The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[pemachen]

CTA is really, really doing so much harm to their people and destroying the sacred Tibetan Buddhist lineages with so many doubts in the Masters and their teachings. How are they allowed to still be in existence? Pure lineages took centuries to establish in their true and trusted methods and yet, in just a few years, CTA managed to create so much distrust and damage the credibilities of true lineage Masters. CTA is nothing but the HERETICS of Tibetan Buddhism. Those who value their legacies of pure teachings and practices should join forces to oust the devils of Tibetan Buddhism.....

Give us back our faith and trust. Tell us who is real or fake. Double Karmapa, Panchen Lama, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, Serkong Rinpoche, etc. CTA, decide and let us know. We do not want to follow the wrong practice nor do we want to go to hell for the wrong practice. We are waiting for your announcement!!!

This is true. Tibetans are very confused on who to follow, and already Tibetans are losing unity because of being in exile and being scattered around the world. The Central Tibetan Administration is not making things easier.  Of course, many will follow His Holiness' the Dalai Lama's choice, but then that would mean the Tibetans will lose confidence in the lamas or the system who recognised these reincarnated lamas not chosen by His Holiness. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation. I wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism.

[Drolma]

CTA is really, really doing so much harm to their people and destroying the sacred Tibetan Buddhist lineages with so many doubts in the Masters and their teachings. How are they allowed to still be in existence? Pure lineages took centuries to establish in their true and trusted methods and yet, in just a few years, CTA managed to create so much distrust and damage the credibilities of true lineage Masters. CTA is nothing but the HERETICS of Tibetan Buddhism. Those who value their legacies of pure teachings and practices should join forces to oust the devils of Tibetan Buddhism.....

Give us back our faith and trust. Tell us who is real or fake. Double Karmapa, Panchen Lama, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, Serkong Rinpoche, etc. CTA, decide and let us know. We do not want to follow the wrong practice nor do we want to go to hell for the wrong practice. We are waiting for your announcement!!!

This is true. Tibetans are very confused on who to follow, and already Tibetans are losing unity because of being in exile and being scattered around the world. The Central Tibetan Administration is not making things easier.  Of course, many will follow His Holiness' the Dalai Lama's choice, but then that would mean the Tibetans will lose confidence in the lamas or the system who recognised these reincarnated lamas not chosen by His Holiness. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation. I wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism.

Until today, the CTA is not saying anything about the Karmapa yet especially after the 2 Karmapas had met up and after the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley decided to give up the Indian IC card. We need an answer from the CTA, they have to tell us which Karmapa is real and which is fake. We only follow the one chosen by the CTA.

The CTA has the experience to identify the real and the fake lama, see how the CTA told us the Chinese Panchen Lama is fake and not to follow him? They can consult Nechung oracle on this issue as well. It is important to know that because if we follow the wrong Karmapa, the teachings we receive will not have blessings, we will not have attainment, we might even end up in the hell realm.

Why double standard again? Why didn't the CTA run campaigns to condemn the fake Karmapa for deceiving people? The CTA has the responsibility to ensure the purity and preservation of a lineage. They must not let the fake Karmapa stain the Kagyu lineage. The CTA has done such a good job in preserving the Gelug lineage by banning Dorje Shugden practice, I am sure they can also protect the Kagyu lineage by identifying and advising us which Karmapa to follow. They must also condemn the fake Karmapa like how they do to Dorje Shugden so people don't follow the wrong path.

[Alex]

CTA is really, really doing so much harm to their people and destroying the sacred Tibetan Buddhist lineages with so many doubts in the Masters and their teachings. How are they allowed to still be in existence? Pure lineages took centuries to establish in their true and trusted methods and yet, in just a few years, CTA managed to create so much distrust and damage the credibilities of true lineage Masters. CTA is nothing but the HERETICS of Tibetan Buddhism. Those who value their legacies of pure teachings and practices should join forces to oust the devils of Tibetan Buddhism.....

Give us back our faith and trust. Tell us who is real or fake. Double Karmapa, Panchen Lama, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, Serkong Rinpoche, etc. CTA, decide and let us know. We do not want to follow the wrong practice nor do we want to go to hell for the wrong practice. We are waiting for your announcement!!!

This is true. Tibetans are very confused on who to follow, and already Tibetans are losing unity because of being in exile and being scattered around the world. The Central Tibetan Administration is not making things easier.  Of course, many will follow His Holiness' the Dalai Lama's choice, but then that would mean the Tibetans will lose confidence in the lamas or the system who recognised these reincarnated lamas not chosen by His Holiness. Either way, it's a lose-lose situation. I wonder if this is the beginning of the end of the Tulku system in Tibetan Buddhism.

Until today, the CTA is not saying anything about the Karmapa yet especially after the 2 Karmapas had met up and after the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley decided to give up the Indian IC card. We need an answer from the CTA, they have to tell us which Karmapa is real and which is fake. We only follow the one chosen by the CTA.

The CTA has the experience to identify the real and the fake lama, see how the CTA told us the Chinese Panchen Lama is fake and not to follow him? They can consult Nechung oracle on this issue as well. It is important to know that because if we follow the wrong Karmapa, the teachings we receive will not have blessings, we will not have attainment, we might even end up in the hell realm.

Why double standard again? Why didn't the CTA run campaigns to condemn the fake Karmapa for deceiving people? The CTA has the responsibility to ensure the purity and preservation of a lineage. They must not let the fake Karmapa stain the Kagyu lineage. The CTA has done such a good job in preserving the Gelug lineage by banning Dorje Shugden practice, I am sure they can also protect the Kagyu lineage by identifying and advising us which Karmapa to follow. They must also condemn the fake Karmapa like how they do to Dorje Shugden so people don't follow the wrong path.

I am quite sure CTA is ashamed of their own actions when the 2 Karmapas met up and decided to release a joint statement to urge for the unity of their followers to preserve their holy lineage and resolve the differences that have plagued them a quite a while now. If I am the shit stirrer who created all these problems, I would have shut up and hopefully, no one will notice what I did.

CTA has caused alot of troubles and problems to the Karma Kagyu lineage when they decided to use His Holiness to recognise another Karmapa candidate. However, due to their desperate nature to have the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje to be under their control, they overdid it and now Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje escaped from India and refuse to be subjected under CTA's control.

CTA has lost their only chance to have Karmapa over their side and there will not be another high lama at the same calibre that CTA can get their hands on. They have suffered a huge loss because of this. Their plans for the Karmapa to take over Dalai Lama's place after he had passed away flopped badly. They must be quite worried now. I wonder who will be the next puppet that they will get to replace Dalai Lama when he passed away.

[Harold Musetescu]

The CTA has officially recognized Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa as reported by Phayul.com on Friday March 17, 2017.

Here is the link.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=38870&t=1

March 31, 2017
Quote
The Tibetan leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the CTA recognize Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. However, the Indian government has not yet lifted the restriction it imposed on the young Lama to visit Rumtek, which is guarded by Indian paramilitary force (BSF).
Unquote

We all know that the CTA and the Dalai Lama have been telling us OFFICIALLY since 1992 that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa.

So can we stop playing this silly game of "The CTA MUST tell us who is the fake Karmapa"!!!!!

THEY HAVE SO LETS MOVE ON.

[Aurore]

We all know that the Dalai Lama and CTA recognised the Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. It doesn't mean he is the true Karmapa. We all know it's the Sharmapas who recognises the next Karmapas. Through the recognition by both the Dalai Lama & the Sharmapa (Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche Mipham Chokyi Lodro) of the 17th Karmapas, the Karma Kagyu sects was divided and been in rift since.

It is NOT the Tibetan leadership's job to recognise the Karmapa by tradition. So why would the Dalai Lama reject the Karmapa Thaye Dorje when so many highly attained lamas from various lineages recognized and accept him? Could it be because he's fake?

Now that Thaye Dorje's son could be the Sharmapa, is he still the "fake" Karmapa? Would really want to hear what the Tibetan leaders has to say about this!

The CTA has officially recognized Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa as reported by Phayul.com on Friday March 17, 2017.

Here is the link.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=38870&t=1

March 31, 2017
Quote
The Tibetan leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the CTA recognize Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. However, the Indian government has not yet lifted the restriction it imposed on the young Lama to visit Rumtek, which is guarded by Indian paramilitary force (BSF).
Unquote

We all know that the CTA and the Dalai Lama have been telling us OFFICIALLY since 1992 that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa.

So can we stop playing this silly game of "The CTA MUST tell us who is the fake Karmapa"!!!!!

THEY HAVE SO LETS MOVE ON.

[PrajNa]

The CTA has officially recognized Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa as reported by Phayul.com on Friday March 17, 2017.

Here is the link.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=38870&t=1

March 31, 2017
Quote
The Tibetan leader His Holiness the Dalai Lama and the CTA recognize Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa. However, the Indian government has not yet lifted the restriction it imposed on the young Lama to visit Rumtek, which is guarded by Indian paramilitary force (BSF).
Unquote

We all know that the CTA and the Dalai Lama have been telling us OFFICIALLY since 1992 that Ogyen Trinley Dorje is the 17th Karmapa.

So can we stop playing this silly game of "The CTA MUST tell us who is the fake Karmapa"!!!!!

THEY HAVE SO LETS MOVE ON.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has recently said that it is possible for Thaye Dorje to be the Karmapa too. Looks like this is the trend following the Panchen Lama's statement last year. So, CTA has to tell us which is the real Karmapa, now that His Holiness said it's possible to have a few reincarnations. So what about the 3rd claimant of Karmapa? He's a reincarnation too? 

While he said that it was possible for the 16th Karmapa to have a few reincarnations, the Dalai Lama made it amply clear that there should be only one holder of the seat of the 17th Karmapa. The 14th Dalai Lama chose to remain quiet as to who will decide on the holder of the heads of Tibetan schools of Buddhism with the presence of two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas and the Chinese government already initiating the process of anointing the 15th Dalai Lama.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/not-my-business-to-decide-on-successor-dalai-lama/story-pI7CFgqSFnmBg9ZSOvWMTP.html

[Drolma]

This is so confusing, the Dalai Lama always changes his tone. Who should we believe and what to believe? In the beginning, the CTA and the Dalai Lama said the Chinese Panchen Lama was fake. Many campaigns were launched by the CTA to condemn the fake Panchen Lama. Many years later, the Dalai Lama said the fake Panchen Lama might also be a real incarnation of the previous Panchen Lama.

For the Karmapas, it is the same again. The Dalai Lama has never met with the Karmapa Thaye Dorje, this shows that the Dalai Lama does not recognise him as the real Karmapa. Now, the Dalai Lama changed his tone to say the other Karmapa can also be real. Did the Dalai Lama say that because he can no longer control the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and he thinks he can somehow influence the Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be on his side?

Whatever it is, the CTA cannot keep quiet on the Karmapa issue. They are the authority to tell which Tibetan lamas are fake and which are real. They have put so much effort into condemning the fake Panchen Lama, why are they not doing that for the Kagyu lineage? Isn't it their job to make sure all the Tibetan Buddhist lineages remain pure?

[PrajNa]

This is so confusing, the Dalai Lama always changes his tone. Who should we believe and what to believe? In the beginning, the CTA and the Dalai Lama said the Chinese Panchen Lama was fake. Many campaigns were launched by the CTA to condemn the fake Panchen Lama. Many years later, the Dalai Lama said the fake Panchen Lama might also be a real incarnation of the previous Panchen Lama.

For the Karmapas, it is the same again. The Dalai Lama has never met with the Karmapa Thaye Dorje, this shows that the Dalai Lama does not recognise him as the real Karmapa. Now, the Dalai Lama changed his tone to say the other Karmapa can also be real. Did the Dalai Lama say that because he can no longer control the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley and he thinks he can somehow influence the Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be on his side?

Whatever it is, the CTA cannot keep quiet on the Karmapa issue. They are the authority to tell which Tibetan lamas are fake and which are real. They have put so much effort into condemning the fake Panchen Lama, why are they not doing that for the Kagyu lineage? Isn't it their job to make sure all the Tibetan Buddhist lineages remain pure?

Exactly to the point, Drolma. It's very confusing for the Tibetans, needless to say for non-Tibetans like us. You should have a look at the other thread, The hidden message in the Dalai Lama's speech! here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=6145.0

His Holiness is a really skilled orator and experienced politician. Some people think that in recent years, His Holiness had made many blunders, but I don't think so. I think all these are what His Holiness wants to bring the situation to certain results, although I don't know what  , I can't judege these high lamas and what they want to do with their skillful means.

Back to the Karmapa, yes CTA as the government should really make it clear who to support and not support. They were the one who made a decision who was real and who was fake in the past. So now that both Karmapas recognised each other as Karmapas, what's next? It could be diplomacy to have unity in Karma Kagyu. But His Holiness the Dalai Lama mentioned that there can only be one Karmapa. So who will be the real official Karmapa?

[dsnowlion]

His Holiness the Dalai Lama has recently said that it is possible for Thaye Dorje to be the Karmapa too. Looks like this is the trend following the Panchen Lama's statement last year. So, CTA has to tell us which is the real Karmapa, now that His Holiness said it's possible to have a few reincarnations. So what about the 3rd claimant of Karmapa? He's a reincarnation too? 

While he said that it was possible for the 16th Karmapa to have a few reincarnations, the Dalai Lama made it amply clear that there should be only one holder of the seat of the 17th Karmapa. The 14th Dalai Lama chose to remain quiet as to who will decide on the holder of the heads of Tibetan schools of Buddhism with the presence of two Panchen Lamas, two Karmapas and the Chinese government already initiating the process of anointing the 15th Dalai Lama.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/not-my-business-to-decide-on-successor-dalai-lama/story-pI7CFgqSFnmBg9ZSOvWMTP.html

I knew it! I knew this is what he is going to say next. So now what? For every high Lama the Dalai Lama recognises, there is a possibility of ANOTHER? So all these high lamas that he picked, that is always opposite of another high lama, authority's choice, just so happened there is a 2nd incarnation/emanation? Sounds a little bit too good to be true if you ask me.

Yes I do believe that high lamas can incarnate and they can emanate into many forms and have 5 possible forms of emanations; mind, body, activity, speech, and one more... who knows? But I don't think this is the case here for all the ones Dalai Lama recognised that opposes the other parties who have their own authority and tradition.

The issue here is the CTA lies, and they keep on lying and the slowly but surely the skeleton is being uncovered! Now let's here what they say about Thaye Dorje and did the Dalai Lama wanted to try to become friends now? 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama > http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=6240.0
He has never taken any pictures with Thaye Dorje... why did he crash the Bodhgaya Kagyu Monlam in hope to get a picture with him but what a slap in the fece, and Thaye Dorje purposely escaped the Dalai Lama. Looks like he did not want to meet the Dalai Lama and that's a clear indication he is for real... not a fake lama that wants to rub shoulders with the Dalai Lama for fame and fortune. He is saying outright, he doesn't need the Dalai Lama to help him or promote him cos he is authentic!?! Wow!

[PrajNa]

The issue here is the CTA lies, and they keep on lying and the slowly but surely the skeleton is being uncovered! Now let's here what they say about Thaye Dorje and did the Dalai Lama wanted to try to become friends now? 'Karmapa' Thaye Dorje rejects the Dalai Lama > http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=6240.0
He has never taken any pictures with Thaye Dorje... why did he crash the Bodhgaya Kagyu Monlam in hope to get a picture with him but what a slap in the fece, and Thaye Dorje purposely escaped the Dalai Lama. Looks like he did not want to meet the Dalai Lama and that's a clear indication he is for real... not a fake lama that wants to rub shoulders with the Dalai Lama for fame and fortune. He is saying outright, he doesn't need the Dalai Lama to help him or promote him cos he is authentic!?! Wow! [/size]

Exactly. You get very confused with the Central Tibetan Administration. Who is the real Karmapa? If Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is (was?) the real one, then why want to be chummy with Karmapa Thaye Dorje now? Perhaps since CTA has "lost" Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, now they are eyeing to control Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Maybe they will tell him that CTA will get His Holiness the Dalai Lama to endorse him as the real Karmapa since Karmapa Ogyen Trinley ran away from Dharamsala.

I would run away from Dharamsala too. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley was under strict scrutiny like in a prison and the Indian government, under the influence/instruction of CTA for sure, raided his office/premise and confiscated the money - almost USD1 million in cash, they have not return it until now. Luckily Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not cash-strapped.

[michaela]

Do watch the above video. This is the result of the confusion and conflict between the two Karmapa followers. The Central Tibetan Administration has been doing a good job to create schism and conflict among Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhism practitioners.

[dsnowlion]

Why did the Dalai Lama allow this? Why didn't they do anything to stop the schism and the fighting? It has to stop! The Tibetan government is really too much! The always poke their noses in other people's business and try to control us.

The reason is simple, they just want to exploit the Tibetans for their own greedy needs. Disgusting. It is such a shame to be known as a Buddhist government. They really destroy the dharma, people's lives and people's spirituality! Disgusting!!!

The Tibetan exile government better sort this out and tell the world who is the real Karmapa and stop all the violence already. Stop all the in-fighting and schism and broken up so many families and spiritual families between Guru and disciples. Karma Kagyu was united, just like Dorje Shugden was united with other Gelugs and had good harmonious relationship with all other sects until the disgusting CTA told lies and ban Dorje Shugden which they have no right to do and against human rights! Very very bad. They are worst than Trump because they are supposed to be Buddhist and have some dharma! Unfortunately, NOT.

[michaela]

Look at this video how much the Karmapa factions are fighting. The Tibetan government (The Central Tibetan Administration (CTA)) in exile is responsible for this. The CTA interfered in the Karmapa's recognition which resulted in more than one Karmapas. The situation causes confusion and unrest among the Karma Kagyu followers. The CTA is responsible for this mess, so they have to do something to solve this.

[SabS]

Look at this video how much the Karmapa factions are fighting. The Tibetan government (The Central Tibetan Administration (CTA)) in exile is responsible for this. The CTA interfered in the Karmapa's recognition which resulted in more than one Karmapas. The situation causes confusion and unrest among the Karma Kagyu followers. The CTA is responsible for this mess, so they have to do something to solve this.

This is how CTA had created the disharmony. By announcing who the right Karmapa is would have avoided this kind of unrest. Why does the CTA not care for their people but instead always created the conditions for unrest. They should worry about whether we are following the wrong Karmapa or not and make the announcement of who the real one is. Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje had always been thought to be the right one since he is constantly making appearances with the Dalai Lama but now, even the Dalai Lama don't know where he is after this Karmapa received his Dominican Republic passport. On top of that India is waiting for his return to level charges against him.

As for Karmapa Thaye Dorje which was recognised by the Sharmapa as lineage tradition dictates, he had been photographed with the Dalai Lama and he had to face tremendous obstacles wherever he went. Now he even has a baby rumoured to be the Sharmapa incarnate. And the Dalai Lama paid visit to the prayer event he was holding at Mahabodhi Temple in Bodhgaya. So now we are all very confused as to who is the right one. Are the Tibetan Leaders going to create more controversy like the Panchen Lama issue, Dorje Shugden issue, and all the many double cases of reincarnations? We want to know before we continue to follow the wrong one and end up in hell. Who is the real Karmapa?

[Tracy]

Why the double standard from the CTA again? For the Panchen Lama issue, the CTA is very vocal about it. They launch campaigns to let everyone know who is the real Panchen Lama and advise us not to follow the fake one. They do it to protect the purity of the lineage, it also clearly indicates that there can only be one Panchen Lama.

In the case of the Karmapa, why is the CTA not doing the same to protect the Karma Kagyu lineage? Why is the CTA not telling us who the real Karmapa aggressively? Is it because the Gelug lineage is more precious than the Karma Kagyu lineage? How can a government play favoritism?

Whether Gelug or Karma Kagyu lineage, they are both very precious. The CTA as the guardian to the Tibetan Buddhism as they claim, they should protect all lineages. They seem to put more effort and focus on Gelug lineage, why the favoritism? They are sectarian in this case because they care more about the Gelug lineage.