Karmapa Thaye Dorje with his son Sharmapa Rinpoche ignores the Dalai Lama

[dsnowlion]

Karmapa Thaye Dorje is showing that he is not afraid of the Dalai Lama. He will do fine without the Dalai Lama's so-called support/friendship/acknowledgement. He is his own boss and he can stand on his own two feet. So basically he's saying to Dalai Lama, he does not need him and does not like him either. Daring and powerful! Inspiring! This is because the Dalai Lama has created so much rift and problems for the Karma Kagyu people that up until today, they have not united back.

It seems like all that the Dalai Lama does is create havoc, division, disunity amongst people. It is hard to comprehend why and what is the bigger picture in all this? Now the Sharmapa is back... looks like the Sharmapa is going to give the Dalai Lama a headache because of what the Dalai Lama did is unethical. By right he has no right to poke his nose on the Karma Kagyus business. He had no business doing that at all.   

[Alex]

It is good for them to ignore the Dalai Lama because anyone that actually comes in contact with Tibetan leadership will not end up in a good situation. There are many examples that can be seen such as Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. Just look at him with all his lawsuits in India and also the scandal in Taiwan. He will never be able to perform his duty as the Karmapa or live a peaceful life ever again. This is how the CTA controls and use their people. They do not care what is the consequences as long as they can achieve their goal.

Now that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not useful for them anymore, CTA tried to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje onto their side because they still need a high lama to command over the Tibetans after His Holiness the Dalai Lama has passed away. That is why they shamelessly showed up at Kagyu Monlam trying to catch a glimpse of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to force him onto their side with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Luckily, the Karmapa was not there and CTA's evil plan failed.

[Tracy]

When the Karmapa Thaye Dorje announced that he was going to disrobe and get married, it was shocking. Many people could not understand why this is happening. Now, the mystery is kind of solved. The Karmapa is actually providing a conducive environment for the Sharmapa Rinpoche to take rebirth. This is very interesting. What makes it more interesting is also the meeting of the 2 Karmapas. I wonder what will happen next. But I am sure all these events are the manifestation of a high being to benefit us.

[Rowntree]

It is true that people get prosperous, fame, power and growth when they take pictures with the Dalai Lama and donate to the CTA in the last 59 years or so. However, this has proven to be wrong with many corruptions and sex scandals to be exposed in recent years. People are starting to see how ineffective the CTA is and how good they are in selling the Dalai Lama's fame for selfish gain.

It is very clear to many that the CTA has not done what they are supposed to and they have not achieved anything for the Tibetan cause which is now inexistent. No one remembers why some of the Tibetans are living in exile. No one remembers what the Dalai Lama's function is. All they remember is the Dalai Lama got really famous around the world but the Tibetans in exile, especially in India, after 60 years are still sweater seller in the winter.

Anyone smart would really not want to have any associations with them. So it is definitely a right move for the Karmapa Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama with his son, Sharmapa Rinpoche. This is the only way to grow and not be dragged down to uneding political games and problems.

[michaela]

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.

[Drolma]

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.

The Dalai Lama and Karmapa Thaye Dorje are from different lineage, different monastery. Spiritually, the Dalai Lama is not any higher than the Karmapa. The Karmapa not seeing the Dalai Lama is not because he is arrogant but there is no need for him to do that.

Since Karmapa does not involve in politic, he also does not have to meet the Dalai Lama in the political sense. Every one seems to have this mis-conception that the Dalai Lama is almighty and all Buddhists have to respect and listen to everything that he says. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is more important to listen and follow the instruction of our teachers than the Dalai Lama.

If all Buddhist has to listen to the Dalai Lama and practice compassion, respect and tolerance, why are there still so many conflicts in the Buddhist community? Why is there still the Dorje Shugden ban?

[Harold Musetescu]

The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.

The CTA has announced who is the real Karmapa and it is not Thaye Dorje.

There is not confusion or controversy on the part of the CTA as to whom they consider the true Karmapa.

They back the 14th Dalai Lama's choice Ogyen Thinley and the CTA has backed him for decades.

I don't care who is the 17th Karmapa since I am a follower of Dorje Shugden.

So Michaela I hope this answers your question once and for all.

 

[Tenzin K]

It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.

Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.

[dsnowlion]

It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.

Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.

Tenzin K, of course, the recognition of the Karmapa and Sharmapa that is NOT chosen by the Dalai Lama has a lot to do with the Dalai Lama since he broke the rules and intercepted and intervened with the Karma Kagyu tradition, when he recognised the Black Karmapa - Ogyen Trinley Dorje (See here the trouble and schism and rivalries and disharmony created by the Dalai Lama due to him poking his nose where it did not belong http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/shamarpas-statement-reveals-dalai-lamas-role-in-karma-kagyu-conflict/  And this Ogyen Trinlet Dorje is not short of many scandals behind his name, see here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lamas-protege-karmapas-scandal-growing-big/ which make us wonder more... the Dalai Lama could make wrong decisions!

And now the Sharmapa can incarnate back as the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje, indicates who that Thaye Dorje is no doubt the right Karmapa, so again this goes to show the Dalai Lama was wrong? So if the Dalai Lama could make such grave mistakes in recognising incarnations... he could possibly make grave mistakes is having wrong views, making wrong decisions and creating so much disharmony for the Dorje Shugden practice and its people. So Tenzin K.... this Karmapa story does tell us a lot about the Dalai Lama and that perhaps he does make a mistake, on purpose?

[Drolma]

It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.

Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.

Spiritually, the Dalai Lama has no say in the matter in Karma Kagyu lineage. Every lineage has their own spiritual head. In Gelug lineage, the Dalai Lama is only one of the spiritual lineage, the highest authority is actually the Gaden Tripa, who is also known as the Lama Tsongkhapa on earth.

Therefore, it is very misleading to think the Dalai Lama is above all and everyone has to kow-tow to him. We have to respect him because he is a great Dharma teacher but that does not mean we have to follow his instructions.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje has done nothing wrong not to meet up with the Dalai Lama, he is not arrogant, it is simply because there is no need to do that.

[Tracy]

It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.

Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.

Spiritually, the Dalai Lama has no say in the matter in Karma Kagyu lineage. Every lineage has their own spiritual head. In Gelug lineage, the Dalai Lama is only one of the spiritual lineage, the highest authority is actually the Gaden Tripa, who is also known as the Lama Tsongkhapa on earth.

Therefore, it is very misleading to think the Dalai Lama is above all and everyone has to kow-tow to him. We have to respect him because he is a great Dharma teacher but that does not mean we have to follow his instructions.

Karmapa Thaye Dorje has done nothing wrong not to meet up with the Dalai Lama, he is not arrogant, it is simply because there is no need to do that.

The Dalai Lama has to stop meddling in the affair of other lineages. There are so many conflicts in Gelug lineage that he has to deal with in or to restore the harmony and unity in the lineage but he is not doing it. If the Dalai Lama does not want to look into the issues and solve them, it will affect Gelug lineage in the long run.

The two Karmapas have already met up which was a big breakthrough for Karma Kagyu lineage. The two Karmapas issue definitely was one of the topic they have discussed. If both are sincere in spreading Dharma, the title really does not matter. It does not take a Karmapa title to do things that are beneficial to people.

Gelugpas should follow the examples of the two Karmapas, resolve conflict in a civilised way especially the Dorje Shugden issue.

[dsnowlion]

Breaking news!

The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.

The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.

In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.

This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.

https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1

Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect. 

Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognised the baby Sharmapa!

[Tenzin K]

Breaking news!

The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.

The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.

In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.

This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.

https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1

Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect. 

Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognized the baby Sharmapa!

Great news! Indeed it shows Thaye Dorje is the right Karmapa and his recognition is by the tradition. This shows that the Karma Kargyu tradition is authentic and they don’t really need to listen to Dalai Lama and just follow their lineage practices. Dalai Lama should just respect other lineage’s tradition and stop interfering. All other lineages have been practiced for hundreds of years and their attained lamas have been returning for so many times to continue their work and their legacy.

[Tracy]

Breaking news!

The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.

The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.

In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.

This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.

https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1

Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect. 

Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognized the baby Sharmapa!

Great news! Indeed it shows Thaye Dorje is the right Karmapa and his recognition is by the tradition. This shows that the Karma Kargyu tradition is authentic and they don’t really need to listen to Dalai Lama and just follow their lineage practices. Dalai Lama should just respect other lineage’s tradition and stop interfering. All other lineages have been practiced for hundreds of years and their attained lamas have been returning for so many times to continue their work and their legacy.

I think in this case, both Karmapas are acknowledging each other as the real Karmapa. Both of them has jointly written the long life prayer for Sharmapa Rinpoche. It is interesting that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and the previous Sharmapa were not in good term but now Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is recognising the reincarnation of the Sharmapa.

It is possible that both Karmapas are real as high lamas have the capability to emanate into different forms or multiple individuals at the same time for the sake of all sentient beings. I wonder what will be the next explosive news, will the two Karmapas be enthroned in Rumtek Monastery?

[Ngawang]

Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?