetans are made very confused with the 2 Panchen Lamas, 2 Karmapas and so on, why not clarify and condemn the fake ones now?  CTA has to tell the Tibetans who is the real one and who is the fake one. Otherwise, this will not end, and this problem all started with the CTA.

[Rowntree]

The CTA is very good at telling people which Panchen Lama is the fake one but they didn't bother to tell us which one is the fake Karmapa. Strange? Not at all. The CTA does not want to be seen interfering other lineage's matters. This is why they use the Panchen Lama and Dorje Shugden as a scapegoat to deceive the public of the truth.

I wonder if Tibetan leadership will announce which is the fake Karmapa? Even if both are the emanation Tibetan leadership should say something and don't keep quite. Both Karmapa has their own followers and any announcement could give an impact to either one. Tibetan leadership has to be very careful and caution on this. They have intervened into the recognition of the Karmapa which is not according to the tradition and anything goes wrong Tibetan leadership has to take full responsibility.

[pemachen]

Exactly. Why are they so quiet about the Karmapa issue? Perhaps they are hoping they can persuade Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to be on their side again. Perhaps they are trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be THE Karmapa since Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has now abandoned the CTA. You know, they lost both Karmapa, that's the bottom line, so they don't want to say which is fake and which is real, they want to see who they can get on their side. I think that's why. What do you think, Rowntree?

The CTA is very good at telling people which Panchen Lama is the fake one but they didn't bother to tell us which one is the fake Karmapa. Strange? Not at all. The CTA does not want to be seen interfering other lineage's matters. This is why they use the Panchen Lama and Dorje Shugden as a scapegoat to deceive the public of the truth.

[Tracy]

It is not difficult to see how the CTA operates. Everything they do,  they make sure they get benefits for themselves. It is never about the welfare or benefits of the Tibetans.

In the beginning, the CTA happily 'recognised' the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley who escaped from China to India because the CTA was already planning to groom the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley as the successor of the Dalai Lama. It is not because they want to preserve the precious Karma Kagyu lineage or being the mediator to help to resolve the conflict in Karma Kagyu lineage. Their involvement in the two Karmapas issue had actually complicated the things and cause more tension in Karma Kagyu lineage.

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away from India and never to come back, the CTA has not said anything to clear people's doubts. The two Karmapas met up, what's next? This is what people are interested to know but the CTA remains quiet about it. The reason is simple, there is no benefit for CTA to get further involved in this issue so they refuse to react to it.

[Alex]

Exactly. Why are they so quiet about the Karmapa issue? Perhaps they are hoping they can persuade Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to be on their side again. Perhaps they are trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be THE Karmapa since Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has now abandoned the CTA. You know, they lost both Karmapa, that's the bottom line, so they don't want to say which is fake and which is real, they want to see who they can get on their side. I think that's why. What do you think, Rowntree?

The CTA is very good at telling people which Panchen Lama is the fake one but they didn't bother to tell us which one is the fake Karmapa. Strange? Not at all. The CTA does not want to be seen interfering other lineage's matters. This is why they use the Panchen Lama and Dorje Shugden as a scapegoat to deceive the public of the truth.

Don't be silly. They will never be able to get Karmapa Ogyen Trinley onto their side willingly ever again.they might be able to do it if they can blackmail him into it. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley ran away from them and took up a Dominican Republic passport. It is a clear sign that he wants to get away from the Tibetan government and to break free from the shackles that they had one him for decades.

The Tibetan government has not been treating him well and Ogyen Trinley openly rants about his dissatisfaction of the treatment he received. He is in a depression and he is not in a good shape after all during that public appearance. Why would anybody want to treat a monk so badly?

Now that Karmapa had left the Tibetan Leadership and they do not have anyone to take over Dalai Lama 's throne to control the Tibetans. No wonder they are so desperate until the point where they have to try their luck with the Karmapa that they rejected. Fortunately, Karmapa Thaye Dorje was not around at the Karma Kagyu Monlam at the time when the Tibetan government went to ambush him.

[pemachen]

In the beginning, the CTA happily 'recognised' the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley who escaped from China to India because the CTA was already planning to groom the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley as the successor of the Dalai Lama. It is not because they want to preserve the precious Karma Kagyu lineage or being the mediator to help to resolve the conflict in Karma Kagyu lineage. Their involvement in the two Karmapas issue had actually complicated the things and cause more tension in Karma Kagyu lineage.

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away from India and never to come back, the CTA has not said anything to clear people's doubts. The two Karmapas met up, what's next? This is what people are interested to know but the CTA remains quiet about it. The reason is simple, there is no benefit for CTA to get further involved in this issue so they refuse to react to it.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It is all because of CTA's involvement in the two Karmapas issue that complicated things and caused more tension in Karma Kagyu lineage.  Now what? Are they going to declare that both Karmapas are real or are they going to declare that both Karmapas are fake  ?

[Rowntree]

The CTA cannot handle the powerful Sharma Rinpoche and the white Karmapa recognised by him. Now that his reincarnation is born to the white Karmapa, they may be able to sweep the CTA to the bin and rule the Tibetans living outside of Tibet easily. With the Dalai Lama's old age and not granting private 1 on 1 audiences anymore, it is a clear indication that the CTA is winding down and everything is flushing down the drain! http://www.tibetanjournal.com/individual-audience-with-dalai-lama-will-no-longer-be-given/

Exactly. Why are they so quiet about the Karmapa issue? Perhaps they are hoping they can persuade Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to be on their side again. Perhaps they are trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be THE Karmapa since Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has now abandoned the CTA. You know, they lost both Karmapa, that's the bottom line, so they don't want to say which is fake and which is real, they want to see who they can get on their side. I think that's why. What do you think, Rowntree?

[Tenzin K]

Why CTA stays quiet and doesn't want to say anything? CTA had split this lineage by recognizing their own Karmapa and his successor had runaway too. Now really left no one for CTA. So now will CTA recognize the one and only left now? Whether it will be recognized by Dalai Lama it's no longer important because Karmapa Thaye Dorje doesn't need Dalai Lama recognization and Karmapa has their own tradition and culture.

[Rowntree]

If you remember the Dalai Lama went to the recent Kagyu Monlam venue with a group of reporters but greeted by the empty white Karmapa throne. The late Sharma Rinpoche has requested for the Dalai Lama to retrieve his recognition of the black Karmapa which he refused, hence the results. Now that the reincarnation of the Sharma Rinpoche is born in the white Karmapa family, we shall see a building force against the CTA, and sooner or later, the Tibetans will be split again like before the 5th Dalai Lama's time. There is no more Tibet. No more Tibetans. No more Tibetan leadership. All Tibetans will become Chinese and other races in the world. It is just too bad the efforts for centuries would end up in such sad state.

Don't be silly. They will never be able to get Karmapa Ogyen Trinley onto their side willingly ever again.they might be able to do it if they can blackmail him into it. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley ran away from them and took up a Dominican Republic passport. It is a clear sign that he wants to get away from the Tibetan government and to break free from the shackles that they had one him for decades.

The Tibetan government has not been treating him well and Ogyen Trinley openly rants about his dissatisfaction of the treatment he received. He is in a depression and he is not in a good shape after all during that public appearance. Why would anybody want to treat a monk so badly?

Now that Karmapa had left the Tibetan Leadership and they do not have anyone to take over Dalai Lama 's throne to control the Tibetans. No wonder they are so desperate until the point where they have to try their luck with the Karmapa that they rejected. Fortunately, Karmapa Thaye Dorje was not around at the Karma Kagyu Monlam at the time when the Tibetan government went to ambush him.

[Tracy]

So many scandals in the Tibetan community have surfaced, the CTA is still keeping quiet. As the leader of the Tibetans, and representing everything related to Tibetan, CTA has never made any statement to the public of the issues arise which affect the community negatively.

When it is about their own benefits, the CTA will spend a lot of money and effort to make sure their interest is protected. They will work so hard so that their objective is met. A very good example is the Dorje Shugden ban. Over the past 20 years, they have invested a lot of money to launch campaigns to undermine Dorje Shugden practitioners and the practice.

Since Karmapa is of no use to the CTA, it is not surprising that the CTA is not saying anything about it after the 2 Karmapas met up. They always avoid to have more works, what they want is to have people giving them money and they don't have to do anything.  They are a lame government, very lame.

[Alex]

Can you believe it? The Tibetan government still have not given us an answer on who is the real Karmapa and who is the imposter. Do they care about the practitioners who might be following the wrong Karmapa and go to hell after their deaths? WHy do they not clarify on this matter just like the Panchen Lama issue? They responded rather quickly for that but why so slow on Karmapa?

Since they already recognised Ogyen Trinley as their Karmapa candidate and His Holiness has been appearing in public places with him. It is obvious that they are endorsing him as the real Karmapa. Since they are already doing that, what did they hesitate to make a statement on that? It will be clear and everyone in the world will have a definitive answer.

The reason why CTA still reluctant to release the statement on who is the real Karmapa might be that they themselves are still unsure who is the real Karmapa or their candidate of Karmapa is not cooperating with what they want. CTA wanted to have a Karmapa that is willing to cooperate with what they want and adhere to their rules. Ogyen Trinley is not exactly the right candidate for that and hence, they are reluctant to announce that he is the real Karmapa. All CTA does is to benefit themselves and to manipulate the people around them to gain benefits out of the regardless who and what will get harmed in the process as the result.

[pemachen]

Can you believe it? The Tibetan government still have not given us an answer on who is the real Karmapa and who is the imposter. Do they care about the practitioners who might be following the wrong Karmapa and go to hell after their deaths? WHy do they not clarify on this matter just like the Panchen Lama issue? They responded rather quickly for that but why so slow on Karmapa?

Few days back, an estimated 7500 people packed the Tsuglagkhang, the Main Temple and Yard adjacent to His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s residence this morning to participate in offering prayers for his long-life. Karmapa is nowhere to be seen.  Why is it that they have not made any statement up till now? I guess they think they can hide and pretend nothing happened.


Representatives of the Tibetan religious traditions sitting in the front of the Main Tibetan Temple during the Long Life Offering Ceremony for His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, HP, India on May 17, 2019. Photo by Tenzin Choejor


Where is the Karmapa?
Which Karmapa is the real one?

[Tracy]

Karmapa is not coming back, that is the truth. Not even Tai Situ Rinpoche is able to convince him to come back. Look at him, he is sitting there representing the Karmapa maybe? Or he actually wants Karmapa to be out of the picture so he can have the power?

Sometimes I just don't understand why is Tibetan Buddhism so complicated, so much politic, so much greed, so much fight, so many scandals. Everything is about the face, about how to accumulate wealth at the expense of others. The Tibetans claim they are Buddhists but what they are doing is not that Buddhist at all.

It is very sad and disappointing that until now the CTA has not learned their lesson. They don't really care about the welfare of the Tibetans. CTA just want to have power and money and not doing anything. Personally, I think Tibetans are better off without the CTA.

[pemachen]

Karmapa is not coming back, that is the truth. Not even Tai Situ Rinpoche is able to convince him to come back. Look at him, he is sitting there representing the Karmapa maybe? Or he actually wants Karmapa to be out of the picture so he can have the power?

Sometimes I just don't understand why is Tibetan Buddhism so complicated, so much politic, so much greed, so much fight, so many scandals. Everything is about the face, about how to accumulate wealth at the expense of others. The Tibetans claim they are Buddhists but what they are doing is not that Buddhist at all.

It is very sad and disappointing that until now the CTA has not learned their lesson. They don't really care about the welfare of the Tibetans. CTA just want to have power and money and not doing anything. Personally, I think Tibetans are better off without the CTA.

It's not Tibetan Buddhism that is complicated, it's the Tibetans, especially the Central Tibetan Adminsitration in Dharamsala. Why can't they just make a simple thing clear? What is happening with the Karmapa? Which Karmapa is the real one? It's not complicated. They made it complicated because they messed around in the recognition and now the public doesn't know who to trust or believe. 

[PrajNa]

It's not Tibetan Buddhism that is complicated, it's the Tibetans, especially the Central Tibetan Adminsitration in Dharamsala. Why can't they just make a simple thing clear? What is happening with the Karmapa? Which Karmapa is the real one? It's not complicated. They made it complicated because they messed around in the recognition and now the public doesn't know who to trust or believe. 

I agree with you. Why does the Central Tibetan Administration avoid this topic? They are trying to cover up after the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley decided to not be their puppet. If Ogyen Trinley is the real Karmapa, they can still insist that he's the real Karmapa and that there's a situation happening, which the Karmapa will not be in Dharamsala for a period of time,  or something similar like that. I guess they are trying to hide the fact that they failed with the 'real' Karmapa, and now trying to befriend the 'fake' Karmapa Thaye Dorje, who is totally not interested or does not need CTA,