Buddhism & DS Growing BIG in China - Thanks to Dalai Lama & Dorje Shugden?

[Vajraprotector]

In order to sabotage the Dalai Lama, China has been heavily promoting their own Tibetan Buddhism spiritual leader - Panchen Lama and also wish to create their own "Tibetan Buddhism" that is independent of the Dalai Lama or any current Tibetan monastic institutions. On the side, it is also likely that they will do things that go against the Dalai Lama- eg promoting Shugden practice. 


China has invested quite a lot (albeit for political reason) on building a spiritual leader & their own “Tibetan Buddhism” for China. They even invested $11.7 million to set up the first-ever academy of Tibetan Buddhism in the Tibet autonomous region in south western China. Construction on the $11.7 million project began in Oct 2008. The project located near Lhasa is being fully funded by the Central government in Beijing. The academy is being set up in Nyetang Town, Quxu County near the Tibetan capital of Lhasa in an area of 17.4 hectares.

(read: China to train cadre of Tibetan monks to counter Dalai- Saibal Dasgupta, TNN, Oct 18, 2008, http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-3613215,flstry-1.cms)

Dalai Lama being the “public enemy” and also world-renowned Buddhist icon/celebrity has also spur the interests of different group of Chinese:
-   those who are politically motivated / patriotic
-   those who are oblivious to Buddhism in the past, and
-   those who might be interested in Tibetan Buddhism because the world embraces Dalai Lama. 

These are some issues that might be interesting to look at:

1. PANCHEN LAMA TAKING THE LEAD
 The Chinese government has appointed the 11th Panchen Lama to the country’s top legislative advisory body. Also, the 11th Panchen Lama delivered a speech at the opening ceremony of the Second World Buddhist Forum in Wuxi City of eastern Jiangsu Province, winning applause and appreciation in March 2009.
We can foresee that the Panchen Lama will not only be the head of Tibetan Buddhism in China, he will also play a leading role in Chinese Buddhism in China & worldwide with his current elected position as Vice President of the Buddhist Association of China.  The world will listen to China & follow what China says.
In the long run, I think China doesn’t really care which “brand” of Tibetan Buddhism or Buddhism, or what practice grow, as long as it is all under control & follow the rules.


2. CHINA’S TIBETAN BUDDHISM GROWTH
While statistics are hard to come by, monks, followers and experts say that growing numbers of middle-class Chinese are turning to Tibetan Buddhism, driven by the perception of a spiritual vacuum in society and aided by the voluminous information available on the Internet. Communist Party officials and celebrities alike have embraced Tibetan Buddhism, despite having to worship at home, meet their lamas at night and run the risk of attending officially unauthorized events, such as the fish release and "fire sacrifice" at Huangsongyu Reservoir.

(From: In China, A Different Brand of Buddhism- Ethnic Han Turning To Tibetan Doctrine For Guidance; By Maureen Fan; Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, February 19, 2009
Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/02/18/ST2009021803418.html)


3. BUDDHISM IS PART OF IMPERIAL CHINESE’s ROOT/ HISTORY – A RENAISSANCE?
Buddhism is rooted in China, only that it suffered during the Cultural Revolution, hence it could be revived. Also, Chinese Buddhism is not surpressed in China.

Tibetan Buddhism has been practised by the Chinese emperors themselves, e.g the Emperor Qian Long, whose tutor was Changkya Rolpay Dorje.

The “success” of the Second World Buddhist Forum in the eastern Chinese city of Wuxi (more than 1,700 Buddhist monks and scholars from about 50 countries attended) shows the potential of a Buddhism renaissance if the Chinese decides to put the political “borders” at bay. The event was jointly organized by the Buddhist Association of China, the Buddha's Light International Association, the Hong Kong Buddhist Association, and the China Religious Culture Communication Association.

Hong Kong & Taiwan’s Tibetan Buddhism “culture” could influence mainland China once all these political matters are made less important.
 

This last point might be just a speculation, but it is my personal wish/dream that it happens so that the “haters” of Shugden Lamas could shut up 

4. SHUGDEN LAMAS/ ORGANISATIONS IN CHINA
Who was criticised by the TGIE for paying respect to the Panchen Lama? Hint hint: A Shugden lama!
It is possible that Dharma & DS practice will grow in China, bigger than ever, and perhaps the force behind this could be the Shugden Lamas.

For example, Gangchen Rinpoche as he has good relations with China and he’s a great supporter of DS.
Even if it’s not Gangchen Rinpoche, it is possible that any Shugden lama who establishes themselves well in China can make Dharma & Shugden big. It could be NKT penetrating China as they already establish a Kadampa Meditation Center in Hong Kong.

The closer ties between Taiwan & mainland China could make it easier for Taiwan to “export” their Tibetan Buddhism culture to mainland China – same language medium & cultural background. Their six-decade standoff between the two governments has improved since Ma Ying-jeou stepped in office.  And yes, we do have Shugden Lamas in Taiwan that  are establishing themselves and building DS temples, e.g. Tritul Rinpoche. 

It is quite unlikely for mainstream Tibetan lamas to establish themselves in China, because that would upset the TGIE & the Tibetan community at large or being called "Chinese spies". Also, their sponsors who are Pro-Tibetans might pull out. On the other hand, Shugden lamas are already listed as "enemies" and might have more appeal to China than lamas who are pro-Tibet.

[honeydakini]

I don't think it has to be so negative, and issues to do with China should not be so immediately brushed off as something negative or insulting.

Yes, it WAS a very difficult and painful situation for the tibetans and Gelugpa institutions and practitioners to be in - I don't even purport to understand a fraction of the suffering that they may have gone through. But this doesn't also doesn't mean that we should just automatically "switch off" when it comes to anything Chinese or China-related.

China wrecked havoc in Tibet, yes, but we mustn't forget that there are 1billion people living in China alone - they can't all be evil, Tibet-hating one-eyed monsters. I like VajraProtector's point that Buddhism used to be very strong in China and so much of the Buddhist practised in China finds its origins in Tibet. Could it be (gasp) that there may be many, many Chinese out there who still very much respect and sincerely wish to practise the religion and explore the practices of Buddhism more deeply?

I do not for a minute doubt that there probably ARE many insincere people in China who are riding on this ban to play their political cards and "get back" at the Dalai Lama etc ad nauseum. I wouldn't be surprised about that at all... but a bi-product of that is undoubtedly that religious institutions and practices are finding more room to grow and more people will be able to connect to the practices again.

It is not about promoting Dorje Shugden as a pop idol. No, it is not. But if we take a more positive thought, even if the "spread" of DS practice in China starts off as being somewhat politically motivated and insincere, it may and can still touch many who ARE sincere and will begin to practice. Remember that merely 1% of the Chinese population = 10 million Chinese people! Let's not talk about China/ Chinese / evil politics and all the rest of it. Let's just talk about the fact that THAT many more people and sentient beings can be exposed to the practices and teachings. It could be a doorway that opens to much bigger practice in the future, connecting the Chinese back to their incredibly rich spiritual and religious history before the cultural revolution.

[a friend]

Dearest Honeydakini, Vajraprotector and others concerned,

Trinley Kelsang is not talking about the Chinese government actions, he is talking about what he considers a lack of sensitivity and respect among those who started addressing the matter of the ban as if it were a device of the show biz.
I repeat what I already said: some people do not know what happened, do not even start to understand the consequences of what happened, insist in seeing personal hurt in what is a Dharma tragedy.
I think I understand the very good intentions behind your posts and other people´s posts and somehow I´ve come to terms with them.
But you have to understand that there is an involontary tone of frivolity, of superficiality, due to the lack of true knowledge about the matter, that is not easy to accept for those who do know. Again, do not write about personal sufferings on the part of those who know. Personal feelings are unimportant. Just remember that we are telling you: you do not fathom what happened, what was lost. So please have some consideration for people like the one being contradicted here, that does not talk much, does a lot, and is asking for respect of the matter of the ban itself.
What would you think of a person who comes to the house of bereaved parents that have lost their children and they come in all cheerful and enthousiastic and tell them: "yuhoo, rejoice, now you have space in your house to fill it with still more children"... Please think about this example.

[Vajraprotector]

Dear all,

I agree with a friend that some people do not know what happened, do not even start to understand the consequences of what happened. I admit I do not know how much pain, confusion, and the emotional turmoil that some people here might have experienced due to the ban and I apologise if I sounded like I try to downplay the ban either due to the lack of true knowledge about the matter or the tone of expressing my speculation of a more positive outcome out of this dark time.

In my attempt to learn more, I wish to explore other views and not just focus on criticising the Dalai Lama for his actions because I feel that will not elevate anybody or relieve the pain of people who have suffered. It will only promote anger and increase angst or disgust. I assure you that is my real motivation.

I respect the seniors here who have done a lot and I am sure have gone through much challenging time. In fact, I have learnt quite a lot by just joining this forum. I hope you’ll view my posts as intense interest to learn more and to see “the light at the end of the tunnel” instead of trying to undermine the ban.  I too wish this horrible ban can be lifted and that many practitioners, especially the monks, and those whose families are being attacked & ostracised can feel freedom once again and not feel betrayed.

I wish to learn more about this holy protector Dorje Shugden whom I have the great fortune to have connect with and I sincerely believe that DS will prevail in the near future. I look forward to learn more from all of you, who have stuck with DS practice with tenacity, especially during this time of much difficulties.

And to Trinleykalsang, I wish to thank you for sharing your view, which is very valid and informative. And I like your posts and your effort in sharing resources, e.g the one about the 16th Karmapa, and many others, that has shed light and increase my faith in this protector that I barely knew much about. I hope you'll not feel insulted and do continue to share more posts and resources because they will benefit many people, especially new people like me.

[dsnowlion]

Dear all,

Everyone discussing on this thread has very good and valid reasons for how they feel and view things through experience. However we cannot always dwell on past experiences but to learn and rise above it. This is samsara, and will always be people disappointing us so long as we have a projection/expectation on them. That is my little knowledge I learnt from Dharma.

I like honeydakini's point of view for it gives a more positive light to the situation at hand and perhaps more "hope" for Dharma to grow and to benefit more people who will desperately need them as materialism grow and depression sets in. However, I also a agree that it should not be taken as some kind of justification and right for what the Dalai Lama and TGIE has done. That's not a good excuse but the comfort in which I can take in is that Dorje Shugden practice being promoted in China will lead to more freedom for everyone to practice openly and without fear, hence Lama Tsongkhapa's pure teachings to spread - this is something to look forward to, to rejoice.

I've always been told by my Guru that Dorje Shugden's practice is only effective if done with the right motivation for He is an enlightened protector. So if it is spread in China and they practice Dorje Shugden well, I do not doubt that the Chinese's people will be able to infuse some spirituality into their materialistic minds and they become better people. Perhaps this may be a naive thing for me to think ... but if not then why do we become spiritual at all? So I think that is a genuine cause for anyone to practice - to better humans first - to be more kind, honest, patient, generous etc in our daily lives first before we can even jump to say gain enlightenment which is of course the eventual ultimate reason. And I guess this is very much required in China as they are one of the superpower nations that is shaping our future each day. I believe the more they start to learn and practice Dharma, the better the chance for them to be better people. Dharma can change their lives.

Honestly I don't particularly like China Chinese and I don't trust them. But never the less Buddha gave teachings for everyone not just to the "goodies" but even to the maras and those being in Hell. In fact I think they need it more then any of us.

I've heard a story of a Lama who when visiting China was stalked by some Chinese mafias. Their job was killing people - that was what they practice and that's what they were good at. But after following this monk for a few days, stalking him and listening to his Dharma teachings, their whole mind set changed. Instead of stalking the Lama, they decided to become the Lama's bodyguards while he was in China. They took refuge with this Lama on the last day and have even taken the vow of NOT KILLING! This is inspiring, and this is what I mean Dharma can change lives, can help people be better human beings.

So I'll leave politics aside for awhile and try to look on the brighter side in the light of Dharma. May there be more peace, more harmony, more happiness, more prosperity (inner and outer) in everybody's lives! ...before it all disappear one day.

[Lineageholder]

I hope you’ll view my posts as intense interest to learn more and to see “the light at the end of the tunnel” instead of trying to undermine the ban.

I don't think it helps to develop a 'rosy' view of the ban because this simply helps the Dalai Lama's case and gets him off the hook.  It also implies that no-one has to do anything to undermine the ban because it's all part of the plan and Dorje Shugden's got it all under control.  I think such optimism is naive, given the tremendously destructive nature of the ban as Trinley Kalsang has said.

Why wouldn't someone want to undermine the ban?  I can't see the logic in this at all.  I don't believe for one minute that the Dalai Lama is about to say "oh, sorry, silly me, of course I was wrong - let's undo all the damage" - again, this is naive optimism.  The Dalai Lama won't undo the ban unless he's shamed into it by the world seeing what's going on and how the Dalai Lama's actions are contradictory to the present view of him as a purveyor of peace, which is what the WSS is trying to do.  

I believe that without action, there is no "light at the end of the tunnel". I know you don't accept this, but I believe this action to undermine the ban is meaningful and helpful.

[Middleway]

I also think we need to be able to discriminate between 'views that make us feel good' & 'positive views'. Of course a positive view will always make us feel good where our wisdom is clear, but sometimes we hold onto unwise views because they alow us to avoid facing truths our attachment does not want to face. The temporary release from suffering they then provide 'feels good' & so we think it is wise. I see this a lot in regards to people's aversions to activities opposing the ban. It feels good to find reasons to not have to actively oppose it, or to find ways of opposing it that don't go against our attachment to external peace & quiet. Maybe people here don't have this problem, but I do think it's something each of us has to check thoroughly in our own mind.

[Middleway]

To what extent is this another high lama getting involved in politics? That preceding post is unclear about what exactly he'll be doing in his role. Though some of the things he addressed in his speech at The World Buddhist Furum remind me of the sort of things the DL likes to spend his time addressing. 

[harrynephew]

I think we need to see Panchen Lama's role in China as sort of an advisory and supportive role in that nation. His Holiness' disposition in this life time is really different from his previous as he hasn't got the upper hand of things(yet).

Once he wins the nation's faith and admiration, things will change. I can tell one thing for sure is that Tibetan Buddhism is winning many many of the Chinese nation's heart due to the fact that not only it is intellectually challenging for them but it also fills in the gaps which are missing in their lives.

China is growing to be more of a nation loved country and with its millions of people, there will sure be a demand for spirituality, especially Tibetan Buddhism.

I pray for the revival of Je Tsongkhapa's doctrine in the hearts of these people who are in need for your Dharma of the unmistaken path to Enlightenment my Lord. Please grant all these people their wish.

sarva mangalam
HN

[Lee Dhi]

Dear Vajraprotector, TrinleyKalsang and others who posted.
Firstly, I wish to express my gratitude for the learning gained through reading the constructive debate and sharing of points of view on this forum. It is also very inspiring to experience the deep care and sincere desire displayed by everyone in their posts. THANK YOU!!!
I would like to contribute the little I know about individuals in China who have sincere desire to learn PURE Dharma and practice it in their daily lives. The Chinese are so deprived of spirituality and the recent boom in their material progress has developed this vacuum in their souls that they are beginning to discover. This leads to their adventure into learning about Buddhism and, for some, specific interest in Tibetan Buddhism due to 1) its rapid and successful growth worldwide and 2) the history of Tibetan Buddhism in China.
Like the Japanese and Germans who still experience the shame of the cruelty their previous leaders created in the 1930s to 1940s, some Chinese individuals (although not all) feel a similar shame. They recognize that their government has done things that are against human rights, not only to other nations but also to their own (as we know, many Chinese nationals suffered under the Red Guards). However, they are not able to openly express this. Therefore, in my experience, the Chinese are starting to develop an understanding about Tibetan Buddhism by, as a start, viewing the religion to be separate from politics (to avoid any internal conflict of patriotism and truth). These individuals encounter obstacles in their effort to develop full understanding about Tibet and Tibetan Buddhism because the information they are given are filtered and controlled by the authorities. Example: facebook, youtube, many websites (including this one) are inaccessible to them.
I am not justifying that what happened in Tibet is OK and it is not my intention to slight the injustice and suffering experienced by the Tibetans (I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone). My motive to share the above is to ask for a moment of consideration for the common Chinese individual: they deserve a chance to liberation and enlightenment too.
Besides the above reason, having Tibetan Buddhism and Dharma grow in China will bring great benefits to the Buddhadharma, the world and sentient beings in the near future. Currently, China has great influence (power) over the world economically and politically. At this moment, they may be using this power for the benefit of a very limited group of people. However, if Dharma is to touch more Chinese people of influence: open up their Dharma seed and have the seed grow, imagine the good this affect can have on the world. If America can give Tibetan Buddhism such fantastic growth in the last 4 decades, I would imagine the impact China can have will only be more for the next 4 decades.  Maybe, with pure Dharma at heart, not only will Tibet and its people gain freedom from suffering one day, other nations that are at war today will have the same good fortune. This will not happen overnight, but as people of Dharma, let’s take the first step.
Buddha asks us to practice Dharma for the benefit of all sentient beings of the 6 realms. This is a great opportunity for us to do so.
Again, with this being a sensitive matter, I want to thank you for reading and ask for your patience with my expression if any offense was made.
May Dharma grow in places where there is no Dharma and increase in place where the seeds have open. Most importantly, in the case of China, may all misunderstandings of pure Dharma be corrected with sincere efforts of Dharma upholders.

[diamond girl]

Dear All,

Reading all that everyone has posted here has been very constructive. The exchange of views and points has been  factual, passionate and compelling. My knowledge is still growing and I am grateful to have read all that is said here. Thank you to ALL of you.

I agree with Lee Dhi on her points about the Chinese. The speed and size which they have grown as a nation will definitely leave millions lost in the soul. Chasing materialistic needs and economical advancements leaves no time for spiritual growth. All fast-paced nations have this similar problem which is why they will resort to religion/spirituality at some point when there is decay in human kindness. So, like the Western world which developed earlier, the essence of spirituality is seeked and grows as part of the balance of living. On this note, with China, they will one day want to fill the spiritual vacuum, we as Dharma practitioners should pave the way for them now and not when they think they need it, it may be too late and too much sadness resulted. As all things have progressed, the practice of Dharma too should be progressive and pro-active and be available to all beings. We can make it happen.

We should not void nor underplay the pains and sufferings of many with the DS ban. And, we should not overplay a "rosy-feel-good picture" of the future for this practice. Understanding the past is important and having hope for the future is equally necessary. I do see great possibility for the spread of DS in China as one practice for their spiritual growth. Not all but only 1% of China's population adopting this practice is millions  of lives benefitting. In no way to offend anyone, but perhaps the politics in this case of China can actually be a cause of this practice to grow. Please do not misunderstand my statement here, I am not saying that politics and religion should mix.

At the end of it, all said and done, we all want the practice of Dorje Shugden to spread across all boundaries, nations and all sentient beings!         

[dsnowlion]

1. Watch this video extracted from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=81

Monastery with Dorje Shugden in Chamdo, Tibet This monastery in Tibet is HUGE!
Jampa Ling in located in Chamdo, Tibet. It was built by Lord Tsongkhapa’s disciple in 1444. It has 12 dratsangs (schools) and there used to be 5000 monks during its prime. It is surrounded by many small chapels, and is especially famous for its annual “Lama Dance”.


2. Watch this excellent video on Dorje Shugden produced by Denma Gonsa Rinpoche’s Monastery (dual language – Tibetan and Mandarin)
In Tibetan language: extracted from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=490


Since Tibet is part of China now... I guess many Chinese will definitely be exposed one way or another to Dorje Shugden practices.

May Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings continues to flourish to bring us out of the darkness of samsara!

[Geronimo]

The Bodichitta generates swirls of whirling Love is Fantastic!

From My Heart to Yours!

We'll just keep passing it around,
Until all the Love contained Inside,
Explodes As a Love Bomb!

Too Cool!

We are on a Roll!

I see the End coming soon,
I can feel it in my bones.

Lighter and Brighter

After Decades of Despair
After Centuries of Repression

Dorje Shugden is Ringing the Bell
His Vajra Is Kicking Us to Incredible Heights
Dorje Shugden & His Complete Retinue
Remember to come back!
Come back,
Continue to bring the dharma
Continue to Help All the Sentient Beings
To Rise And Shine!

thankyou  tk!

[LosangKhyentse]

Dear Thom,

This is a great post. Thank you so much. I have started another thread on it because more ppl should see this.

You always have great posts and educational too.

Much appreciated,

TK

[Vajraprotector]

Dear Lhakpa Gyaltshen,

I too look forward to the day where

"Dorje Shugden is Ringing the Bell
His Vajra Is Kicking Us to Incredible Heights"

and "Dorje Shugden & His Complete Retinue
Remember to come back!
Come back,
Continue to bring the dharma
Continue to Help All the Sentient Beings
To Rise And Shine!"

Perhaps all that we have discussed "the bigger picture", the WSS' role - whether they are contributor or have made the conflict worse, whether Dalai Lama is the angel or demon, it really doesn't matter when the ban is lifted.

Thank you for reminding us to look forward to this day.