Carolle McQuirre regrets opening We Need To Talk About Shugden on FB

[thaimonk]

I found this on the comment section from Carole McQuirre:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/are-the-duke-and-duchess-of-sussex-anti-dalai-lama-chinese-spies/comment-page-1/#comment-926528


I’ve been operating an online hate group on FB against the NKT. I use to be a part of that organization. I loved my guru Geshe Kelsang, but I didn’t like some of the underlings who ran the organization. I was there for over a decade and it was time for me to be given a position of a teacher and have the respect I felt I deserved. I didn’t get what I wanted and I felt angry and slighted. It reminded me of my abandonment issues I’ve had throughout my life. I’ve never belonged anywhere and people usually left me and I just couldn’t stand it. I got my personal emotional issues mixed up with my spiritual direction. I projected my personal issues onto my teacher and the organization and I have done that so many times in my life ruining good situations.

I left NKT and told whoever would listen to me who I was abused in NKT. I started a FB page to encourage other ‘victims’ to speak out against NKT. Being the vast organization that NKT is, it was not difficult to find other people who had left for one reason or another and had things to say against NKT. Our little group even got close to some of the events coordinators of the Dalai Lama and we were given a chance to take pictures with Dalai Lama which we promptly did. The photo with the Dalai Lama we thought gave us some validation towards our stance against NKT-but it backfired. It gave us a high to have a photo with the Dalai Lama but after a while we realized we can never be close to the Dalai Lama. We can never get the care and amount of teachings we use to get from Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. Being close to the Dalai Lama is like celebrity worship not so much as having a personal guru who is there for us.

I regret opening my FB page as it vented out my rage and it was the platform for many other people who had blame and anger issues to collect vast amounts of negative karma. We were never able to have any cases or legal suits against NKT with all of our bantering because there was nothing substantial or genuine in the so called abuses we claimed we received while in NKT. NKT continues to grow while the rest of us who left are nowhere in life. Nowhere in our spiritual practice and just living empty lives. For me I’ve gotten tired of the page I’ve started and FB and it’s a horrendous effort to go there to post things or read any comments. Barely anyone visits the page anyways these days. How much can people vent out their anger at someone or something which is not to blame in the first place?

I don’t have the courage to apologize to my teacher or rejoin NKT because I am a coward. I’ve always been a coward looking for the easy way out. But I am thinking about it. I realize my mistakes. I realized my mistakes which comes from me.

[Drolma]

I have read about Carol before, she used to be a nun in the NKT but later left because she did not get the attention that she wanted in the NKT. I also heard she suffers from mental illness. Perhaps her mental illness has made her so delusional to criticise her own teacher and her center.

She was very evil to set up a hate group and gather people who are full of anger like her to spread rumours about Geshela and the NKT.  She didn't realise she is creating a lot of bad karma for herself. By disparaging a Buddha, one will take rebirth in hell. Hell is not a very pleasant place to be, if we think we suffer a lot now, it will be worse in hell.

I really hope Carol can just admit her mistake and apologise to Geshela and the NKT. Dharma practice is the only solution to her problem, to liberate her from her sufferings. She should treasure her precious human life, be regretful and practice Dharma diligently. A real teacher like Geshela will accept her again if she is sincere and truly regretful.

[SabS]

I have read about Carol before, she used to be a nun in the NKT but later left because she did not get the attention that she wanted in the NKT. I also heard she suffers from mental illness. Perhaps her mental illness has made her so delusional to criticise her own teacher and her center.

She was very evil to set up a hate group and gather people who are full of anger like her to spread rumours about Geshela and the NKT.  She didn't realise she is creating a lot of bad karma for herself. By disparaging a Buddha, one will take rebirth in hell. Hell is not a very pleasant place to be, if we think we suffer a lot now, it will be worse in hell.

I really hope Carol can just admit her mistake and apologise to Geshela and the NKT. Dharma practice is the only solution to her problem, to liberate her from her sufferings. She should treasure her precious human life, be regretful and practice Dharma diligently. A real teacher like Geshela will accept her again if she is sincere and truly regretful.

Such a sad existence, time wasted on her anger, on her venting, on creating so much bad karma instead of merits. Having problems in life, she went to NKT seeking for help to bring some peace and she had the merits to take on nun vows. Yet, she couldn't give up her attachments nor her pride which resulted her wishing for more. That is just simply plain pride that feeling of entitlement should arise and then anger when not met. This is not the practice of humbleness that will bring peace or gratefulness. Look at her now and you will now she is suffering the karma that she had created. Disparaging her own Guru who had been kind to give her the Dharma. Really sad. Even if she was unhappy, she need not have spoken out so badly in order to turn people away from Dharma which could have brought them relief from their problems. How much negative karma is that? I really do hope that she is sincere in realising her mistake and goes back to her Guru to ask for forgiveness which will relieve so much off her mind. I am sure that her Guru is kind and compassionate to forgive her. May Geshe Kelsang Gyatso will live long in good health for very long time.

[thaimonk]

I have read about Carol before, she used to be a nun in the NKT but later left because she did not get the attention that she wanted in the NKT. I also heard she suffers from mental illness. Perhaps her mental illness has made her so delusional to criticise her own teacher and her center.

She was very evil to set up a hate group and gather people who are full of anger like her to spread rumours about Geshela and the NKT.  She didn't realise she is creating a lot of bad karma for herself. By disparaging a Buddha, one will take rebirth in hell. Hell is not a very pleasant place to be, if we think we suffer a lot now, it will be worse in hell.

I really hope Carol can just admit her mistake and apologise to Geshela and the NKT. Dharma practice is the only solution to her problem, to liberate her from her sufferings. She should treasure her precious human life, be regretful and practice Dharma diligently. A real teacher like Geshela will accept her again if she is sincere and truly regretful.

Yeah, that's right. She has mental illness and progressively as she is old now (at least she looks real old), it has gotten much worse. I heard that before from someone who left her We Need To Talk About Shugden group. This person got tired of the baseless bantering on this page. Poor old Carole, she is mentally incompetent and it's getting worse. Om Mani Peme Hung

[dsnowlion]

I have read about Carol before, she used to be a nun in the NKT but later left because she did not get the attention that she wanted in the NKT. I also heard she suffers from mental illness. Perhaps her mental illness has made her so delusional to criticise her own teacher and her center.

She was very evil to set up a hate group and gather people who are full of anger like her to spread rumours about Geshela and the NKT.  She didn't realise she is creating a lot of bad karma for herself. By disparaging a Buddha, one will take rebirth in hell. Hell is not a very pleasant place to be, if we think we suffer a lot now, it will be worse in hell.

I really hope Carol can just admit her mistake and apologise to Geshela and the NKT. Dharma practice is the only solution to her problem, to liberate her from her sufferings. She should treasure her precious human life, be regretful and practice Dharma diligently. A real teacher like Geshela will accept her again if she is sincere and truly regretful.

Carolle McQuirre - OMG... you know what... if you did not make it as a nun and there are sooooooo many nuns who made it in NKT and is happy and stayed... you need to ask yourself what was wrong with you and seriously if I was her, I would just SHUT UP.

Why go set up a 'hate' group on Facebook and keep gossiping and bantering about your ex-teacher. This goes to show that this person does not know Dharma or refuse to accept karma, hence refuse and rejects Dharma. Look unless she has been sexually abused or physically harmed... which she has not because if she has, she would obviously spread it all over the internet, then really what is her problem? She cannot follow NKT's training/system, that is not NKT's fault, others are following and is doing fine so that is how I measure.

I do not believe a single word she says and all she offers is more schism and more gossip and more negative karma and she encourages people to do it is what is sickening. It is very very scary how she will end up dying, not with a happy mind with so much hatred and bitterness. Very scary to know where she will end up seriously. I wish she would really meditate, internalise the Buddha's teachings, and join some other meditation Buddhist centre that suits her and shut down the horrible facebook she has which is accumulating so much negative karma for herself and her group of friends. It is very very sad to see this.

[Tracy]

Carolle McQuirre - OMG... you know what... if you did not make it as a nun and there are sooooooo many nuns who made it in NKT and is happy and stayed... you need to ask yourself what was wrong with you and seriously if I was her, I would just SHUT UP.

Why go set up a 'hate' group on Facebook and keep gossiping and bantering about your ex-teacher. This goes to show that this person does not know Dharma or refuse to accept karma, hence refuse and rejects Dharma. Look unless she has been sexually abused or physically harmed... which she has not because if she has, she would obviously spread it all over the internet, then really what is her problem? She cannot follow NKT's training/system, that is not NKT's fault, others are following and is doing fine so that is how I measure.

I do not believe a single word she says and all she offers is more schism and more gossip and more negative karma and she encourages people to do it is what is sickening. It is very very scary how she will end up dying, not with a happy mind with so much hatred and bitterness. Very scary to know where she will end up seriously. I wish she would really meditate, internalise the Buddha's teachings, and join some other meditation Buddhist centre that suits her and shut down the horrible facebook she has which is accumulating so much negative karma for herself and her group of friends. It is very very sad to see this.

A survival group should be a support group that gives hope and positive energy to the people to overcome what makes them suffer. But Carol's group is a group of people who are angry and just want to vent their anger. I believe whenever they meet up, they just talk about negative things and make each other more unhappy and depressed.

Anyone with sense will eventually leave her group. Her opinions on Geshela and the NKT are all baseless. People might believe her in the beginning, but they will eventually lose their trust in her as there is no evidence to support what she says. Besides, people can also see that there are more people who stay in the NKT than those who leave.

Carolle's survival group will not last long as at the end of the day, there is no benefit for people who join them. Instead of feeling more positive, their anger grows and they become more miserable. Carol should really dissolve her group because what she is doing is harming a lot of people.

[Alex]

It is amazing how this ex-nun behave. No wonder she disrobed and left her Guru to set up a little survival group for her to feel good about herself for what she had done. She is probably feeling guilty about it and that is why she needs a bunch of people that will support her decision to cover up her guilt inside.

Those people who chimed in are just as pathetic as her. They also left their guru and that is why they are bunched up together and talking about how great their life had turned out to be when they left their guru. Little did they know that the negative karma that they are accumulating is staggering. The negative karma of one abandoning one's guru is already heavy and here they are still talking bad about the Guru. That is like double the negative karma.

Now that she is regretting her actions, I guess maybe the negative karma caught up with her? I hope she really regrets her actions and go back to her Guru to apologies. Hopefully, she will be able to purify some karma from the broken samaya before she pass away.

[Drolma]

Carolle is living in denial, she does not want to take responsibility for what she is experiencing and she tries to look for someone to take the blame. Obviously, she does not believe in karma. In a way, it is good that she disrobed and left the NKT, otherwise she would give wrong teachings to people and affect their spiritual practice.

Setting up a hate group to criticise Geshela and the NKT is Carolle's way to make herself feel better because she does not have to look into herself to contemplate what makes her left her teacher and her center. She doesn't want to admit it was her wrong view and bad behaviour that caused her to leave therefore she needs to gather people to support her. Those who join her are just as angry as she is, none of them have achieved much in their lives. It is the bitterness and jealousy that make them become harmful.

If Carolle and the group continue to feed each other with negative emotions, energy and thoughts, things will not change for better for them. They will become worse. With so much anger, bitterness and other negative emotions, they will be reborn in a place that is not very nice. If Carolle really wants her life to be better, she has to change her action. She better seeks forgiveness from Geshela sincerely and really practices Dharma. Perhaps a silent retreat will be a good start. 

[christine V]

I saw this comment on too. Seem that she is regretting on what she have done. But, could all this harm she did can be undone?
I guess by leaving message of regret, she is truly regret. Also I see she have realise how much love her Guru have gave him and lastly, I truly believe Dorje Shugden do not leave her even she betrayed her guru and Dorje Shugden. 

[Alex]

Carolle is living in denial, she does not want to take responsibility for what she is experiencing and she tries to look for someone to take the blame. Obviously, she does not believe in karma. In a way, it is good that she disrobed and left the NKT, otherwise she would give wrong teachings to people and affect their spiritual practice.

Setting up a hate group to criticise Geshela and the NKT is Carolle's way to make herself feel better because she does not have to look into herself to contemplate what makes her left her teacher and her center. She doesn't want to admit it was her wrong view and bad behaviour that caused her to leave therefore she needs to gather people to support her. Those who join her are just as angry as she is, none of them have achieved much in their lives. It is the bitterness and jealousy that make them become harmful.

If Carolle and the group continue to feed each other with negative emotions, energy and thoughts, things will not change for better for them. They will become worse. With so much anger, bitterness and other negative emotions, they will be reborn in a place that is not very nice. If Carolle really wants her life to be better, she has to change her action. She better seeks forgiveness from Geshela sincerely and really practices Dharma. Perhaps a silent retreat will be a good start.

Yes, Carolle is certainly living in denial. She does not want to accept the truth about her and that is why she left NKT. She left her guru who is certainly one of the kindest people in her life. After she had left him, I am sure that she has tons of guilt because she will not lower her pride and apologize. Instead of keeping quiet and not attracting any attention, she went overboard and start to criticise her Guru.

When that is not enough to cover up her guilt, she invites those who also left their guru to chime in her guru bashing group. When there are so many people talking about the same thing, it made her feel like she is correct and she made the right choice of leaving. Whatever she is doing is just to make herself feel better for abandoning her guru.

The whole group is practically full of hatred, anger, bitterness, jealousy, and envy. This will not benefit anyone of them while they are collecting heavy negative karma. They will go spiraling down into more negative emotions and finally pass away full of negative emotions. This will not be beneficial for them during their Bardo.

[Tracy]

I saw this comment on too. Seem that she is regretting on what she have done. But, could all this harm she did can be undone?
I guess by leaving message of regret, she is truly regret. Also I see she have realise how much love her Guru have gave him and lastly, I truly believe Dorje Shugden do not leave her even she betrayed her guru and Dorje Shugden.

To be honest, I am not too sure if Carolle is really regretful to her guru. If she is, she has to first go back to the NKT and seek for forgiveness. Do the opposite of what she was doing, start a survival group called 'I was wrong to accuse my teacher' and start the purification practice together with other people who are in the survival group.

Only when she is truly regretful and very determined not to do the same action again, can she purify her karma. If her life is miserable now, she will be more miserable if she continues to do what she is doing. We have to change our action in order to change the result.

For Carolle to have met Geshela such a great at master, she must have done something right in her past lives. Unfortunately, because of the ripening of our negative karma, we don't see the truth and we continue to be self-cherishing and harm other people. Geshela and Dorje Shugden will still help Carolle but it really depends on Carolle if she wants to help herself.

[dsnowlion]

Carolle has already collected so much negative karma from breaking her samaya with her Guru but the worst part is she keeps doing it and disparage her Guru, on top of that invite more people to do so too! She is definitely going to be reborn in hell as it says in the Firty Stanza's of Guru Devotion. She better read up the stanzas well and prologinh

Giving up despising and disparaging

(a) Abandoning belittling the guru is discussed in two divisions: general (Verse 10) and specific (Verses 11 and 12).

General teaching

(10)

Having become the disciple of such a protecting (guru), should you then despise him from your heart, you will reap continual suffering as if you had disparaged all the buddhas.

If, having become a vajra disciple, you intentionally belittle your vajra guru—the guru who has given you initiations, taught you tantric practices and conferred tantric vows upon you—you will have to undergo immense and constant suffering. Why? Because belittling your guru is the same as belittling all the buddhas. In the same way that making offerings to just one pore of your guru creates the inconceivable amount of merit of making offerings to the three time buddhas, so too does any negativity created with your guru become extremely heavy.

How do we belittle our guru? When we say things like “He doesn’t have good morality,” “He has no enthusiastic perseverance,” “He’s stingy,” or “He’s so short-tempered,” we’re creating that kind of negative karma —belittling means deriding, disparaging and so forth.

Geshe Potowa said, “In degenerate times disciples will belittle their guru in an honorific way,” that is, they’ll do it politely. This might seem not so bad, but it’s still belittling.

When Atisha came to Tibet he told the Tibetans, “All the major and minor realizations are developed by relying on the guru but since you Tibetans regard your guru as simply an ordinary man, there’s no way you can develop any realizations.” Geshe Potowa also said that we should carefully examine a potential guru before establishing a guru-disciple relationship, but once we have taken him as our guru, we should cultivate proper guru devotion. Even though he might pretend to be poorly educated, we still shouldn’t belittle him but instead cultivate pure guru devotion. Since the law of cause and effect is inevitable, if we behave in this way, in future we will meet with gurus such as Manjushri or Maitreya Buddha. The benefits are infinite.

Vajrapani once asked Guru Shakyamuni Buddha, “What are the negative consequences of belittling the guru?” Taken aback, Guru Shakyamuni replied, “Oh, Vajrapani, please don’t ask me that! If I were to enumerate those consequences, humans, gods and even dauntless bodhisattvas would be terrified and die of shock. However, if you steel yourself by developing great courage before listening, although the negative consequences of belittling the guru are limitless, I’ll summarize a few for you.” The consequences of belittling the guru are so unbearable that spelling them out would terrify even Vajrapani.

 

(11)

If you are foolish enough to despise your guru, you will contract contagious diseases and those caused by harmful spirits and will die (a horrible death) caused by demons, plagues or poison.

The invisible consequence is rebirth in hell. Here, the visible consequences are enumerated. If you belittle your guru you will suffer from infectious diseases and die from harm inflicted by other sentient beings, such as snake bite or tiger attack. Other ways you can die as a result of despising your guru are demonic interference, incurable disease and poison. As has been said, “The greatly deluded and extremely ignorant belittlers of their guru will die from such diseases.” As this implies, even those who have a little knowledge will not belittle their guru; only the extremely ignorant will do so.


(12)

You will be killed by (wicked) kings or fire, by poisonous snakes, water, witches or bandits, by harmful spirits or savages, and then be reborn in a hell.

As a consequence of belittling your guru you can also be executed by the king or die from snake bite, drowning or attack.ttack . Having been deprived of life by such interferences, you will be born in the great hell. The source of these consequences is the Great Hevajra Tantra.

[SabS]

Such a sad existence, to lose one's faculties due to one's bitterness, anger and selfish pride. Carolle had the merits to be a nun but instead of being an inspiration for others, she became the bane that drags others down with her selfish need for attention and pride that prevents her acknowledging her mistakes. Her pride now propels her deeper and deeper into Hell (imagine being senile and be locked in one's own mental deterioration?). Hmmm, come to think of it, she does serve as an inspiration to others.....what you wish you will never become!!! Someone who will forever be alone, locked in her mind of thinking others as enemies but she is her own greatest enemy. If she really regrets her actions and thoughts, then she should really take the steps to amend with her Guru, before it is too late. If her senility takes over, then she will forever be locked in her wrongdoings and never be able to apologize. Scary!

[Drolma]

Such a sad existence, to lose one's faculties due to one's bitterness, anger and selfish pride. Carolle had the merits to be a nun but instead of being an inspiration for others, she became the bane that drags others down with her selfish need for attention and pride that prevents her acknowledging her mistakes. Her pride now propels her deeper and deeper into Hell (imagine being senile and be locked in one's own mental deterioration?). Hmmm, come to think of it, she does serve as an inspiration to others.....what you wish you will never become!!! Someone who will forever be alone, locked in her mind of thinking others as enemies but she is her own greatest enemy. If she really regrets her actions and thoughts, then she should really take the steps to amend with her Guru, before it is too late. If her senility takes over, then she will forever be locked in her wrongdoings and never be able to apologize. Scary!

Karma is no joke when we have done negative actions, karma will come back to us and we will suffer from our wrongdoings. If by being devoted to our guru, we can be liberated from sufferings which is the best thing we can get in life then when we disparage our guru, we can also go the the worst place. Even though Carolle was ordained as a nun before but I think she does not believe in karma. Otherwise, she won't have set up her small group to continue to disparage Geshela.

This is what a spiritual teacher has to go through. Highly qualified teachers are very selfless, their job is to spread Dharma to benefit people and to guide the students to real happiness. It depends on the state of mind of the students, the teacher will use different methods. The methods used may not be the method we like but it is definitely the best method to help us progress in our spiritual journey.

Carolle wanted things her way, that was why she was angry and unhappy when she was in the NKT. She didn't really study the 50 stanzas of Guru devotion, maybe it is also due to her mental illness. The more she disparages Geshela, the more mind obscuration she creates for herself. She might become even more crazy as time passes by.

[Drolma]

I really hope Carolle will realise how much negative karma she has created for herself all these years for disparaging Geshela who had been so kind as to impart the precious Dharma to her. Geshela gave her the best gift one can ever have but she denied it. She let her big fat ego win. I cannot imagine how her future life would be when she takes rebirth in the 3 lower realms.

While she is still in a human form, she should treasure it and quickly do purification practice to purify her negative karma. In the process of purification, there will be lots of sufferings, emotional up and down but that is normal. It is a purification of negative karma, we cannot be expecting a comfortable experience, can we? But if her faith in Geshela remains strong, she will be able to get through it and things will become better.

We are ordinary beings, we are not able to see what is ahead or what was before. Our lama, on the other hand, is a Buddha who has the clairvoyance. He knows how to help us. We just have to surrender to him and follow through. Our lama does not want anything from us, he just wants us to be happy and he wants us to be free of suffering. Carolle has to realise her way did not bring her happiness but more suffering, she has to just surrender and be open to accepting Geshela's kindness.