The Fake Karmapa is destroying the precious Karma Kagyu Lineage! Can't CTA help?

[Harold Musetescu]

I really don't get this thread.

The CTA has backed the Karmapa since the Dalai Lama named him many many years ago.

Do they need to say on June 1st every year say that they still back the Karmapa?

Do they need to say on June 1st every year that they still back the Sakya Trizin?

Do they need to say on June 1st every year that they still back the Dalai Lama?

Really people you need to ?

[pemachen]

Few days back, an estimated 7500 people packed the Tsuglagkhang, the Main Temple and Yard adjacent to His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s residence this morning to participate in offering prayers for his long-life. Karmapa is nowhere to be seen.  Why is it that they have not made any statement up till now? I guess they think they can hide and pretend nothing happened.


Representatives of the Tibetan religious traditions sitting in the front of the Main Tibetan Temple during the Long Life Offering Ceremony for His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, HP, India on May 17, 2019. Photo by Tenzin Choejor


Where is the Karmapa?
Which Karmapa is the real one?

[/quote]

It's quite obvious that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has ditched the CTA, and with a Dominica passport, he doesn't need the CTA anymore. Moreover, he spent so much time in USA previously with no trouble, and total freedom to move around and do what he wants. So now the CTA has lost their Karmapa they endorsed. The question is, do they STILL endorse this Karmapa who ran away, or are they now going to endorse the "fake" Karmapa to be the real one 

[Tenzin K]

When politics mix with spiritual it always put spiritual at risk. Dalai Lama never in the picture of the tradition of recognition in Karma Kagyu lineage and why would he interfere? Why create such a huge impact to separate the practitioners of Karma Kagyu? There is only one reason to see is the power game again that Dalai Lama wants to control. I'm not going against the Dalai Lama nor I would like to disrespect him, but why break the lineage tradition by creating the confusion for the people? To be practical, look at the result of having 2 Karmapas. Can anyone list down the benefit? Can Dalai Lama state the benefit?

Every word by Dalai Lama carries some weight which due to his fame, popularity and of course we can't deny how hard Dalai Lama work in preaching Buddhist value by touring around the world. But this doesn't mean he can just break the tradition of other's lineages. What Dalai Lama preaching to the world is going against his action towards what he's doing to his own Tibetans and this is very obvious.

Why is Dalai Lama doing all this? Who is going to be benefited? or look at who is suffering from Dalai Lama act. Why keep separating Tibetan where they should unite every single Tibetan for the real Tibetan cause which is to go back to their homeland. Why this cause being abandoned and focus on creating more suffering within Tibetan?

[Rowntree]

Wow! Now the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not invited to CTA's events, even the Dalai Lama's long life? The CTA must be making a stand that they have recognised the wrong Karmapa. Otherwise, they will make sure he attends this important event.

The Indian government must be working with the CTA to ban the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley from entering India also. All the rumours about banning this Karmapa is true now. This is just another example of how people are being pulled down for associating with the CTA.

At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.

Few days back, an estimated 7500 people packed the Tsuglagkhang, the Main Temple and Yard adjacent to His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s residence this morning to participate in offering prayers for his long-life. Karmapa is nowhere to be seen.  Why is it that they have not made any statement up till now? I guess they think they can hide and pretend nothing happened.


Representatives of the Tibetan religious traditions sitting in the front of the Main Tibetan Temple during the Long Life Offering Ceremony for His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, HP, India on May 17, 2019. Photo by Tenzin Choejor


Where is the Karmapa?
Which Karmapa is the real one?

It's quite obvious that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has ditched the CTA, and with a Dominica passport, he doesn't need the CTA anymore. Moreover, he spent so much time in USA previously with no trouble, and total freedom to move around and do what he wants. So now the CTA has lost their Karmapa they endorsed. The question is, do they STILL endorse this Karmapa who ran away, or are they now going to endorse the "fake" Karmapa to be the real one 
[/quote]

[Alex]

Wow! Now the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not invited to CTA's events, even the Dalai Lama's long life? The CTA must be making a stand that they have recognised the wrong Karmapa. Otherwise, they will make sure he attends this important event.

The Indian government must be working with the CTA to ban the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley from entering India also. All the rumours about banning this Karmapa is right now. This is just another example of how people are being pulled down for associating with the CTA.

At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.

A few days back, an estimated 7500 people packed the Tsuglagkhang, the Main Temple and Yard adjacent to His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s residence this morning to participate in offering prayers for his long-life. Karmapa is nowhere to be seen.  Why is it that they have not made any statement up till now? I guess they think they can hide and pretend nothing happened.


Representatives of the Tibetan religious traditions sitting in the front of the Main Tibetan Temple during the Long Life Offering Ceremony for His Holiness the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala, HP, India on May 17, 2019. Photo by Tenzin Choejor


Where is the Karmapa?
Which Karmapa is the real one?

It's quite obvious that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has ditched the CTA, and with a Dominica passport, he doesn't need the CTA anymore. Moreover, he spent so much time in USA previously with no trouble, and total freedom to move around and do what he wants. So now the CTA has lost their Karmapa they endorsed. The question is, do they STILL endorse this Karmapa who ran away, or are they now going to endorse the "fake" Karmapa to be the real one 

[/quote]

It is indeed suspicious for the Karmapa not to attend such an important event especially when he is associated so closely with His Holiness the Dalai Lama in the past. His Holiness, the Dalai Lama has recognised Karmapa Ogyen Trinley by appearing in the same picture with him. I guess their relationship must be not as good as before after Karmapa Ogyen Trinley decided to run off to the west and took on a passport from the Dominican Republic.

I guess this is also the reason why CTA still refuses to announce who is the real Karmapa even though they recognised Karmapa Ogyen Trinley long time ago. They were so quick to announce who is the real Panchen Lama, but they delayed so much for the Karmapa.

It was said that His Holiness the Dalai Lama appeared at the Karma Kagyu Monlam which was preceded by the other Karmapa. It is evident that CTA wanted to get close to the other Karmapa after their plans with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley failed miserably.

[PrajNa]

The Indian government must be working with the CTA to ban the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley from entering India also. All the rumours about banning this Karmapa is true now. This is just another example of how people are being pulled down for associating with the CTA.

At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.

Why don't they make an official announcement or at least tell the Tibetans in Dharamsala about this? They always post notices in Tibetan, so I wonder why this time around there's nothing at all? They can post notices of Dorje Shugden practitioners and hitlist just because these Dorje Shugden practitioners went for peaceful protest to request His Holiness to talk about the ban. Amazing double standard!

[Rowntree]

If the CTA wants to make things better, they would have done so when they chased the black Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to Dominica and get new citizenship there. The black Karmapa had enough and he didn't wish to be controlled by the CTA. All these years, he didn't get the education he needed for his role but merely a decorative item for the CTA during events and dharma sharing. The CTA has been using the black Karmapa for their sick agenda.

The Indian government must be working with the CTA to ban the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley from entering India also. All the rumours about banning this Karmapa is true now. This is just another example of how people are being pulled down for associating with the CTA.

At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.

Why don't they make an official announcement or at least tell the Tibetans in Dharamsala about this? They always post notices in Tibetan, so I wonder why this time around there's nothing at all? They can post notices of Dorje Shugden practitioners and hitlist just because these Dorje Shugden practitioners went for peaceful protest to request His Holiness to talk about the ban. Amazing double standard!

[Harold Musetescu]

quote author pemachen  on May 27, 2019

Quote
At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.
Unquote

Should you not replace "CTA" with "The 14th Dalai Lama".

It was the 14th Dalai Lama who FIRST recognized the Karmapa and NOT the CTA.

[Alex]

If the CTA wants to make things better, they would have done so when they chased the black Karmapa Ogyen Trinley to Dominica and get new citizenship there. The black Karmapa had enough and he didn't wish to be controlled by the CTA. All these years, he didn't get the education he needed for his role but merely a decorative item for the CTA during events and dharma sharing. The CTA has been using the black Karmapa for their sick agenda.

The Indian government must be working with the CTA to ban the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley from entering India also. All the rumours about banning this Karmapa is true now. This is just another example of how people are being pulled down for associating with the CTA.

At least it is clear to us now that the CTA is finally admitting that they have recognised a wrong Karmapa that was presented by Tai Situ. CTA always do the wrong thing. They have proven to have done so.

Why don't they make an official announcement or at least tell the Tibetans in Dharamsala about this? They always post notices in Tibetan, so I wonder why this time around there's nothing at all? They can post notices of Dorje Shugden practitioners and hitlist just because these Dorje Shugden practitioners went for peaceful protest to request His Holiness to talk about the ban. Amazing double standard!

That is why CTA is reluctant to announce the Karmapa that they recognized which is the black Karmapa to be the real Karmapa. The black Karmapa is still not fully under their control and recently he had made a rebellious move which is to take up a Dominican passport which grants him freedom away from CTA's clutches.

CTA wanted to have full control over the Karmapa that has power. Since their plan with the Black Karmapa failed miserably, they tried to get the other Karmapa on their side. CTA seems to have forgotten that they rejected the Karmapa and even refused to give ordination to him when he was first recognized.

CTA went to the Karma Kagyu that was preceded by the White Karmapa and tried their luck to connect with him. Fortunately, he was not there and their evil plans did not work out. Now without any candidate for Karmapa, they are desperate for a high lama that can succeed the Dalai Lama when he is no longer around.

[PrajNa]

CTA wanted to have full control over the Karmapa that has power. Since their plan with the Black Karmapa failed miserably, they tried to get the other Karmapa on their side. CTA seems to have forgotten that they rejected the Karmapa and even refused to give ordination to him when he was first recognized.

This is very true. It's all about politics. Many Tibetans are disappointed with the Central Tibetan Administration  because they treated the high lamas as puppets or political pawn. What an insult to the Karma Kagyu school. See, now that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not around, they don't bother to make the effort to invite him back, or apologise for how they have treated him so badly for so many years in Dharamsala. Since he is not 'useful' anymore, just throw him out

[Tracy]

If you think CTA is going to protect Tibetan Buddhism in general, you can forget about it. They are known to be very corrupted. They only care about themselves and they exploit their own people.

For example, the CTA imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden practice and started to produce a lot of materials to condemn Dorje Shugden and its followers. They put the blame of the failure to free Tibet on Dorje Shugden, who is not a person but a divine deity. The CTA is doing this to distract people from scrutinising them.  Besides, they are also using Dorje Shugden issue to create troubles in China.

The first thing comes to CTA's mind is whether they can gain anything from the thing they do. If there is no benefit, they will keep quiet and stay away. If there is benefit, they will not hesitate to take action. The Karmapa issue does not give CTA any benefit but more work. Therefore, they will remain silent and not do anything.

[Alex]

If you think CTA is going to protect Tibetan Buddhism in general, you can forget about it. They are known to be very corrupted. They only care about themselves and they exploit their own people.

For example, the CTA imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden practice and started to produce a lot of materials to condemn Dorje Shugden and its followers. They put the blame of the failure to free Tibet on Dorje Shugden, who is not a person but a divine deity. The CTA is doing this to distract people from scrutinising them.  Besides, they are also using Dorje Shugden issue to create troubles in China.

The first thing comes to CTA's mind is whether they can gain anything from the thing they do. If there is no benefit, they will keep quiet and stay away. If there is benefit, they will not hesitate to take action. The Karmapa issue does not give CTA any benefit but more work. Therefore, they will remain silent and not do anything.

CTA is busy protecting their own behind and they didn't even protect their own people when the trend of self-immolation started. They just let their own people burnt themselves to death. They did not try to educate them or stop them from doing so. Apparently, the precious human being life is nothing in the eyes of CTA.

Just like the Karmapa issue, CTA is supposed to guide the Tibetans on choosing the right Karmapa to worship. They did that for Panchen Lama rather quickly but they keep on delaying the announcement of the true Karmapa.

I guess the delay is caused by Karmapa Ogyen Trinley when he decided to betray the CTA by taking on the Dominican passport. Before CTA have full confidence that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is standing on their side and be loyal to them, they will not announce he is the right Karmapa. I guess this will go on for quite some time until they found someone that is reliable for them.

[PrajNa]

If you think CTA is going to protect Tibetan Buddhism in general, you can forget about it. They are known to be very corrupted. They only care about themselves and they exploit their own people.

For example, the CTA imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden practice and started to produce a lot of materials to condemn Dorje Shugden and its followers. They put the blame of the failure to free Tibet on Dorje Shugden, who is not a person but a divine deity. The CTA is doing this to distract people from scrutinising them.  Besides, they are also using Dorje Shugden issue to create troubles in China.

The first thing comes to CTA's mind is whether they can gain anything from the thing they do. If there is no benefit, they will keep quiet and stay away. If there is benefit, they will not hesitate to take action. The Karmapa issue does not give CTA any benefit but more work. Therefore, they will remain silent and not do anything.

The reality is that it's Dorje Shugden who helped Dalai Lama escaped Tibet. The Tibetan leadership has twisted the truth, and now the Central Tibetan Administration is the one destroying Tibetan Buddhism - creating the confusion with 2 Karmapas, 2 Panchen Lamas and many more duplicate Rinpoches thanks to their interference in recognising a candidate when they are not supposed to. But now, it seems that the Tibetan leadership has 'lost' its Karmapa, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama is saying that the Chinese Panchen Lama is also a manifestation.  Very weird and more confusing for the public.

For those who may not have read this, this the truth of how the Dalai Lama escaped Tibet: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/controversy/articles-controversy/the-truth-behind-who-saved-the-dalai-lamas-life/

[Alex]

If you think CTA is going to protect Tibetan Buddhism in general, you can forget about it. They are known to be very corrupted. They only care about themselves and they exploit their own people.

For example, the CTA imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden practice and started to produce a lot of materials to condemn Dorje Shugden and its followers. They put the blame of the failure to free Tibet on Dorje Shugden, who is not a person but a divine deity. The CTA is doing this to distract people from scrutinising them.  Besides, they are also using Dorje Shugden issue to create troubles in China.

The first thing comes to CTA's mind is whether they can gain anything from the thing they do. If there is no benefit, they will keep quiet and stay away. If there is benefit, they will not hesitate to take action. The Karmapa issue does not give CTA any benefit but more work. Therefore, they will remain silent and not do anything.

The reality is that it's Dorje Shugden who helped Dalai Lama escaped Tibet. The Tibetan leadership has twisted the truth, and now the Central Tibetan Administration is the one destroying Tibetan Buddhism - creating the confusion with 2 Karmapas, 2 Panchen Lamas and many more duplicate Rinpoches thanks to their interference in recognising a candidate when they are not supposed to. But now, it seems that the Tibetan leadership has 'lost' its Karmapa, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama is saying that the Chinese Panchen Lama is also a manifestation.  Very weird and more confusing for the public.

For those who may not have read this, this the truth of how the Dalai Lama escaped Tibet: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/controversy/articles-controversy/the-truth-behind-who-saved-the-dalai-lamas-life/

Everything CTA did contributes to the downfall of Buddhism because of their selfish mind that only think about themselves. There is nothing they do that can be of benefit to ANYONE. That is how selfish they are. Look at the mess that they created in Tibetan Buddhism scene. 2 Panchen lamas and 2 Karmapas because of them being nosy with the religious affairs which they are not supposed to be sticking their hands into.

Tibetans settlements are going downhill and it never once improved since 60 years ago. The only thing that is improving is the wallet of Tibetan leadership which is full of donations from the western countries that was meant for the Tibetans in exile. I don't see CTA ever did anything to upgrade the Tibetan settlements. Millions and millions of donations vanished and Tibetans in exile never got to see them.

Why Tibetans are willing to stay in the Tibetan settlements? There is nothing for them there and never will be. Only poverty and death is waiting for them. They should wake up and see the true hideous faces of CTA and stop following them blindly.

[PrajNa]

Everything CTA did contributes to the downfall of Buddhism because of their selfish mind that only think about themselves. There is nothing they do that can be of benefit to ANYONE. That is how selfish they are. Look at the mess that they created in Tibetan Buddhism scene. 2 Panchen lamas and 2 Karmapas because of them being nosy with the religious affairs which they are not supposed to be sticking their hands into.

Tibetans settlements are going downhill and it never once improved since 60 years ago. The only thing that is improving is the wallet of Tibetan leadership which is full of donations from the western countries that was meant for the Tibetans in exile. I don't see CTA ever did anything to upgrade the Tibetan settlements. Millions and millions of donations vanished and Tibetans in exile never got to see them.

Why Tibetans are willing to stay in the Tibetan settlements? There is nothing for them there and never will be. Only poverty and death is waiting for them. They should wake up and see the true hideous faces of CTA and stop following them blindly.

The CTA not only did not take care of Tibetan refugees' welfare, but they are also destroying Tibetan Buddhism from within by interfering with the recognition of Karmapa. It's not necessary at all an disrupting tradition. Now that both Karmapas have met, what is the Central Tibetan Administration's stand? Which Karmapa is real? Which Karmapa is fake? If Ogyen Trinley is the real Karmapa, why did he leave the Tibetans and now the Kagyu tradition has no head of school in important ceremonies and also in terms of leadership in the Tibetan community?