The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[SabS]

After such a long time of people asking the Tibetan Leaders to state who is the real Karmapa, no answer has been forthcoming. Guess they dare not! After all, with either one, they will be in the wrong.

If they go with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, he ran away and got himself a passport from Dominican Republic and stayed away from India for over a year. Indian government is seeking to persecute him for some alleged crimes and he received much publicity about his alleged affair with many girlfriends. He publically complained about his ordination from the Dalai Lama and his confined life.

As for Karmapa Thaye Dorje, well, he is giving the Tibetan Leaders the cold shoulder. And I don't blame him one bit. He was treated so shoddily back when he was young and Sharmapa requested for his recognition and ordination. So much respect given in the request when there was no need to the requests at all as Sharmapa himself has the authority to do either in lieu of the Karmapa. And in all these years, obstacles had always been created for Karmapa Thaye Dorje wherever he went, to put him down but it only made the fact of his attainment all the more as his enlightened activities grew in spite of all the ill intent. And now, Sharmapa has reincarnated as Karmapa Thaye Dorje's son.

So yeah, the Tibetan Leaders will not dare to declare this or that for they will be wrong themselves. Just as they had been wrong in many choices and decisions made that now are becoming apparent. Like the Chinese Panchen Lama as the real incarnate of the previous, the practice of enlightened protector Dorje Shugden, China's status in the world and even their own welcome in the world (we know that many countries are shunning them for the good relationship with China). Too bad, karma created is coming back to bite now.

[Alex]

After such a long time of people asking the Tibetan Leaders to state who is the real Karmapa, no answer has been forthcoming. Guess they dare not! After all, with either one, they will be in the wrong.

If they go with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, he ran away and got himself a passport from Dominican Republic and stayed away from India for over a year. Indian government is seeking to persecute him for some alleged crimes and he received much publicity about his alleged affair with many girlfriends. He publically complained about his ordination from the Dalai Lama and his confined life.

As for Karmapa Thaye Dorje, well, he is giving the Tibetan Leaders the cold shoulder. And I don't blame him one bit. He was treated so shoddily back when he was young and Sharmapa requested for his recognition and ordination. So much respect given in the request when there was no need to the requests at all as Sharmapa himself has the authority to do either in lieu of the Karmapa. And in all these years, obstacles had always been created for Karmapa Thaye Dorje wherever he went, to put him down but it only made the fact of his attainment all the more as his enlightened activities grew in spite of all the ill intent. And now, Sharmapa has reincarnated as Karmapa Thaye Dorje's son.

So yeah, the Tibetan Leaders will not dare to declare this or that for they will be wrong themselves. Just as they had been wrong in many choices and decisions made that now are becoming apparent. Like the Chinese Panchen Lama as the real incarnate of the previous, the practice of enlightened protector Dorje Shugden, China's status in the world and even their own welcome in the world (we know that many countries are shunning them for the good relationship with China). Too bad, karma created is coming back to bite now.

Sabs, you are absolutely correct regarding this and this is the reason why the Tibetan leadership has been very quiet about the Karmapa issue considering that they are the one who insisted to recognize Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. They made a lot of noise too when they recognize their own Panchen Lama and starts to talk bad about the Panchen Lama that was recognized by the Chinese.

They are the one who created the 2 Karmapa mess and they will have to suffer the consequences. The Tibetan leadership will suffer either way and they will not like it. This is why they should not have stuck their hand into the Karmapa issue within the Karma Kagyu sect.

Now that they are unable to get Karmapa Ogyen Trinley back, they will be panicking for the post-Dalai Lama era where His Holiness has passed away and the new reincarnation is not recognized yet. During this time, CTA needs a strong and powerful Lama to control the Tibetans and now since they do not have anyone that can replace His Holiness, their power will drop significantly and soon they will lose the influence on the Tibetans.

[pemachen]

I guess Tibetan leadership is regretting why they did not recognize Karmapa Thaye Dorje now because that Karmapa seems to be doing quite well especially that his son could be very well the Sharmapa. CTA sneakily wanted to get close to this Karmapa now because obviously, this Karmapa is way more powerful and influential than Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. That is why, they cannot announce who is the true Karmapa yet because they are trying to get Karmapa Ogyen Trinley under control and in the meantime, they are trying to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje.

Oh definitely they are trying to get chummy now, but Karmapa Thaye Dorje does not need the CTA for anything. Read up on the news about how His Holiness the Dalai Lama tried to show up and 'meet' Karmapa Thaye Dorje during the recent Kagyu Monlam 

[Tracy]

To be honest, I think the CTA is not going to say anything about the 2 Karmapas. We all know how the CTA operates, they don't operate based on doing the right thing, they operate based on their interest. Everything they do revolve around what they can get out of it.

When the CTA recognised the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, they wanted to groom him to become the next Dalai Lama, to use him to control people. It is definitely not because they were trying to resolve the dispute within the Karma Kagyu lineage. Unfortunately, their candidate ran away and he will never go back to them to become their puppet.

This is a big slap to the CTA, they must be very upset and angry with the Karmapa. Making a further announcement on who the real Karmapa is, does not bring benefit to the CTA at all. Therefore, it is not surprising the CTA is keeping quiet. The welfare of the Tibetans or spiritual practitioners is not CTA's concern, they only care about themselves.

[Harold Musetescu]

The CTA is not keeping quite about who is the real Karmapa.

They told the world years ago who was and who was not the real Karmapa.

What's all this made up BS about "CTA tell us who is the real Karmapa".

Time to grow up and move along to something more meaningful.
 

[pemachen]

Has anyone heard anything about the Dalai Lama trying to make a connection with Karmapa Thaye Dorje? Now that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is missing from the scene. Also, anyone heard any news from Karmapa Ogyen Trinley?

[Drolma]

Has anyone heard anything about the Dalai Lama trying to make a connection with Karmapa Thaye Dorje? Now that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is missing from the scene. Also, anyone heard any news from Karmapa Ogyen Trinley?

There were people saying that last December when the Karmapa Thaye Dorje was attending the Karma Kagyu Monlam festival, the Dalai Lama was trying to be friendly with him. However, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje ignored him. It is not surprising that the Karmapa ignored the Dalai Lama, it was the Dalai Lama who did not want to acknowledge the Karmapa Thaye Dorje in the first place.

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart not to be associated with the Dalai Lama or the CTA. If he is associated with them, he might be used as a political puppet and he will not be able to do as much Dharma work as he is doing now. Since every tradition in Tibetan Buddhism has its own tradition to recognise the reincarnation of their lamas, they really don't need any endorsement from the Dalai Lama.

As for the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, it is said that he is in a retreat now. He did not make any announcement on his sex scandal and there is no more update or news on the scandal. I find it weird because news like this especially when the famous Karmapa is involved it will create a big scene internationally but only Tawainese media were covering the news. It makes me wonder if it is another dirty job from the CTA trying to destroy Karmapa's reputation.

[Tracy]

Is the CTA going to announce who the real Karmapa is? It has been so long since the 2 Karmapas met up and the CTA has not said a single word on their meeting. As usual, when the CTA sees no benefit for them, they will not do anything.

In the past, the CTA recognised the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley because the CTA wanted to groom him to become the next Dalai Lama. They don't have their Panchen Lama and within the Gelug lineage, there is no other lama who has the same commanding power as the Dalai Lama. Hence, the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley became the next best candidate.

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away and the other Karmapa does not give face to the CTA, there is no point for the CTA to meddle in the 2 Karmapas issue anymore. If they make the announcement, they will create problems for themselves because people will doubt them and the Indian government will be very upset with the CTA. The CTA doesn't care if a lineage will continue on, they only care about their own financial interest.

[pemachen]

Is the CTA going to announce who the real Karmapa is? It has been so long since the 2 Karmapas met up and the CTA has not said a single word on their meeting. As usual, when the CTA sees no benefit for them, they will not do anything.

In the past, the CTA recognised the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley because the CTA wanted to groom him to become the next Dalai Lama. They don't have their Panchen Lama and within the Gelug lineage, there is no other lama who has the same commanding power as the Dalai Lama. Hence, the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley became the next best candidate.

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away and the other Karmapa does not give face to the CTA, there is no point for the CTA to meddle in the 2 Karmapas issue anymore. If they make the announcement, they will create problems for themselves because people will doubt them and the Indian government will be very upset with the CTA. The CTA doesn't care if a lineage will continue on, they only care about their own financial interest.

I am also wondering the same thing. Up till today, the CTA is still quiet about Karmapa Thaye Dorje. Will CTA try to be friendly with Karmapa Thaye Dorje soon since Karmapa Ogyen Trinley ran away?

[Alex]

The long song and dance about who is the real Karmapa is a show put up by the CTA to confuse the Karma Kagyu followers in order for CTA to control them much easier. Now that the Karmapa that they had chosen became less favorable due to all the scandals and problems that he had given CTA, CTA is trying to get close to the Karmapa that they do not recognize last time?

It seems like the whole holy sacred lineage of the Karmapa is a sandbox for CTA to play with. They can play around with the Karmapa as and when they like and changes their stance on the real Karmapa? They are very disrespectful to the lineage and holy beings thinking that they can manipulate them to their own favor.

Now both Karmapa refuses to listen to them and it is very obvious why it is so. But they still have to come up with a statement announcing who is the real Karmapa because of the whole mess that they had created by recognizing a Karmapa on their own against the objection from the Sharmapa who is the 2nd highest lama in Karma Kagyu lineage after the Karmapa.

[pemachen]

Now both Karmapa refuses to listen to them and it is very obvious why it is so. But they still have to come up with a statement announcing who is the real Karmapa because of the whole mess that they had created by recognizing a Karmapa on their own against the objection from the Sharmapa who is the 2nd highest lama in Karma Kagyu lineage after the Karmapa.

On a side note, the Kagyus are not always friendly with Tibetan leadership or Gaden Phodrang. The Kagyus are rumoured to have procured the Fifth Dalai Lama’s hair and placed it under the steps at the front entrance of Tsurphu Monastery. This was done deliberately so that all who entered the monastery would have to symbolically step over the Dalai Lama, which was considered a grave insult. This incident is one of many that tells of the historic enmity between the Karma Kagyus and the Fifth Dalai Lama and his government. It is rumoured that the Fifth Dalai Lama’s hair is still under the Tsurphu Monastery steps.

[SabS]

Now both Karmapa refuses to listen to them and it is very obvious why it is so. But they still have to come up with a statement announcing who is the real Karmapa because of the whole mess that they had created by recognizing a Karmapa on their own against the objection from the Sharmapa who is the 2nd highest lama in Karma Kagyu lineage after the Karmapa.

On a side note, the Kagyus are not always friendly with Tibetan leadership or Gaden Phodrang. The Kagyus are rumoured to have procured the Fifth Dalai Lama’s hair and placed it under the steps at the front entrance of Tsurphu Monastery. This was done deliberately so that all who entered the monastery would have to symbolically step over the Dalai Lama, which was considered a grave insult. This incident is one of many that tells of the historic enmity between the Karma Kagyus and the Fifth Dalai Lama and his government. It is rumoured that the Fifth Dalai Lama’s hair is still under the Tsurphu Monastery steps.

Wow! Thank you Pemachen for this interesting side note. It is funny how humans are when on one hand, we accept the Dalai Lamas and Karmapas as enlightened beings and on the other hand still have that mentality of seeing them as humans, subject to our pettiness. Placing of the 5th Dalai Lama's hair in the step seem so petty and often than not, it is those under the Dalai Lama that are the culprits. So why demean an attained being and create further karma? Lol!

[Drolma]

As the leadership of the Tibetans in the exiled community, the CTA definitely has the power to make things right. While the Dalai Lama is still around, they can easily use the name of the Dalai Lama to try resolve the conflict in Karma Kagyu lineage. Unfortunately, the CTA is not doing that because everything they do is motivated by what benefits will they give.

What the CTA is capable of is creating conflict and tension in the Tibetan community, and they leave a mess behind. Solving a problem is too much of an effort and it brings more work to the CTA, they will not want to do that. They prefer to travel all around the world to enjoy free holidays and pretend to be a pitiful victim.

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away, there is no reason for the CTA to get involved in the 2 Karmapas issue again because they don't see any benefit in doing that. It is a messy problem, they will have to deal with so many people and it will be very stressful. Knowing the members of the CTA only want an easy life and be comfortable, they will continue to keep quiet and do nothing about the 2 Karmapas issue.

[PrajNa]

Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away, there is no reason for the CTA to get involved in the 2 Karmapas issue again because they don't see any benefit in doing that. It is a messy problem, they will have to deal with so many people and it will be very stressful. Knowing the members of the CTA only want an easy life and be comfortable, they will continue to keep quiet and do nothing about the 2 Karmapas issue.

This is very bad. They really don't care about their spiritual/religious leaders and the mess they have created with this 2 Karmapas issue. Now that one ran away, and the other one is not recognised by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, what would happen to the Kagyu school?

[Tracy]

This is very bad. They really don't care about their spiritual/religious leaders and the mess they have created with this 2 Karmapas issue. Now that one ran away, and the other one is not recognised by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, what would happen to the Kagyu school?

Actually, the future for the Kagyu lineage is brighter now than before. It came as a big surprise when the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley gave up the Indian IC and became the citizen of the Dominican Republic. It was even a bigger surprise when the 2 Karmapas met up.

What the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley did really upset the CTA but this is a very courageous act. It may look rebellious but it is a clear sign that people are fed up with the CTA. The Karmapa Ogyen Trinley cares about the Kagyu lineage more than being politically correct, that is why he ran away in order to do more Dharma work and he wanted to reconcile with the other Karmapa.

Now the Kagyu tradition is no longer associated with the CTA anymore, this is actually a piece of good news. The 2 Karmapas can work together to clear the doubts in Kagyu lineage and continue to spread their precious teachings. The CTA only destroys a lineage but never preserves it. They create doubts but never try to resolve them.