Author Topic: the yellow book  (Read 21625 times)

honeydakini

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the yellow book
« on: March 07, 2010, 04:49:53 PM »
I'd like to ask if anyone can please share a little more information about this yellow book.

Pardon me for being so naive but why would Trijang Rinpoche on the one hand praise and write extensive commentaries to Dorje Shugden as being an enlightened being and object of refuge, and then on the other, talk about how he discourages DS practitioners from following Nyingma teachings and will punish them in very painful ways? It is a huge contradiction?

I have great respect for Trijang Rinpoche and his teachings but this is a bit of a blot for me which I cannot understand.

How accurate are these accounts that were published by Zemey Rinpoche and what was the context in which the teachings were presented? Can someone please explain a little more?

emptymountains

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 12:20:53 AM »
Dear Honey-la,

This blog post I wrote a while back is a short, humble attempt to address part of your question:

http://dharmaprotector.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/trijang-rinpoche-on-dorje-shugden/

a friend

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2010, 04:19:45 AM »

Because the Dalai Lama does not want the Gelug school to survive, he wants to merge it with other schools.
He perfectly knows that Je Tsongkhapa adopted and incorporated all the transmissions from the other schools that were valuable for us to practice. So if we follow our lineage we are in fact practicing already from the other traditions, but not everything: that what was deemed perfect by our Guru, Mañjushri Tsongkhapa.
So why wanting today to destroy what our Lord Tsongkhapa, the Buddha of Wisdom emanated in human form, so painstakingly created as a system for us to practice, after years and years of listening to Gentle Voice, studying all the Masters from India and Tibet, contemplating and meditating? Why?
Well, the Dalai Lama wants to create his own school, he abandoned the purity of our holy lineage ... good luck! Those who want to follow him, go ahead and follow him.
But do not force those who want to keep pure such unfathomable treasury of Dharma to give up on it.

There are still some people who want to follow their Gurus, who want to follow the teachings of Mañjushri Tsongkhapa, believe it or not. I know, it sounds unbelievable.

honeydakini

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2010, 05:21:10 PM »
Dear Honey-la,

This blog post I wrote a while back is a short, humble attempt to address part of your question:

http://dharmaprotector.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/trijang-rinpoche-on-dorje-shugden/


Dear EM,
thank you for sharing your link - I appreciate it very much and I really like what you posted. may I have permission to re-quote it here on this forum as I think many would benefit from reading it. I would credit it to your blog of course.

I agree with the points that just because we focus single-pointedly in one tradition, it does not mean we are being sectarian. If that was the case, then the same could be said for all other traditions - Sakya, Nyingma, Kagyu, Theravadans, Zen, Chinese Mahayana etc - who focus solely on their traditions.

I like this:

"On the surface, then, it sounds like Melodious Drum is explicitly saying that some non-Gelug teachings are “incomplete” and “false.” This would mean that non-Gelug paths are incomplete paths, which goes against everything I have been saying about there being “one truth, many paths” in Buddhism. I would challenge this interpretation by saying that those non-Gelug teachings are incomplete only insofar as they do not complete the Gelug presentation, which is to say nothing of their place in other traditions. It is a relative judgement, not an absolute one."

(sorry, I have gone quoting from your blog already without your permission - please forgive me! i like this explanation very much!)

The only way I can understand the yellow book and its odd place in this whole situation is that everything was taken hugely and massive out of context and skewed. What still puzzles me though is why Zemey Rinpoche thought to publish this and what the motivation was behind this? Any one have any ideas?

Alexis Ball

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2010, 06:16:42 PM »
Thank you emptymountains for the link.

It is rather depressing and infuriating to read that where things are today divided in our school of thoughts, hence, practice. "One Truth, Many Paths" is diversely interpreted and endorsed with subtle deviations by different teachers and practitioners. Reading this link, made me understand that Buddha's original teachings were simple and non-divisive. Yet, there are different schools of thought with their respective individual interpretations and the desire to be better and more "right" than the other.

Perhaps, I may be idealistic. Isn't this all about the basic human need to have faith in something bigger than our mundane beliefs? Does not faith and hope lead us to pursue truth - the truth to lead our lives to be bigger and better than for self but for others. If our motivation is this simple and pure, it does not matter what faith we choose but the eventual result of attaining the truth to be better people so that the people around us can benefit from us and be better people. If this could spread like a plague than there might be peace in this world. Unfortunately, good things do not spread as fast as bad things.

The bottom line is what do we want to achieve spiritually? And does it matter which way is "right"?

Big Uncle

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 09:39:07 PM »
This is a fascinating thread as it covers a subject that not many people would dare touch or explain. What I know is that the Yellow Book covers cautionary tales of Gelug Lamas who had mixed the teachings of Gelug lineage with that of other lineages - specifically mentioned is Nyingma and met with untimely death due to the wrath of Dorje Shugden.

I think that Dorje Shugden really did cause their deaths but his motivation was to protect the Gelug tradition as the Lamas who were mixing the practices, were in the position to spread this tainted lineage and the blessings of Lama Tsongkhapa would be lost. The Gelug tradition in itself is already the synthesis of the best teachings of the three traditions and unless we have the ocean-like wisdom of Lama Tsongkhapa, I don't think anybody is in the position to mix teachings and propagate it and the recipient of this lineage will gain attainments and if they do, is it as swiftly as those who practice Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition? (Thanks to Manjushri's blessings)

On top of that, I don't really think Dorje Shugden really harm these Lamas because if they are real Lamas, they would return anyway and even if they can't, I am sure Dorje Shugden would eject them to a pure realm or a good rebirth.

On top of that, if we look in the Tantric tradition, there are many Tantras that have wrathful rituals to kill! I am not kidding! I am reading a book on the Tara Tantras and even amongst the gentle Tara Tantras, there are records of wrathful but extinct rituals to kill - with Bodhichitta motivation of course. The famous Ra Lotsawa was said to have used extinct Yamantaka rituals to eliminate his foes that were threatening his life and endangering the precious teachings he held. 

Now, back to the yellow book, I don't think Dorje Shugden nor his trustworthy assistant - Karche Marpo will ever kill us just because we pick up a book on Guru Rinpoche's life story or Dharma teachings from a Nyingma, Sakya or Kagyu Guru. Heck, even if we forsake our Guru and run to a Nyingma master, he won't do anything but probably show signs of disapproval.
 


LosangKhyentse

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 12:41:25 AM »

 
He perfectly knows that Je Tsongkhapa adopted and incorporated all the transmissions from the other schools that were valuable for us to practice. So if we follow our lineage we are in fact practicing already from the other traditions, but not everything: that what was deemed perfect by our Guru, Mañjushri Tsongkhapa.


Excellent! Absolutely Excellent. Je Tsongkapa's lineage is the synthesis of all that was unbroken, extremely effective, and pure that was still existent during His lifetime. Je Tsongkapa gathered them together after examining the purity of them by debate, comparison, practice to make sure they are authentic. He made it easy for all of us. I would never want to abandon this lineage labelled 'Gelug' but in reality all the Buddha's perfect teachings tested and confirmed authentic rolled into one. Thank you A Friend for your summary. Thrilling to read. You really are a friend and our friend. Thank you always for your inputs.

TK



Robert Thomas

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 10:01:46 AM »
With respect to the yellow book, I think its important to bear in mind what Geshe Kelsang pointed out, which is that these are a collection of stories. They are not Buddha's teachings but stories, true or just folk lore we can't say. As he said, and as the post of TK re the Pehar Gyalpo shows, there are many such stories concering all the protectors. Any conclusion drawn from them should be understood to be drawn from just that, stories. Of course a skillful lineage master may use these stories to help their students, but on their own they should not be seen as anything more than stories - they are not Buddha's speech, not part of the Gaden doctrine.

Midakpa

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 03:48:08 PM »
Dear Big Uncle,

Thank you for your clear explanation of the subject and for pointing out the danger of mixing teachings. Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition is perfect and is indeed "the synthesis of the best teachings of the three traditions". Therefore, mixing the teachings, unless we are enlightened beings, would be like polluting what is already PURE. Dorje Shugden's commitment is to protect Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings but as a Buddha, he will not harm anyone, not even those who break their guru samaya. But he will not let them harm the teachings. The yellow book helps to remind people of the wrong action of mixing teachings.

honeydakini

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 10:44:53 PM »
NOT that I agree with this view, but this is something sort of interesting I found. It's just interesting to learn of this point of view, whereby academics etc take the view that it is not Dalai Lama's policies that are harmful but the "exclusivistic" politics/policies of the Gelugpas themselves which is causing the conflict. Pish, I say. In that case, the same could be said of any other sect or school of Buddhism that chooses to focus "exclusively" on the teachings within their school. Ironic too really - as A Friend has pointed out - since the very basis and strength of Gelug teachings is the fact that they are the combined, synthesised essence of all three schools.


~~~~
According to Kay, “whilst the conservative elements of the Gelug monastic establishment have often resented the inclusive and impartial policies of the Dalai Lamas towards revival Tibetan Buddhist traditions, the Dalai Lama has in turn rejected exclusivism on the grounds of that encourages sectarian disunity and thereby harms the interests of the Tibetan state.” Thus the Dalai Lamas have spoken out against what he saw as spiritually harmful as well as nationally damaging. Especially during Tibet’s present political circumstance, the present Dalai Lama felt the urge to speak against Dorje Shugden practice. In sum the Dalai Lama’s main criticisms of Shugden practice is that the "practice fosters religious intolerance and harms the Tibetan cause and unity".
There are different political interpretations of that conflict.

In the context of the Tibetan history Kay states: "The political policies of the Dalai Lamas have also been informed by this inclusive orientation. It can be discerned, for example, in the Great Fifth's (1617-82) leniency and tolerance towards opposing factions and traditions following the establishment of Gelug hegemony over Tibet in 1642; in the Great Thirteenth's (1876-1933) modernist-leaning reforms, which attempted to turn Tibet into a modern state through the assimilation of foreign ideas and institutions (such as an efficient standing army and Western-style education); and in the Fourteenth Dalai Lama's promotion of egalitarian principles and attempts to 'Maintain good relations among the various traditions of Tibetan religion in exile' (Samuel 1993: 550).

This inclusive approach has, however, repeatedly met opposition from others within the Gelug tradition whose orientation has been more exclusive. The tolerant and eclectic bent of the Fifth Dalai Lama, for example, was strongly opposed by the more conservative segment of the Gelug tradition. These 'fanatic and vociferous Gelug churchmen' (Smith 1970: 16) were outraged by the support he gave to Nyingma monasteries, and their 'bigoted conviction of the truth of their own faith' (Smith 1970: 21) led them to suppress the treatises composed by more inclusively orientated Gelug lamas who betrayed Nyingma, or other non-Gelug, influences. Similary, the Thirteenth Dalai Lama's political reforms were thwarted by the conservative element of the monastic segment which feared that modernisation and change would erode its economic base and the religious basis of the state. His spiritually inclusive approach was also rejected by contemporaries such as Pabongkha Rinpoche (1878-1943)
As with his predecessors, the current Dalai Lama's open and ecumenical approach to religious practice and his policy of representing the interests of all Tibetans equally, irrespective of their particular traditional affiliation, has been opposed by disgruntled Gelug adherents of a more exclusive orientation. This classical inclusive/exclusive division has largely been articulated within the exiled Tibetan Buddhist community through a dispute concerning the status and nature of the protective deity Dorje Shugden.”

Another view looking to the present situation is: “it has been suggested that the Dalai Lama, in rejecting Dorje Shugden, is speaking out against a particular quasi-political factions within the Gelug tradition-in-exile who are opposed to his modern, ecumenical and democratic political vision, and who believe that the Tibetan government” “should champion a fundamentalist version of Tibetan Buddhism as a state religion in which the dogmas of the Nyingmapa, Kagyupa, and Sakyapa schools are heterodox and discredited.” According to this interpretation, Dorje Shugden has become a political symbol for this “religious fundamentalist party”. From this point of view, the rejection of Dorje Shugden should be interpreted "not as an attempt to stamp out a religious practice he disagrees with, but as a political statement". According to Sparham: "He has to say he opposes a religious practice in order to say clearly that he wants to guarantee to all Tibetans an equal right to religious freedom and political equality in a future Tibet."

Dreyfus argues that although the political dimension forms an important part of that dispute it does not provide an adequate explanation for it. He traces back the conflict more on the exclusive/inclusive approach and maintains that to understand the Dalai Lama’s point of view one has to consider the complex ritual basis for the institution of the Dalai Lamas, which was developed by the Great Fifth and rests upon "an eclectic religious basis in which elements associated with the Nyingma tradition combine with an overall Gelug orientation". This involves the promotion and practices of the Nyingma school. The 5th Dalai Lama was criticized by and was treated in a hostile manner by conservative elements of the Gelug monastic establishment for doing this and for supporting Nyingma practitioners. The same happened when the 14th Dalai Lama started to encourage the devotion to Padmasambhava, central to the Nyingmas, and when he introduced Nyingma rituals at his personal Namgyal Monastery (Dharmasala, India). Whilst the 14th Dalai Lama started to encourage the devotion to Padmasambhava for the purpose of unifying the Tibetans and "to protect Tibetans from danger", the "more exclusively orientated segments of the Gelug boycotted the ceremonies", and in that context the sectarian Yellow Book was published.


a friend

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2010, 03:37:59 AM »

Ignorant people repeating as holy immaculate truth the calumnies from Dharamsala.
Well, re-writing history in favor of their whims has always been the privilege of absolutists
when they are in power.
What´s new under the sun?


emptymountains

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 08:47:32 AM »
"But he's the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism" they think...  :-\

harrynephew

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2010, 12:13:13 PM »
The very first "official" thing the Dalai Lama said in 1978 was not a recusal from sectarian favoritism to settle an alleged sectarian rift.  Instead it was a *personal* statement of how the previous Dalai Lama's had no relation with Dorje Shugden, and that when he was about to ask Trijang Rinpoche for Life Entrustment Nechung stopped him.  Fine, he is allowed to decide a course of action on that based on his divinations or whatever.  But the fact is he *personalized* this and banned it based on this, and used all of the other minor things as an excuse to impose his ideological not only to his office and the TGIE, but to the monasteries in India.  That is exactly the crux of the issue that no scholar has dared acknowledge yet.

interesting that HHDL's decision for Life Entrustment is intercepted by a protective worldly spirit...  found another hole!
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Vajraprotector

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 03:04:30 AM »
The very first "official" thing the Dalai Lama said in 1978 was not a recusal from sectarian favoritism to settle an alleged sectarian rift.  Instead it was a *personal* statement of how the previous Dalai Lama's had no relation with Dorje Shugden, and that when he was about to ask Trijang Rinpoche for Life Entrustment Nechung stopped him.  Fine, he is allowed to decide a course of action on that based on his divinations or whatever.  But the fact is he *personalized* this and banned it based on this, and used all of the other minor things as an excuse to impose his ideological not only to his office and the TGIE, but to the monasteries in India.  That is exactly the crux of the issue that no scholar has dared acknowledge yet.

I think to HHDL's stand to oppose a religious practice in order to guarantee to all Tibetans an equal right to religious freedom and political equality (eliminating sectarianism) in a future Tibet doesn't make sense.
Because it is suppressing a practice (now) and there's no religious freedom and political equality already for DS practitioners as of now.

Middleway

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Re: the yellow book
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 09:55:15 AM »

I think to HHDL's stand to oppose a religious practice in order to guarantee to all Tibetans an equal right to religious freedom and political equality (eliminating sectarianism) in a future Tibet doesn't make sense.
Because it is suppressing a practice (now) and there's no religious freedom and political equality already for DS practitioners as of now.


but:

DS practitioners aren't even Buddhist so this is just a 'cleansing'

HHDL is the head of everything.

HHDL is Chenrezig so he's doing this out of compassion...

& so many other wonderfully precise & valid arguments that are held on to with balanced, considered & reasonable minds...