The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[Pema8]

Why so much confusion. Isn't one Karmapa enough?? The CTA should stop this confusion and let the Karmapa and the lineage of the Karma Kagyu continue as it has been their tradition. There is no need for a Fake Karmapa! Why creating all these problems?

[Harold Musetescu]

Why so much confusion. Isn't one Karmapa enough?? The CTA should stop this confusion and let the Karmapa and the lineage of the Karma Kagyu continue as it has been their tradition. There is no need for a Fake Karmapa! Why creating all these problems?

Which Karmapa is enough Pema8??

[Joo Won]

"Tibetan government in exile, you have created two Gelugs (Pro-Dorje Shugden and against), you have created two Panchen Rinpoches, two Karmapas, two Dromo Geshe Rinpoches, two Kundeling Rinpoches and so on. When are you going to solve all the confusion. You are destroying Tibetan Buddhism."

--->Tibetan leaders for decades keep saying DORJE SHUGDEN ppl divide Tibet, creates disharmony within Tibetans, now you see, who is actually the real bad guy? It's definitely TIBETAN LEADERS! Who is more evil and sneaky than Tibetan leaders, who stick their nose into Karma Kagyu's, Gelug's, and all the other Tibetan Buddhism lineages' affairs?

Tibetan leaders are the one who actually divide Tibetans, create disharmony. Their real motive behind is to divide and rule, to divide attention to their failure as a government but no care about her people, their welfare, their future. They just eat and eat money. Then when no money they move to oversea to study and retire, one good example is Dhardon Sharling!

Wake up Tibetans, and followers of all leneages, say NO and bye bye to CTA. No one needs a corrupted government like CTA.

[vajratruth]

The 17th Karmapa Orgyen Trinley publicly turned his back on the 14th Dalai and his CTA in 2018.

At the 2018 Kagyu Monlan he publicly condemned the 5th Dalai Lama and his murderous ways against the Karma Kagyu.

This was a direct shot against the Dalai Lama lineage and his governments.

The rest of this article is from a article I posted here on this matter.

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Harold Musetescu
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17th Karmapa publicly condemns murderous 5th Dalai Lama
« on: March 09, 2018, 04:33:05 PM »
Quote
The following is a quote from part of  the 17th Karmapa's speech at the 2018 Monlam.

He publicly states that the 5th Dalai Lama and his murderous Mongolian Army friends lead by Gushen Khan destroyed Karma Kagyu monasteries and lineages.

Quote
Likewise, if you think about the history of the Kagyu lineage, and in particular the Karma Kamtsang, there have been many losses. For example, when the Mongol Gushen invaded, their armies razed many Karma Kamtsang monasteries and many lineages of practices and explanations were lost.
Unquote

You can find all this at Tsem Rinpoche's website under the title "Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje Explosive Special Message" dated March 09, 2018.

Finally we now see that even the 17th Karmapa stated that the Dalai Lama's lineage has engaged in the destruction of Monasteries and the Lineages.

He puts the blame squarely at the feet of the 5th Dalai Lama.

The same 5th Dalai Lama who attempted to murder Dorje Shugden with Fire Pujas.

The same 5th Dalai Lama who's Government was behind the MURDER of Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen.

We know what with 5th Dalai Lama did to the Sakya, Karma Kagyu, Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen and Dorje Shugden.

We know what the 13th Dalai Lama did to Tengyeling Monastery, His Holiness Demo Tulku, His Eminence Nyari Tulku, Methar, Kache (Tsiu) Marpo's Protector Chapel and the Tengyeling Oracle and Lineage.

We know what the 14th Dalai Lama has done to Dorje Shugden and his followers.

We know what the 14th Dalai Lama has done by creating fake anti Dorje Tulkus like the fake Dome Geshe Rinpoche and Serkong Dorje Chang.

Now we have the voice of the 17th Karmapa tell all the world what he thinks.

Praise to the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley.
Unquote

Orgyen Trinley has now become a citizen of Dominica and has turned his back on the Dalai Lama and his CTA.

They in return are now courting Thaye Dorje to be their puppet with the carrot of recognizing him as the true Karmapa.

Their present to him for doing their bidding with be the keys to Rumtek Monastery.

Ogyen Trinley was right and the 5th Dalai Lama's government did aggressively usurp Karma Kagyu monasteries and assets. It wasn't even about religion or a believe that the Gelug system is 'superior'. It was simply a fake excuse to forcibly take over dominance and control the Karma Kagyu and other sects. The motivation was purely political.

Gaden Phodrang is the source and cause of much of skullduggery in Tibetan Buddhism and that has not changed today. A simple way to asses how much benefit/disbenefit Gaden Phodrang has brought to the Tibetan people is by honestly looking to see if the Tibetan people in exile and the state of Tibetan Buddhism in exile is better off or worse off than 60 years ago. The Dalai Lama and CTA cannot blame China for everything. They can blame China for scuttling negotiations for the return of the Tibetan people, but they cannot blame China for the mess that we see in the CTA and the Karma Kagyu and Gelug sects. They cannot blame China for the fact that the Tibetan refugees who are in the third generation are literally lost and with no future. Those who are making it are doing it without the CTA.

I think this issue of demanding Gaden Phodrang and CTA to ascertain which is the right Karmapa is important and a simple way to expose the Tibetan leadership's politics that underscores everything they do. However, the Tibetan answers, they will lose:
- if they say Ogyen Trinley is the correct Karmapa, how come he has abandoned the Tibetan cause. How come he has created such a mess between the Indian government and the Tibetan leadership. How come Thaye Dorje is visibly displaying signs that he has the merits to command a strong spiritual following and loyalty of a bit chunk of the Karma Kagyu?

- if they say Thaye Dorje is the correct Karmapa then come Gaden Phodrang did not recognise and enthrone him and instead, endorsed the wrong Karmapa?

- if they say both are correct, then how come the Dalai Lama did not recognise both and how come two incarnations of the same mind stream ie that of the omniscient 16thKarmapa would want to tear their own lineage apart?

- if they stay quiet, then how come the Dalai Lama is not taking steps to safe practitioners from the 'wrong' Karmapa and be led down a ruinous path?

Good questions for Dalai Lama and CTA.

[Alex]

It is very important for Lobsang Sangay and Tibetan Leadership to announce which Karmapa is the real one. I know Dalai Lama has appeared in pictures with Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the Karmapa. However, now that Ogyen Trinley Dorje has escaped to the US and refuse to work with the Tibetan leadership, do we still follow him? Is he still the real Karmapa?

On the other hand, Karmapa Thaye Dorje seems to be doing quite well and even give birth to a son which is rumoured to be Sharmapa. It seems like His Holiness the Dalai Lama tried to meet up with him during the Kagyu Monlam which mean Tibetan Leadership is trying to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje now?

This is very confusing to us followers. Can the Tibetan Leadership give us an answer to who is the real Karmapa like how they told us which Panchen Lama is the real one? We are very grateful for Tibetan leadership to clarify the confusion on Panchen Lama so that we will not follow the wrong lama.

Now that there are 2 Karmapa, it will be best if Tibetan Leadership can let us know so that we won’t follow the wrong one and end up going to the three lower realms for following a fake lama.

[michaela]

Now that there are 2 Karmapa, it will be best if Tibetan Leadership can let us know so that we won’t follow the wrong one and end up going to the three lower realms for following a fake lama.

Hi Alex

Dear Alex

There are actually three Karmapas. But the third one, Dawa Sangpo Dorje, was not recognized by the Dalai Lama or the Sharmapa. It was recognized by Jamgon Kongtrul Rinpoche, one of the regents of Karma Kagyu lineage. You can read about the three Karmapa in this article:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-tibetan-governments-meddling-created-three-karmapas/

[michaela]

Tibetan leaders are the one who actually divide Tibetans, create disharmony. Their real motive behind is to divide and rule, to divide attention to their failure as a government but no care about her people, their welfare, their future. They just eat and eat money. Then when no money they move to oversea to study and retire, one good example is Dhardon Sharling!

Dear Joo Won

Thank you for your comment. Honestly I don't think Dhardon Sharling left the CTA due to lack of fund. Within the last one year alone, the CTA has scored millions of dollars from the United States alone and this is excluding the fund they extracted from other countries. I think Ms. Sharling resigned because she does not want to be caught up in the middle of Lobsang Sangay and Penpa Tsering's conflict. If you are interested in the matter, you can read this article:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/lobsang-sangay-and-dhardon-sharlings-catastrophic-legacy/

[Rowntree]

This is HOT NEWS! How come the CTA still hasn't announced which Karmapa people should denounce and which one to follow? They did that with the Panchen Lama, Serkong Dorje Chang, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Kundeling Rinpoche and etc. They also created two Gelug, one that practices Dorje Shugden, the other that not. They just love to split the lineage and the reincarnations all for political purposes.

There has never been a tradition where the Karmapa is recognised by the Dalai Lama throughout the Tibetan Buddhist history. The Karmapa has been recognised by the Sharmapa as far as the lineage is concerned and vice versa. Since the CTA rubbed it in, they should now tell the Karma Kagyu which one is the real Karmapa so they can denounce the fake one. This is very important because following a fake lama means they follow fake lineage and have fake teachings. This will mean the followers will end up in hell.

People are very confused and this has to be solved already. The Karmapa shouldn't keep quiet.

[Harold Musetescu]

This is HOT NEWS! How come the CTA still hasn't announced which Karmapa people should denounce and which one to follow? They did that with the Panchen Lama, Serkong Dorje Chang, Domo Geshe Rinpoche, Kundeling Rinpoche and etc. They also created two Gelug, one that practices Dorje Shugden, the other that not. They just love to split the lineage and the reincarnations all for political purposes.

The 14th Dalai Lama and HIS CTA have publicly recognized and enthroned their pick for the 17th Dalai Lama.

In their eyes all the rest are fake.

[dsnowlion]

Sharmapa Rinpoche is the highest authority in the Karma Kagyu after Karmapa. By age old tradition, Sharmapa is the one that confirms the real incarnation of Karmapa. He recognized Thaye Dorje as the genuine Karmapa. But Dalai Lama endorsed Orgyen Trinley as the real Karmapa. Dalai Lama is a great lama but there has never been a tradition of him recognizing a Karmapa.

So why did the Dalai Lama do such a thing? He should have minded his own business and not get involved in the first place? Did he do it because that Tai Situ gave a huge donation? Then that means the Dalai Lama is worst than a Chinese spy!

Both 'Karmapas' have big followings in and out of Tibet. So which one should we follow? We have to follow the genuine Karmapa. If we follow the fake one, we will get fake teachings, fake lineage and no results. We can even take rebirth in the lower realms.

And guess what? Both Karmapas do not want to associate themselves with the Dalai Lama or the CTA! Even the Karmapa that His Holiness endorsed does not want to return to India and be under the CTA's control, which goes to prove what we have been saying about the corrupt, abusive CTA is so true!

Only the Tibetan leaders can tell us which is the real Karmapa. You have told us which one is the real Panchen Lama. We follow the Panchen of your choosing. Since then we have condemned China and condemned the fake Panchen Lama. Now it is the same situation with Karmapa. We have denounce the fake Karmapa and ask him to step down. He is destroying the Karma Kagyu Lineage.

So why wouldn't they just do that? Since they can twist history around, ban incarnations, and murder high lamas. Heck, they even banned the Sharmapa from returning and the Karmapa had to secretly recognised him for 3 lifetimes and the funny thing is when he is allowed back, he went straight back into giving the Dalai Lama more headaches hahahaha.

This issue has torn the Karma Kagyu sect in half. There are many who are so confused and some gave up Tibetan Buddhism altogether because of this. We must solve the confusion. This does not look good for the Tibetan government in exile because the confusion was started by Tibetan government. I support Dalai Lama and Tibetan government. But so many of us need to know the real Karmapa already. Don't remain silent. Which one is the real Karmapa.

So why wouldn't they just do that? Since they can twist history around, ban incarnations, and murder high lamas. Heck, they even banned the Sharmapa from returning and the Karmapa had to secretly recognised him for 3 lifetimes and the funny thing is when he is allowed back, he went straight back into giving the Dalai Lama more headaches hahahaha.

Looks like Tibetan government in exile's legacy will be destroying Tibetan Buddhism.

[Jushri]

Sad to say the truth loud out - The Dharamsala office (Dalai Lama's office) is just using these high lamas to gain money, fame and support. Like for example, one of the two Karmapas must be the fake one. IF the fake one is going to be Ugyen Thrinley, obviously he was Dharamsala's puppet and I am glad he is out from India and Dharamsala office's control now.

Dharamsala office couldn't care less about what is happening with the Karma Kagyu's lineage. I guess they are now scratching head thinking how to deal with the incarnation of Sharmapa. Maybe the Dharamsala office is going to recognise their own Sharmapa?

Oh dear, please, not again! 3 Karmapas, 2 Sharmapas, 2 Panchens, 2 Dromo Geshes, 2 Kundelings...

Dharamsala office is annoying

CTA has failed to regain their country and they need to cover their failure. Dorje Shugden is one of the ways CTA uses to shift the blame. By staying silent on the Karmapa issue, CTA is hoping to divide the Karma Kagyus so that they can also blame the Kagyus for disunity, resulting in Tibetan Cause being a lost cause.

When will CTA ever become a REAL government for their people? Looks like NEVER, seeing how they are still stuck in India for the last 60 years and nothing has changed. Instead of uniting Tibetans, CTA has effectively split the Tibetans to so many fractions with the Shugden ban, the 2 Panchen Lamas and now the 2 Karmapas.

CTA is doing a great job at destroying the Tibet Cause and Tibetan Buddhism. No government in the world has managed to achieve what CTA has - To destroy their own country and their official religion.

[Harold Musetescu]

The CTA is NOT the problem and they NEVER have been the problem.

The Dalai Lama IS,WAS AND CONTINUES to be the problem.

The CTA are his puppets and they do and say what their "Puppet Master" tells them to say an do.

Our true enemy is the Dalai Lama and not his puppets.

[mountains]

Very significant

A hair cutting ceremony can be done when someone is going to be a monk. Or when a person is being recognized as a tulku. Besides that, it's rare there are hair cutting ceremonies for others reasons except for certain pujas.

Also the master who does the hair cutting should be someone of 'high standing', greatly respected and if possible a high lama with blessings. Many attendants of young tulkus will seek hair cutting ceremony with the highest or very respected lamas of their lineage. Many like to get this done by HH the Dalai Lama these days. So it is very unusual that Karmapa Thaye Dorje has his son's hair cutting done by Luding Khenchen Rinpoche who is Sakya and not even Karma Kagyu which Karmapa Thaye Dorje belongs to. This signifies a few things:

1. Definitely Karmapa Thaye Dorje's son is not becoming a monk at such a tender age. So the hair cutting signifies it is a incarnate lama or tulku.

2. To have his son's hair cut should be done by Dalai Lama but instead they have this done by Luding Khenchen Rinpoche shows an outright avoidance of Dalai Lama.

3. Also Karmapa Thaye Dorje is telling Dalai Lama and CTA (Tibetan govt in exile) that they don't need them. Karmapa Thaye Dorje does not need Dalai Lama or CTA to make it. They will be fine on their own. It is a very strong message to everyone.


Remember, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has never taken one single photo with the Dalai Lama. Why is that? Because Karmapa Thaye Dorje and followers reject the Dalai Lama.

[SabS]

CTA is really, really doing so much harm to their people and destroying the sacred Tibetan Buddhist lineages with so many doubts in the Masters and their teachings. How are they allowed to still be in existence? Pure lineages took centuries to establish in their true and trusted methods and yet, in just a few years, CTA managed to create so much distrust and damage the credibilities of true lineage Masters. CTA is nothing but the HERETICS of Tibetan Buddhism. Those who value their legacies of pure teachings and practices should join forces to oust the devils of Tibetan Buddhism.....

Give us back our faith and trust. Tell us who is real or fake. Double Karmapa, Panchen Lama, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, Serkong Rinpoche, etc. CTA, decide and let us know. We do not want to follow the wrong practice nor do we want to go to hell for the wrong practice. We are waiting for your announcement!!!

[michaela]

CTA has failed to regain their country and they need to cover their failure. Dorje Shugden is one of the ways CTA uses to shift the blame. By staying silent on the Karmapa issue, CTA is hoping to divide the Karma Kagyus so that they can also blame the Kagyus for disunity, resulting in Tibetan Cause being a lost cause.

When will CTA ever become a REAL government for their people? Looks like NEVER, seeing how they are still stuck in India for the last 60 years and nothing has changed. Instead of uniting Tibetans, CTA has effectively split the Tibetans to so many fractions with the Shugden ban, the 2 Panchen Lamas and now the 2 Karmapas.

CTA is doing a great job at destroying the Tibet Cause and Tibetan Buddhism. No government in the world has managed to achieve what CTA has - To destroy their own country and their official religion.

We know that these days the so-called Tibet cause is no more than just lip service. Which Tibetans in exile really fight for the Tibet cause beside arranging a small protest here and there and encouraging the people inside Tibet to self-immolate. Remember that the self-immolation is performed by the people inside Tibet and not outside. They do so because the CTA praised the previous self-immolation victims for their patriotism. Then they paraded the face of the victims around the world to request donations. What a shame to be under such administration!

We know the CTA's dirty divide and conquer politics to ensure that nobody among the Tibetans is becoming too strong and become their potential rivals. The two Karmapas are the evidence. But what can they do now, The Karmapa Thaye Dorje does not care about the CTA and is outside the CTA's influence. The Karmapa Ogyen Thinley refused to be their tool and chose to live overseas. This is another sign that the CTA's power is eroding fast and soon enough nobody would listen to them. They are nothing without the Dalai Lama's name.