Proof that the Sakyas Used to Solicit Dorje Shugden As A Buddha!

[Big Uncle]

Thanks to Godi who posted a link to an old antique Sakya Thangka of Dorje Shugden and here is the link again.
http://www.himalayanart.org/image.cfm/393.html

I took a closer look and found that Dorje Shugden is sitting upon a lion throne! (You have to zoom and scroll down to see) Doesn't that iconographically means he is a Buddha? So how can he be considered a worldly Protector when he is placed upon a throne? The lions symbolically represents the fearlessness of a Buddha. You don't see that everyday - a worldly Protector being placed upon a lion throne. Hence, unlike what the description say, the Sakyas must have considered him a fully enlightened Protector!  That's what we all know today....

The other proof, i found was the placement of Vaishravana/Namtose. Namtose is placed on the right and below Dorje Shugden's mandala and don't we all know Namtose belongs to the class of Protectors that are enlightened. Iconographical placement also represents the status of the deity. So what does this tell you? Dorje Shugden is enlightened! The end!

Now the question is why did the Sakyas - including the current Sakya Trizin call Dorje Shugden a harmful spirit when they have a history of propitiating Dorje Shugden as a Buddha?     ???
I have included the pictures below in case the website disappears....

[harrynephew]

hey Big Uncle,

now that u mention that he sits on the throne, I found this footage of Trode Khangsar, where Dorje Shugden's practice and blessings flow from. Look into the footage and you will see that there's a huge thangka in the chapel that has DS sitting on a huge throne too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehr8ePFyWoY
	Small | Large

He's no other than Buddha Manjugosha!

[Lee Dhi]

Dear Big Uncle, Thanks for highlighting the throne! It is so wonderful to see images that reinforces Dorje Shugden as an Enlightened Buddha. Although, in my heart he is the mightiest, the kindest, most generous, patient...and the list goes on and on...it is joyful to receive information as you share so that

There have been so much evidence that Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being including:

1) His direct lingeage to Lama Tsongkapa (images of thangkas from www.dorjeshugden(dot)com)
2) His previous incarnations of highly attained beings like Mahasiddha Biwawa, Duldzin Dragpa Gyaltsan, Panchen Sonam Dragpa and Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen. In fact, he is a recognized emanation of Buddha Manjushri himself.
* I received a teaching once as: DS is an emanation of Buddha Manjushri which means that they are of the same mindstream, same nature.
3) "Endorsement" by great Dharma Gurus who played a pivotal role for the flourishing of Tibetan Buddhism and Buddhadharma all over Tibet and the world: Dagpo Lama Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Trijang Rinpoche, Zong Rinpoche and many others.

Most importantly, the practice of Dorje Shugden in the past centuries has brought much benefit to sentient beings. One specific story is that of the Dalai Lama: it is told that the DS oracle gave Lobsang Yeshe specific instructions on the route to save HH (see YouTube video: Dorje Shugden saved Dalai Lama's life). Saving the Dalai Lama's life caused the flourishing of Dharma outside Tibet. How enlightened!

[diamond girl]

Dear Big Uncle, Harry Nephew and Lee Dhi,

Thank you so much for all your very informative and fact-finding comments and necessary links.  All the wealth of information available through the years and by many credible sources only proves AGAIN that Dorje Shugden is an ENLIGHTENED Dharma Protector.  And not some worldly protector or evil spirit.

Yet there are still cartoons who so adamantly claim Dorje Shugden is all evil and harmful.  All I can say is that when people are driven by the ego to be right they are so blinded from being objective and neutral to see the facts. Sad 

[dsnowlion]

No idea why the Sakya suddenly change their mind about Dorje Shugden seeing that they were the first to actually perpetuate DS. I reckon that it is non other then POLITICS! Does anybody know?

[honeydakini]

Many Sakya masters used to write praises or prayers to Dorje Shugden - it was very well known that they prayed to DS very strongly.

I found this on the dorje shugden history website: a nice account of a Sakya lama, Morchen Kunga Lhundrup, who relied on DS and also wrote about him in texts: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1654.html

I'm very interested to know of other praises or prayers to Dorje Shugden that were written by Sakya masters. Does anyone have any leads? I would really love to know more about their practice of DS and how they saw him (as an enlightened being, surely).

[emptymountains]

Also:

http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1705.html

and:

http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/among-shugden-texts-1871.html

[DharmaDefender]

No idea why the Sakya suddenly change their mind about Dorje Shugden seeing that they were the first to actually perpetuate DS. I reckon that it is non other then POLITICS! Does anybody know?

I don't think the Sakyas changed their minds about Dorje Shugden due to politics, because:

(1) if Dorje Shugden's practices causes their lineage to grow stronger, then why not keep propitiating him for the benefit of the Dharma?
(2) Dorje Shugden himself, and his practice, don't promote sectarianism and politics. I don't believe true practitioners of DS, whether Sakya or not, would've given up the practice because of politics (or perhaps that's just my naive POV!)

Check out emptymountain's links, they're quite useful (if a little lengthy!). I just want to quote something I found quite interesting (and a little amusing)...

Second, the essay The ‘Bhutan Abbot’ of Ngor: Stubborn Idealist with a Grudge Against Shugs-ldan by David Jackson illustrates that within the Sakya there was a prevalent number of followers of Shugden in the mid-20th century when an iconoclastic campaign was started by the Ngor abbot Ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho (1902-1956), because he believed that Shugden was a demon who had shortened the life of his preceding incarnation.19 This even led to a personal conflict between him and the preceding Ngor abbot,20 described below as being a Shugden follower:

The senior Khang-gsar abbot, Ngag-dbang-mkhyen-rab-'jam-dpal-snying-po (1871-1952) was a well-known devotee of Shugs-ldan. He was a skilled artisan, capable of making fine masks and images though he had never received formal training, and he had personally made a number of masks for the worship of Shugs-ldan. Both he and his late uncle mKhan-chen Ngag-dbang-blo-gros-snying-po visited Khams and established there in the 1890s in numerous monasteries the cult of Shugs-ldan.

Although David Jackson mentions that the Ngor abbot Ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho disliked Pabongkha Rinpoche’s propitiation of Dorje Shugden, the actual iconoclastic incidents mentioned in this account are limited to internal Sakya affairs. In fact, there is not a single mention of an incident of the Ngor abbot directly confronting Gelugpa Shugden followers. Thus, there is no visible sign of Dorje Shugden propitiation in the Gelug causing entanglements with the Sakya. Moreover, the internal struggle in the Sakya over Shugden, as mentioned in this account, was not based on sectarianism but rather taking issue with his fierce actions (i.e., the Ngor abbot blaming the premature death of his previous incarnation). Finally, this account does not mention a lot about the Ngor abbot confronting Dorje Shugden within the actual 'Khon family.

It seems what the Ngor abbot said about his previous incarnation been appropriated by current anti-Dorje Shugden people

[Midakpa]

Old thangkas and historical works in Tibetan provide evidence of early Dorje Shugden practice. It is important to highlight the fact that the Sakyas had a history of worshipping Dorje Shugden as a Buddha. This can be seen in the early thangkas and in the description of the Dharmapala by Sakya masters like Morchen Kunga Lhundrub who was considered to be an authority on consecration rituals which might have inspired later Gelugpa rituals.

The website on Himalayan Art has an interesting display of old thangkas of "worldly protectors". But they seem to have mixed up the mundane protectors with the supramundane protectors and the mountain gods. Also, many of the protectors have not been identified. Just a remark.

[honeydakini]

I am quite amused by the accusations that DS is sectarian and will harm all practitioners who follow any practices out of the Gelugpa lineage.... seeing as the sakyas have relied on him and, after all, the dalai lama has received and mixed teachings from other lineages as he was growing up also. d'uh - the reasons are just so illogical.

As the sakyas propitiated him for so many hundreds of years, why is it that no sakya lamas stand up to say, "hang on, we're not gelugpa and we've been praying to him but nothing bad has happened to our sakya high lamas and lineage?".

The discussion as to why they have also suddenly "switched" camps is a bit baffling. I.e. unlike some of the courageous Gelugpa monks who have stood up and started their own monasteries such as Serpom and Shar Gaden, we don't see that happening within the Sakya lineage - would anyone have any information on that?

[DSFriend]

I was trying to do some research and found the following

Here's a link to some writings by Jeff Watts http://vajrasana.org/jeff01.htm
 ..H.H. Sakya Trizin (of the Drolma Podrang) does not himself practice Shugden - this based on the instructions of his root guru...

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/
"...31st Sakya Throneholder, who was believed to have been an incarnation of Dorje Shugden..."

 How contradictory can this be...

[hope rainbow]

I was trying to do some research and found the following

Here's a link to some writings by Jeff Watts http://vajrasana.org/jeff01.htm
 ..H.H. Sakya Trizin (of the Drolma Podrang) does not himself practice Shugden - this based on the instructions of his root guru...

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/
"...31st Sakya Throneholder, who was believed to have been an incarnation of Dorje Shugden..."

 How contradictory can this be...

Contradiction seems to be the way to attract people's attention these days...
I just heard someone today who said this:

"it is characteristic of an ignorant mind to compare two things that are not know and understood correctly and falsely achieve an impression of knowledge by pointing out the apparent differences between them as faults."

[Zach]

Notice that the 4 other Shugdens are Included as well...When did they first appear ?

[Ensapa]

I was trying to do some research and found the following

Here's a link to some writings by Jeff Watts http://vajrasana.org/jeff01.htm
 ..H.H. Sakya Trizin (of the Drolma Podrang) does not himself practice Shugden - this based on the instructions of his root guru...

http://truthaboutshugden.wordpress.com/
"...31st Sakya Throneholder, who was believed to have been an incarnation of Dorje Shugden..."

 How contradictory can this be...

Based on the evidence provided by the links above, it seems that the sakyas really went all the way with the ban. The current Sakya Trinzin is said to be an incarnation of Apong Terton, as the previous Sakya Trinzin was unable to have a child and requested Apong Terton's help. Sure enough, after Apong Terton passed away, Sakya Wangmo (Sakya Trinzin's consort) got pregnant. If the current Sakya Trinzin is a Nyingma and he is against Dorje Shugden, that seems to only reaffirm the pattern that the Nyingmas are the most against Dorje Shugden because from the links given above, it is very clear that the Sakyas have removed almost all historical references to Dorje Shugden from their holy texts just to "appear" clean. They went as far as erasing the biographies of past masters from their texts who supported Dorje Shugden, because what else can explain the Sakya texts and references here?: http://www.dorjeshugdenhistory.org/ either that the author of the website has the incredible ability to fabricate all the stories, names, dates, places of the Sakya masters, or that he was able to procure the texts before the Sakyas erased them from their Dharma libraries. Erasure is the most probable as these masters are either not mentioned at all or most of their recorded statements are gone, especially on Dorje Shugden.

Now let us see how the Dalai Lama is implementing the ban: he is allowing it to be mentioned everywhere. He did not direct Ganden, Sera and Drepung to destroy historical evidence of Dorje Shugden in the history books the way Sakya Trinzin did. In fact, he highlighted them even more and discussed about them even more. Does anyone see the difference between someone who is really serious about the ban and someone who seems to be using the ban as a tool and who does not mean what they say or do to Dorje Shugden, but it is due to circumstances that they had to do what they did...this is proof. If the Dalai Lama was really serious about the ban, Dorje Shugden would have been wiped out from the history of Tibet and stories mentioning him omitted, and masters who supported him also erased from history, or what they said about him erased, the way the Sakyas did.

[Dondrup Shugden]

Besides Gelug the Sakyas also worshipped Dorje Shugden!!!! Interesting to know.  Even the Nyingmas do so?